Conspiracy Theory Becomes Fact: Oil Collapse Is All About Crushing Russian Control Over Syria

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Terrorists attack civilians to make a political statements.

So you`re going to call the Ukrainian government terrorists, I`m fine with that, but than it also should be no problem if some refer to them as Junta.

The Ukrainian government are attacking rebels, not civilians. As with any armed conflict, civilian casualties are an unfortunate reality. The rebels have been responsible for their share of civilian deaths as well. To call a government "terrorists" because they're attacking rebels is completely disingenuous and once again you're putting words in my mouth.

what are you talking about? civilians have been targeted kilometers behind the front lines of battle. the Ukrainians have just in the past week attacked a church and a hospital, again kilometers away from where any separatists were fighting.

Got a source? I'd like to see that. Also before you do anything, remember that RT doesn't count as a source. RT has been outed as blatant Russian propaganda numerous times so I don't trust anything I read on that site.

What do you consider a reputable source? Granted rt does push crap but no more than any western media source.

I'd accept a source that has other sources to back it up. Like a report from multiple media outlets (not necessarily western, as they can tend to push their own agenda as well), or a report with supporting photo or video that hasn't been proven as taken out of context or faked.

Therein lies the problem, you won't get any western media backed by the other side and vice versa. You are not going to accept any source that you feel is crap and either is the other side. So to poo poo something whether you agree with the source or not is nonsense. Most of the times the actual events reported happened but because it is not reported by a source people like they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Very closed minded

Even if it was originally reported by RT, I'd accept it if the story was corroborated by a separate source as well. Such as Al-Jazeera, BBC, or even certain reputable independent news agencies. (Not The Blaze or Infowars, I mean.)

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Russia isn`t interested in a country with nationalists who have been trained by Western Mercenaries to fight a guerrilla warfare.

The whole game plan is for Russia to take the bait, go in, and get stuck in another Afghanistan like war where the nationalists take the role as Moudjahidine and Russia its economy takes a drain so it can be bankrupted just like the 80s.

Russia already in with half of the NAF troops being either Russian volunteers or vacationing soldiers. 100K mobilization requirment of NAF will be mostly filled by Russians also. Russia need not get in battle in the formal sense. It just needs to keep on upgrading the resources of NAF to beat UA out of Novorossiya provinces.

Much needed are the aviation assets that can help NAF conduct bombing runs on UA artillery and thus save human soldiers from having to run a full frontal assault.

According to one popular blog (pro Russian) upto 650 NAFs were killed in airport fight vrs 1800 on the Junta side. 650 is a huge number to take just the airport. NAF command needs to be intelligent about things. They should have pummled airport buildings with incendiary artillery shells and put buildings on fire. These building would have been destroyed.............which they were eventually but lives of soldiers and huge amounts of ammo would have been saved.

Now in Debtalsevo battle NAF is using the tactics of destroying any building that bring in the fire on them. That is more efficient than stopping in and fighting for one building for half a day and losing soldiers and ammo.

Kiev Junta should pull back and end this war. They cannot win against Russia and are making common people suffer as a result. Idiots in power like Bush II doing Iraq 2003 are very bad for common people of all sides.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

The Ukrainian government are attacking rebels, not civilians. As with any armed conflict, civilian casualties are an unfortunate reality. The rebels have been responsible for their share of civilian deaths as well.

All they do is attack civilians, and because Western media has gone dead silent on it, it doesn`t mean that hasn`t been going on...YouTube is loaded with videos with proof of it.

Every day you can read up on this kinds of stories as long as you`re willing to read "biased" sources...I know, it`s getting a bit used to have countries which have press who actual show what goes on in a war unlike the censorship we have seen with for example the Iraq War.

Hospital shelled in Ukraine's rebel Donetsk, multiple casualties reported

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Terrorists attack civilians to make a political statements.

So you`re going to call the Ukrainian government terrorists, I`m fine with that, but than it also should be no problem if some refer to them as Junta.

The Ukrainian government are attacking rebels, not civilians. As with any armed conflict, civilian casualties are an unfortunate reality. The rebels have been responsible for their share of civilian deaths as well. To call a government "terrorists" because they're attacking rebels is completely disingenuous and once again you're putting words in my mouth.

what are you talking about? civilians have been targeted kilometers behind the front lines of battle. the Ukrainians have just in the past week attacked a church and a hospital, again kilometers away from where any separatists were fighting.

Got a source? I'd like to see that. Also before you do anything, remember that RT doesn't count as a source. RT has been outed as blatant Russian propaganda numerous times so I don't trust anything I read on that site.

What do you consider a reputable source? Granted rt does push crap but no more than any western media source.

I'd accept a source that has other sources to back it up. Like a report from multiple media outlets (not necessarily western, as they can tend to push their own agenda as well), or a report with supporting photo or video that hasn't been proven as taken out of context or faked.

Therein lies the problem, you won't get any western media backed by the other side and vice versa. You are not going to accept any source that you feel is crap and either is the other side. So to poo poo something whether you agree with the source or not is nonsense. Most of the times the actual events reported happened but because it is not reported by a source people like they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Very closed minded

Even if it was originally reported by RT, I'd accept it if the story was corroborated by a separate source as well. Such as Al-Jazeera, BBC, or even certain reputable independent news agencies. (Not The Blaze or Infowars, I mean.)

Plenty of people won't including your hero you were bigging up earlier in the thread. Don't be so quick to tell anyone that you don't want rt because the actual event could have indeed happened but sometimes is not reported by western media because it doesn't fit their narrative. If someone was to post something from BBC would you say no?

a reply to: noeltrotsky

You might want to read up on the T&C of this site.

a reply to: sosobad

Considering the "sources" people have used to support their claims are in fact blogs I don't see anything to support the claims made.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

The Ukrainian government are attacking rebels, not civilians. As with any armed conflict, civilian casualties are an unfortunate reality. The rebels have been responsible for their share of civilian deaths as well.

All they do is attack civilians, and because Western media has gone dead silent on it, it doesn`t mean that hasn`t been going on...YouTube is loaded with videos with proof of it.

Every day you can read up on this kinds of stories as long as you`re willing to read "biased" sources...I know, it`s getting a bit used to have countries which have press who actual show what goes on in a war unlike the censorship we have seen with for example the Iraq War.

Hospital shelled in Ukraine's rebel Donetsk, multiple casualties reported

Are you honestly suggesting they ignore the rebels and just attack civilians? Because even RT reports rebel casualties. Again you're being disingenuous.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: noeltrotsky

You might want to read up on the T&C of this site.

Awwww....did you forget how to report something you don't like? Poor S**ll

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: sosobad

Considering the "sources" people have used to support their claims are in fact blogs I don't see anything to support the claims made.

I believe he actually quoted the articles from the blog so not so much his claims. Is there something in the t and c's stating you can't post anything from a blog?

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I'd accept a source that has other sources to back it up. Like a report from multiple media outlets (not necessarily western, as they can tend to push their own agenda as well), or a report with supporting photo or video that hasn't been proven as taken out of context or faked.

Blah, blah… nice dodge.

sosobad asked you…

What do you consider a reputable source?

Any, one, just one… otherwise be vetoed for the troll you are.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Considering the "sources" people have used to support their claims are in fact blogs I don't see anything to support the claims made.

Do you remember a certain thread about 123% voting in Crimea? The source for that was a blog I believe.....

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: sosobad

Considering the "sources" people have used to support their claims are in fact blogs I don't see anything to support the claims made.

Hey there he is. I warmed them up for you. Are you the Anti-Russia BeetleJuice? Because I swear we said your name three times in this thread and here you are.

On topic: There are a lot of opinion pieces from both sides of the conflict. Sosobad does make an interesting point. I don't accept RT as a source because they're known as a Kremlin mouthpiece, but in the same sense BornAgain and the others don't accept Western news sources (not matter how numerous) because they believe it's all just anti-Russian propaganda. So we are at this conundrum.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I'd accept a source that has other sources to back it up. Like a report from multiple media outlets (not necessarily western, as they can tend to push their own agenda as well), or a report with supporting photo or video that hasn't been proven as taken out of context or faked.

Blah, blah… nice dodge.

sosobad asked you…

What do you consider a reputable source?

Any, one, just one… otherwise be vetoed for the troll you are.

I don't think I dodged anything Intrptr. He asked what I would accept, and I told him. I even conceded that I'd accept an RT source so long as any ONE other major news outlet or reputable news source reported it as well.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Are you honestly suggesting they ignore the rebels and just attack civilians?

Yes, they have been shelling cities and villages almost from the beginning at places where there were no Separatists at all on a daily bases...T&C on this site doesn`t allow to show it, but it can be found fairly easily on the internet.

Somehow however very early in the beginning of it all, Western Media cover it up by claiming no Western media was allowed to be in Separatist territory, but as I have been showed many times with MH17, they were allowed to do their jobs without being threatened. Who do you think made all those famous claims/photo`s about Separatist BUK ?

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Bang on time.

BornAgain and the others don't accept Western news sources (not matter how numerous) because they believe it's all just anti-Russian propaganda

Western media has time and time again lied in unison they are no better than rt.

It is not just in members heads as you were hinting at.

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Bang on time.

BornAgain and the others don't accept Western news sources (not matter how numerous) because they believe it's all just anti-Russian propaganda

Western media has time and time again lied in unison they are no better than rt.

It is not just in members heads as you were hinting at.

How do they "lie in unison"? That would suggest there's some huge conspiracy of multiple nations and independent companies to report only what some mysterious person at the top wants them to report. Now, it's certainly true the many news agencies simply parrot what Reuters puts out, but I think that is mainly a sign of laziness, and not complicity in some larger conspiracy.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Are you honestly suggesting they ignore the rebels and just attack civilians?

Yes, they have been shelling cities and villages almost from the beginning at places where there were no Separatists at all on a daily bases...T&C on this site doesn`t allow to show it, but it can be found fairly easily on the internet.

Somehow however very early in the beginning of it all, Western Media cover it up by claiming no Western media was allowed to be in Separatist territory, but as I have been showed many times with MH17, they were allowed to do their jobs without being threatened. Who do you think made all those famous claims/photo`s about Separatist BUK ?

If it's against the site's T&C, then please PM the links to me. I'd love to see it. Seriously.

And you continue to suggest the Ukrainian forces don't attack rebels, just civilians? Then what of Victor7's post just a few minutes ago claiming that 650 separatists died in the battle for an airport? Did they get the sniffles and just keel over?

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

These 6 Corporations Control 90% Of The Media In America

Probably best to give that a read.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Like this, proof by an actual Dutch reporter who have been in Separatist territory all the time...

Google Translate :

Dead after grenade hospital Donetsk

In the Ukrainian city of Donetsk at least five people died when a grenade near a hospital hit. Also got six schools and five kindergartens damaged. On the pictures you can see that there is a huge crater beaten for the hospital.

Donetsk is the struggle between the pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian army recently flared up again. In the past 24 hours, two Ukrainian soldiers killed and eighteen wounded, notify the Ukrainian armed forces. The separatists would have shot about eighty times on the submissions of the army and villages in the area of Donetsk.

No stone left standing

NOS correspondent David Jan Godfroid yesterday visited the front in eastern Ukraine. The airport is owned by the separatists and is still being fought. In the nearby villages Pisky and Pervomaisk state according Godfroid no stone left standing. The foreign representative of the European Union, Federica Mogherini, is precisely expressed today for a truce of three days in the city Debaltsevo, near Donetsk.

Dutch