Bill Would Allow Texas Teachers to Use Deadly Force Against Students

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: crazyewok

Is that the law??? Or are you off in drama land.


Say someone walks in, threatens bodily harm and you shoot them. Still have to talk to the police about it.

The "what-ifs" can be applied to anything.

My point is I believe very strongly in due process and think in only extreme circumstances should it be done away.
Ie under threat of life and limb.

Righting a blank check to let any numb skull shot peoole dead for petty crimes open things up to abuse.

a reply to: macman

No you're not meant to be sad, I just wanted an answer to see where you rank from 1-10 on the sociopathic level...

& predictably you're right where I expected you to be!

The poor mother thing really should be saved for someone like your fellow bleeding heart that doesn't like punishing people for criminal actions.

Doesn't take a bleeding heart to side with a mother murdered in front of her children, for petty theft from a billion dollar conglomerate...

Just someone who is firing on all four cylinders.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: crazyewok

No, not in all cases.

You should study American history, before many laws came into place.

I have.

And in theroy they should very well have got a trial as it was a fundemental part of english law.
So fundemental your founding fathers choose to enshrine that right in your constitution.


Now in pratice yes it was some times ignored out on the frontiers.

But this aint the 1700's anymore and the days of the wild west are over.

There is no need to bypass due process and trials for petty crimes.

Those that feel the need to trespass and steal property would be better served to stay in someplace where people accept it as a way of life.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Those that feel the need to trespass and steal property would be better served to stay in someplace where people accept it as a way of life.

So but how in this day and age is bypassing due process and killing someone over theft needed or moral?

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: chuck258

I'm sorry that you don't approve of the 5th Amendment.

If you are actively firing rounds into a crowd or at specific students, you are a direct threat to human life and well being, your rights are gone. The fifth amendment is about the pursuit of justice after a crime has been done. (I murder you then get caught the next day), it is NOT in place to stop an active shooter from being neutralized. Sorry to burst your bubble. If someone breaks into your home and starts shooting your family during a family gathering, by all means allow them to fire until the magazine is empty. As for me and most others who have at least a basic understanding in logic: we will defend our families at all costs.

As for the property defense portion of the law: This law is not going to enable gung ho teachers to start shooting students who are tagging up the bathroom stall or drawing on desks. If you have that little faith in people, you need to move to very sparsely populated countries like Greenland, Iceland, or the Arctic. I promise, we'll get along without you just fine

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Answer

For arguments sake...


How do you feel about Saudi Arabian law that says a thief will lose their hand?


It's their law right? So it's justified surely?

I'm curious how you reconcile your apparent distaste with Sharia law and the fact that those laws are based on the Quran and the words of Muhammad. At what point is the Quran no longer the word of God? I may be wrong in remembering that you're Muslim... if so, disregard.

I'm much less concerned with the hand-chopping than the fact that homosexuality, fornication, apostasy, witchcraft, sedition, and adultery are all punishable by death according to Sharia law/the Quran.

so sad. the mere fact that we are discussing this is sure evidence of another nail in the coffin
of free society.

a reply to: Answer

I don't want to take this that far off topic but that's not Quranic law it's Saudi interpretation of Shariah Law...
If that was definitive Shariah Law it would be common place in all Islamic countries.

I'd prefer if you answer my question as to whether the punishment for theft justified, since it is the law of Saudi Arabia?
Rather than a deflection to other laws...

But then again now you mention it, are those Saudi laws not justifiable as the Law states?
You said this Texan law is justified because it's the Law?

So you must agree with the Saudis that it's justified?



Or do you think it's not, & maybe now understand where I'm coming from when I say it's not moral or justified to shoot someone dead that poses no physical threat for petty theft... Even if it's written as Law...


Is there common ground here somewhere?

Or is it this Texan Law is justified, & that Saudi Law isn't? (Theft Laws)

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: roadgravel
Those that feel the need to trespass and steal property would be better served to stay in someplace where people accept it as a way of life.

So but how in this day and age is bypassing due process and killing someone over theft needed or moral?

I hear ya. One problem is that too many are making of life of crime and never punished for it.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

i like your style, your eloquence and your questioning nature Charlie

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Answer

I don't want to take this that far off topic but that's not Quranic law it's Saudi interpretation of Shariah Law...
If that was definitive Shariah Law it would be common place in all Islamic countries.

Hmm... There seems to be no disputing the source of the law. The way in which they're applied is a different story. Basically, certain nations choose to not observe the laws because they have decided they're too barbaric. It's much like Judeo-Christian religions ignoring the archaic laws in the Bible which would drive people away.

There is no dispute among Muslims that the Qur'an is the basis of the Sharia and that its specific provisions are to be scrupulously observed. The Hadith and Sunna are complementary sources to the Qur'an and consist of the sayings of the Prophet and accounts of his deeds.

Source


To answer your question, I have little sympathy for thieves but I do have a problem with Saudi Arabia's laws because they're based on religious text. A law should be established, reevaluated, challenged, and shown to withstand scrutiny by a nation's legislative system. Laws should not derive from a book of fairy tales. That is exactly why I brought up the other aspects of Sharia Law in the first place.

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: roadgravel
Those that feel the need to trespass and steal property would be better served to stay in someplace where people accept it as a way of life.

So but how in this day and age is bypassing due process and killing someone over theft needed or moral?

I hear ya. One problem is that too many are making of life of crime and never punished for it.

Then we should be looking at better ways to rehabilitate those.

Not use on US states but in UK its something like 60% will reoffend.

Compare that to countrys like Norway or japan (both castly diffrent systems) and its bellow 20%.

Classic right wing nuts. They build a shrine to killing under the guise of self defense.

a reply to: crazyewok

Then we should be looking at better ways to rehabilitate those.

With all the wealth and power of the US there are people who have little opportunity for a decent life. People can say what they want but greed, corporate mentality and religion is a big part of the problem.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: roadgravel
Those that feel the need to trespass and steal property would be better served to stay in someplace where people accept it as a way of life.

So but how in this day and age is bypassing due process and killing someone over theft needed or moral?

I hear ya. One problem is that too many are making of life of crime and never punished for it.

Then we should be looking at better ways to rehabilitate those.

Not use on US states but in UK its something like 60% will reoffend.

Compare that to countrys like Norway or japan (both castly diffrent systems) and its bellow 20%.

I completely agree with this (shocker, I know). The U.S. prison system is a money-making machine and certain groups have a huge stake in keeping the prisons stuffed with inmates.

Repeat offenders are a HUGE part of the prison population. Read this.

There are many reasons for this but part of the problem is that once a person has been incarcerated, it's very difficult for them to find employment. If a person is suddenly released from prison and has no way to earn money, it doesn't take much for them to revert back to a life of crime.

The U.S. has a metric ton of social problems contributing to the prison population and it's difficult to make a comparison to Norway. I wish the answer was simple but our problems are so bad it's hard to know where and how to address them.

originally posted by: TsukiLunar
Classic right wing nuts. They build a shrine to killing under the guise of self defense.

Classic left wing liberals hippies. They assume that all of life's problems can be solved with a hug and a bit of love.



Painting with a broad brush is a lazy way to evaluate a complex issue.

Back in my day we had detention.

a reply to: Answer

No you misunderstand me...
Shariah is the law...

It's the punishment for certain crimes that is heavily debated.


I can show you a verse from the Quran right now that negates the death penalty for Apostacy...
I can show you a verse referring to homosexuality which is called a sinful act... But entails no punishment...


Anywho...

How is a Law "based on fantasy" any different than a Law based on the ideology of a select few?
If indeed, religious law is fantasy, as in from the imagination...
Which divinity passed the Law you're defending?
Did it not also come from somebodies imagination?

What makes it any more morally justified to shoot someone in the back of the head just for petty theft?
& If that legality, hypothetically, came from "fantasy" would you still agree with it?


No need to reply.

But think about those things within yourself.

a reply to: RoScoLaz4

Thank you buddy. Much appreciated.