Christians, are violent old testament verses relevant to your beliefs today?

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: rokkuman

www.learnthebible.org...

there are less violent passages in the bible than one would think... the above for instance, does not say what people accuse it of saying..

The Biblical religion is a barbaric religion please admit it. So why are christians so deceptive in their attempts to get people to convert?

Every tract I have come across teaches that God is merciful and loving. But you and I know what the Bible really teaches dont we?

Why cant Christians be honest and create a tract saying "God loves you, but a few thousand years ago he instructed his people to kill women, children and old people, so read the Bible and decide for yourself".

Thats a more honest attempt at converting people dont you think.

a reply to: rokkuman

Purged your history books yet or are you still learning about all the brutality of man?

Yes, it means "DON'T DO IT".

HMMM. WarminIndy's very first degree was in History Education.

Let's talk history if you want to learn something objective. We can do that and I am already capable of doing so.

But apparently you haven't been able to pick out the difference in history and spiritual meaning, so are you asking us if there is anything spiritual about the verses that contain violence?

No, there is nothing spiritual in that, just that you must understand historical context. Not even the Jews will tell you that historical reading is spiritual.

YES, the Bible DOES contain spiritual lessons, but you have to understand it from a spiritual position. If you are thinking only of the natural and literal, then that's all you will understand.

Right now, there are a billion people drinking camel and cow urine, because to them everything is literal to the point they will kill for it.

DON'T drink cow or camel urine, you'll only get sick. Right now, there are a whole lot of people throwing themselves into the Ganges River, because they think it is spiritual. There was a time when Hindus burned the widows on the funeral pyres of their husbands..wait, they were doing that up until the 1940s.

But let's not talk about those things.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy



Let me explain...







karma....the Law of Reciprocity, you reap what you sow. Universal law.

Karma is not "universal law".







Its a purely hindu concept.







Are you Christian or Hindu? because my question was aimed at Christians.







or have christians started adopting hindu concepts?

That is silly



It is like saying that air is a scientific concept.

Okay so then the hindus and christians are on the same page as far as the concept of karna is concerned?

I think it goes far beyond any group of humans. It is something that has always been noted by the ones paying attention but there probally is some truth of some group putting much emphsis on it and describing it in ways others did not. That is why the air and sciecne was relevant. We always knew the wind blew but science took steps in explaining it differently than others but it does not mean science was first at it.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: rokkuman

www.learnthebible.org...

there are less violent passages in the bible than one would think... the above for instance, does not say what people accuse it of saying..

The Biblical religion is a barbaric religion please admit it. So why are christians so deceptive in their attempts to get people to convert?

Every tract I have come across teaches that God is merciful and loving. But you and I know what the Bible really teaches dont we?

Why cant Christians be honest and create a tract saying "God loves you, but a few thousand years ago he instructed his people to kill women, children and old people, so read the Bible and decide for yourself".

Thats a more honest attempt at converting people dont you think.

Well, now that you have read it, and you have made your choice, then what's the problem?

Has any Christian here tried to force you to convert?

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Next, I bet the OP will probably tell us that the Holocaust never happened. The Khmer Rouge, that was just a misunderstood guy. Rwanda, that's just a bunch of bad neighbors who couldn't get along. And that whole Stalin thing, just a little bump in the road that had nothing to do with atheism.

I bet you, as a true Christian believe that (most of) the victims of all the genocides you mentioned went to hell because they didn't believe jesus died for their sins right?

Or does Christianity teach one can be saved even if they don't believe Jesus died for their sins? Answer this if you dare.

Nope, I can't find a single bit of historical genocide anywhere else, except in the OT.

besides the point. the ot is part of your so called "holy book".
it boils down to this: your holy book has your God call for the slaughter of people and you have found ways to justify it.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Prezbo369

He is demanding to know why we don't purge the Bible, so does he only own books and similar media that is also purged of all objectionable violence?

I have no idea you'd have to ask him. However to compare the bible with other books that were not apparently inspired by the genocidal god that the majority of the people in the US worship, would be an exceptionally poor attempt at justifying the murderous actions therein.

I mean it seems to really bother him. I am concerned. If he reads those books, it might really upset him.

We all have to live together on this rock, and the fact that we all live among-st folk that can (with a straight face) excuse and justify genocide and mass rape is very concerning.

Plus we're told that this character is the source for all morality!......and maybe it is......for some folk.

originally posted by: WarminIndy


But apparently you haven't been able to pick out the difference in history and spiritual meaning, so are you asking us if there is anything spiritual about the verses that contain violence?

apparently you haven't been able to comprehend the simple points raised in the op.

My question is if the violent verses do not apply to you today why do christians still carry bibles with those sick verses in them?

Do you at least condemn old testament violence as barbaric? Yes or no.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Me? A wimp?

Thems fighting words, pardner.

(Really, WarminIndy needs to eat something, the snark is starting to show).

Yes, it is hilarious, so you wanna' discuss even more hilarious things?

Things such as......people that refer to themselves in the third person?

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Next, I bet the OP will probably tell us that the Holocaust never happened. The Khmer Rouge, that was just a misunderstood guy. Rwanda, that's just a bunch of bad neighbors who couldn't get along. And that whole Stalin thing, just a little bump in the road that had nothing to do with atheism.

I bet you, as a true Christian believe that (most of) the victims of all the genocides you mentioned went to hell because they didn't believe jesus died for their sins right?

Or does Christianity teach one can be saved even if they don't believe Jesus died for their sins? Answer this if you dare.

Nope, I can't find a single bit of historical genocide anywhere else, except in the OT.

besides the point. the ot is part of your so called "holy book".
it boils down to this: your holy book has your God call for the slaughter of people and you have found ways to justify it.

Again, there you go with the confusion of people in the OT with the people of the NT. God had made clear that the dead in Christ will rise from their sleep. If there are, or were I should say, good people who followed God, then they will rise as the dead in Christ when that day comes.

Guess what? None of the ancient Isrealites are in Heaven either at this time ... well, maybe one or two who could be called truly righteous in the Law. But if following the Law was easy and you could go to Heaven just like that in the OT, then there would have been no need for Jesus and the NT and New Covenant.

Again, this is why the OT is there. It teaches us these lessons.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Next, I bet the OP will probably tell us that the Holocaust never happened. The Khmer Rouge, that was just a misunderstood guy. Rwanda, that's just a bunch of bad neighbors who couldn't get along. And that whole Stalin thing, just a little bump in the road that had nothing to do with atheism.

I bet you, as a true Christian believe that (most of) the victims of all the genocides you mentioned went to hell because they didn't believe jesus died for their sins right?

Or does Christianity teach one can be saved even if they don't believe Jesus died for their sins? Answer this if you dare.

Nope, I can't find a single bit of historical genocide anywhere else, except in the OT.

besides the point. the ot is part of your so called "holy book".
it boils down to this: your holy book has your God call for the slaughter of people and you have found ways to justify it.

I see throughout this you know nothing about Christianity.

What this boils down to is this, you just don't like Christianity. Why don't you just say that and be done with it?

But there must be something to this God of the Bible if you like to challenge Him so much, so tell you what, take it up with God. You just simply ask God why He did this.

I didn't write the book. I'm not taking credit for the
book. But since you seem to like the book enough to consider it relevant enough to attack, then perhaps it is very relevant and you are having trouble coming to terms with your own inward views about ethics?

But NO Christian today would even consider doing those things, because we have a new way of doing things. So far you seem to not like the idea that we don't do things like back then.

And on top of that, YES, my relatives DIED in Dachau, because my mom's relatives from Bavaria were Ashkenazi Jews. I am a Christian and have no reason to hate Jews or Christians, because we live in this world today.

You want to talk about Dachau? Please, let's do so.

a reply to: rokkuman

The op has been answered but you do not like the answers.

a reply to: WarminIndy

He might not know about it. He seems to have a disdain for learning about ugly things.

Yeah, I see.

Perhaps he can go talk about Slenderman, I've heard there are people really doing crazy things about Slenderman. No, wait, that's pretty ugly as well.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Next, I bet the OP will probably tell us that the Holocaust never happened. The Khmer Rouge, that was just a misunderstood guy. Rwanda, that's just a bunch of bad neighbors who couldn't get along. And that whole Stalin thing, just a little bump in the road that had nothing to do with atheism.

I bet you, as a true Christian believe that (most of) the victims of all the genocides you mentioned went to hell because they didn't believe jesus died for their sins right?

Or does Christianity teach one can be saved even if they don't believe Jesus died for their sins? Answer this if you dare.

Nope, I can't find a single bit of historical genocide anywhere else, except in the OT.

besides the point. the ot is part of your so called "holy book".
it boils down to this: your holy book has your God call for the slaughter of people and you have found ways to justify it.

I see throughout this you know nothing about Christianity.

What this boils down to is this, you just don't like Christianity. Why don't you just say that and be done with it?

But there must be something to this God of the Bible if you like to challenge Him so much, so tell you what, take it up with God. You just simply ask God why He did this.

I didn't write the book. I'm not taking credit for the
book. But since you seem to like the book enough to consider it relevant enough to attack, then perhaps it is very relevant and you are having trouble coming to terms with your own inward views about ethics?

But NO Christian today would even consider doing those things, because we have a new way of doing things. So far you seem to not like the idea that we don't do things like back then.

And on top of that, YES, my relatives DIED in Dachau, because my mom's relatives from Bavaria were Ashkenazi Jews. I am a Christian and have no reason to hate Jews or Christians, because we live in this world today.

You want to talk about Dachau? Please, let's do so.

lets just talk about Christianity, shall we?

as a Christian what do you think happened to genocide victims who didn't believe jesus died for their sins?

I am asking a sincere question.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: WarminIndy

He might not know about it. He seems to have a disdain for learning about ugly things.

nope I have a disdain for the sick violent verses in the bible in your so called "holy bible".

But I guess you think genocide is okay as long as its "Biblical".

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Next, I bet the OP will probably tell us that the Holocaust never happened. The Khmer Rouge, that was just a misunderstood guy. Rwanda, that's just a bunch of bad neighbors who couldn't get along. And that whole Stalin thing, just a little bump in the road that had nothing to do with atheism.

I bet you, as a true Christian believe that (most of) the victims of all the genocides you mentioned went to hell because they didn't believe jesus died for their sins right?

Or does Christianity teach one can be saved even if they don't believe Jesus died for their sins? Answer this if you dare.

Nope, I can't find a single bit of historical genocide anywhere else, except in the OT.

besides the point. the ot is part of your so called "holy book".
it boils down to this: your holy book has your God call for the slaughter of people and you have found ways to justify it.

I see throughout this you know nothing about Christianity.

What this boils down to is this, you just don't like Christianity. Why don't you just say that and be done with it?

But there must be something to this God of the Bible if you like to challenge Him so much, so tell you what, take it up with God. You just simply ask God why He did this.

I didn't write the book. I'm not taking credit for the
book. But since you seem to like the book enough to consider it relevant enough to attack, then perhaps it is very relevant and you are having trouble coming to terms with your own inward views about ethics?

But NO Christian today would even consider doing those things, because we have a new way of doing things. So far you seem to not like the idea that we don't do things like back then.

And on top of that, YES, my relatives DIED in Dachau, because my mom's relatives from Bavaria were Ashkenazi Jews. I am a Christian and have no reason to hate Jews or Christians, because we live in this world today.

You want to talk about Dachau? Please, let's do so.

lets just talk about Christianity, shall we?

as a Christian what do you think happened to genocide victims who didn't believe jesus died for their sins?

I am asking a sincere question.

No, let's talk about all religions. Did I touch a nerve about Dachau?

I am not the one who determines who goes to heaven or hell, but I will say this, I think that the Jews who died went to Abraham's Bosom, because that's where Jesus said Lazarus went to. THAT promise was never taken away from them.

But if a person who enacts such violence and thinks they are ok, no, they are not and no they will not be rewarded.

Other Christians might say something different, but I personally believe that at the end of a person's life, it is only up to God about their reward or punishment, because sometimes it is punishment enough on this earth.

What Jesus did was bring all those who were not under the first covenant under the new covenant, to meet the same God. He never nullified the old covenant for the Jews, just instituted a new covenant for those who are not Jewish.
Gypsies, I don't know their views of the afterlife, but whatever they had faith in, I am sure that Jesus met them there.

But children, ALL children go to heaven, regardless. The Nazi SS soldiers, I am sure they met punishment.

But I am not the one who determines punishment or reward for any person. You will have to ask someone else if you want a different answer.

No, you have a problem only with the God of the Bible, regardless of whatever verses you think are relevant.

You don't know the rest of the Bible, so perhaps you need to read it before criticizing?

a reply to: rokkuman


thing is, when children grow up and find out their parents were killed in war, the seek revenge.. happens even today - find me someone whose father was killed, and I will show you someone who will spend the next 30 years planning his revenge.

although, the moral of the story in Samuel seems to be doing only part of what God told them to do.. they took spoils of war after being instructed not to...that is probably the whole point of telling the story to begin with...

God, throughout the entirety of the bible, seems to have a real difficulty with people who profit off HIS commands - regardless of what those commands are, from taking spoils of war, to charging for a dove in the temple...

God seems to want nothing to do with money at all... so I will say that this points to that more than anything else...

Was there a command by God to actually kill the children of the people Israel went to war with? I don't know but if there was it was probably just a war strategy and has happened many times throughout history by many different peoples, not only the jewish nation...

but that seemed a small portion of the story compared to the emphasis on not making a profit off something God tells you to do..

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Next, I bet the OP will probably tell us that the Holocaust never happened. The Khmer Rouge, that was just a misunderstood guy. Rwanda, that's just a bunch of bad neighbors who couldn't get along. And that whole Stalin thing, just a little bump in the road that had nothing to do with atheism.

I bet you, as a true Christian believe that (most of) the victims of all the genocides you mentioned went to hell because they didn't believe jesus died for their sins right?

Or does Christianity teach one can be saved even if they don't believe Jesus died for their sins? Answer this if you dare.

Nope, I can't find a single bit of historical genocide anywhere else, except in the OT.

besides the point. the ot is part of your so called "holy book".
it boils down to this: your holy book has your God call for the slaughter of people and you have found ways to justify it.

I see throughout this you know nothing about Christianity.

What this boils down to is this, you just don't like Christianity. Why don't you just say that and be done with it?

But there must be something to this God of the Bible if you like to challenge Him so much, so tell you what, take it up with God. You just simply ask God why He did this.

I didn't write the book. I'm not taking credit for the
book. But since you seem to like the book enough to consider it relevant enough to attack, then perhaps it is very relevant and you are having trouble coming to terms with your own inward views about ethics?

But NO Christian today would even consider doing those things, because we have a new way of doing things. So far you seem to not like the idea that we don't do things like back then.

And on top of that, YES, my relatives DIED in Dachau, because my mom's relatives from Bavaria were Ashkenazi Jews. I am a Christian and have no reason to hate Jews or Christians, because we live in this world today.

You want to talk about Dachau? Please, let's do so.

lets just talk about Christianity, shall we?

as a Christian what do you think happened to genocide victims who didn't believe jesus died for their sins?

I am asking a sincere question.

No, let's talk about all religions.

no, this thread is addressed to Christians so lets not talk about all religions.

Other Christians might say something different, but I personally believe that at the end of a person's life, it is only up to God about their reward or punishment, because sometimes it is punishment enough on this earth.

So its only upto God and the whole thing about Jesus being the "only way" is a 2000 year old lie.
Very good to hear. Its uplifting to see christians admit it.

I knew those tracts were filled with lies before I decided to throw them away.