the 99 (ninety-nine) names of Allah.... a FYI

a reply to: WarminIndy

Again you're referring to Hadith & possibly taking it out of context as well...


I don't even follow the Hadith as you know, but depending on who is explaining the "break the crosses" mantra, it can be taken as putting a stop to the Idol Worship of objects to bring back the original message of all the Prophets, Worship is for God only.


Again, depending on who is interpeting the Hadith, it could be taken as a commitment to destroying Christianity...


But because the Quran says none of this... Nor even mentions Al Mahdi...

But does say "We have not missed anything in the Book"...

Why should I adhere to messages "revealed" decades later through hear say?




The only parts of the Hadith that I am open minded to are what Muhammad preached that didn't contradict the Quran.
This announcement of Al Mahdi & the battle with Dajjal are one of those.

a reply to: FlyersFan

The Bible sure does say that...


But with free will it is my decision if I'd rather sacrifice my own salvation or my family member's lives...


Regardless of what is taught, that is my choice.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Regardless of what is taught, that is my choice.

Sure. You have a choice to do as Jesus showed us, or do your own thing. Christians know that insulting God just to get a longer life here is not worth it ... because our place in Eternity is much more important.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: WarminIndy



Why should I adhere to messages "revealed" decades later through hear say?

And you have just denounced Islam altogether...

"Messages revealed"...well, here's the answer, your "messenger" not only lived decades...but CENTURIES later than Christianity and the Q'uran is "revealed" those many Centuries later.

Mohammed NEVER revealed anything, AISHA said that Khadijah said...that's hearsay.

You just nullified everything about Islam in that sentence.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

It absolutely is, and we know that many Christians when faced with that choice won't be able to do it either.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Regardless of what is taught, that is my choice.

Sure. You have a choice to do as Jesus showed us, or do your own thing. Christians know that insulting God just to get a longer life here is not worth it ... because our place in Eternity is much more important.

He just denounced Islam, better find a place for him to hide.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Burkhas are not Islamic they're Arabic & that's a big difference...


Muslim women are told that it's best to cover the hair & neck but not the entire face...
Because one needs to know who they're interacting with.



But you can go ahead and equate Saudi Arabian tradition with Islam all you like...





Secondly that's a loaded question based in the Burkha fallacy, intended to imply that I would just let children die...
I'm done with you.

I'm thinking that people try to justify what they believe is right by saying god is their god and Satan is who others are worshiping. If we just treated others as we are supposed to and didn't try to shove our beliefs down others throats we could all be happy. Both Allah and Jesus promoted good, neither were tricksters.

Why would anyone want to hate others just because they had different beliefs? That is not what I get from the words of Jesus in the bible nor from what I read of Allah. Maybe Satan has blurred the lines and wants us to believe in chaos. I respect the rights of both the Christians and Muslims to believe in their god as long as it does not negatively effect me or my family. I do not want to be forced to bow down to god, I would rather speak with him and be his friend.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Yes, and if giving up Eternity for the sake of family or whoever else is threatened with death isn't good enough for your God then you can keep him.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Twisting people's words again?


Good luck to you.


Such a judgemental Christian, Jesus will be proud of you!

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: WarminIndy

Burkhas are not Islamic they're Arabic & that's a big difference...


Muslim women are told that it's best to cover the hair & neck but not the entire face...
Because one needs to know who they're interacting with.



But you can go ahead and equate Saudi Arabian tradition with Islam all you like...





Secondly that's a loaded question based in the Burkha fallacy, intended to imply that I would just let children die...
I'm done with you.

Really?

You just promised us that you would swear by Allah that you would not commit taqqiyah.

Who instituted the wearing of burqhas? AISHA. Do you not know the history of your own religion?

You aren't done with me, because you know I'm right, but then you realized that I caught you in apostasy, which I am not condemning you for, but that I know what will happen to you so you had to cover it up quickly. It's too bad, because now your post is forever archived and every whacked out fundamentalist Muslim who reads this, knows you said it. I'm just trying to warn you.

Do you need protection? I can point you to a good church in London that will give you protection, because you have just apostatized yourself.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Why should I adhere to messages "revealed" decades later through hear say?

Glad to hear you say that. You prefer eyewitness accounts to the events and the writings written down by people of the actual time period. Therefore, I'm sure you'll agree that the gospel accounts of Jesus life in the bible are much more accurate than the stories Muhammad made up 600+ years later ... stories that contradict the eyewitness testimony of the gospels.

With keeping with the theme of the thread - now that we have established that you know the gospel to be much more accurate than the qu'ran stories .... Jesus made it clear that we are not to lie or run away from suffering that comes our way when we live for God. The OP said he'd call out one of the names Muslims use for Allah if he was threatened with death and he'd do this in hopes of not being killed. For a Christian, this is the same as calling out to a false god and it's against Jesus teachings to do it.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: FlyersFan

Yes, and if giving up Eternity for the sake of family or whoever else is threatened with death isn't good enough for your God then you can keep him.

Then perhaps you should be an atheist because I think Allah would have something to say about this. You are his and you should submit if you are a true Muslim. Or at least that is the impression I get, or do you believe that it is permissible to lie as some do if you can advance the faith by doing so?

In which case I suppose you could lie to save your relatives, but that puts you on shaky ground because then how can we trust what you say about your faith and its true motives here? Again, you could be lying to advance its purpose.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: WarminIndy

Twisting people's words again?


Good luck to you.


Such a judgemental Christian, Jesus will be proud of you!

I am just trying to help.

You've answered the questions out of your own heart. We can only know the truth of your statements if they are true, and if you have lied completely throughout this exchange then you are a liar.

But if you have been honest about what you said, then you are in apostasy according to Islam. That makes me very concerned for you.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: FlyersFan

Yes, and if giving up Eternity for the sake of family or whoever else is threatened with death isn't good enough for your God then you can keep him.

Then perhaps you should be an atheist because I think Allah would have something to say about this. You are his and you should submit if you are a true Muslim. Or at least that is the impression I get, or do you believe that it is permissible to lie as some do if you can advance the faith by doing so?

In which case I suppose you could lie to save your relatives, but that puts you on shaky ground because then how can we trust what you say about your faith and its true motives here? Again, you could be lying to advance its purpose.

If he's telling the truth, then he knows the consequences. And he calls us judgmental for catching it.

But the Christians are willing to hide and protect him, even if he doesn't become Christian. He's not very submitted to allah or Islam, because he said three things against it.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Yes, and if giving up Eternity for the sake of family or whoever else is threatened with death isn't good enough for your God then you can keep him.

Death isn't the worst thing in the world. Denial of God and His truth is. Your 'prophet' Jesus taught that.

People who are willing to die for the truth are giving their lives in great testimony of that truth.

Jesus knew what he was doing and was no coward. He didn't spare the suffering that was coming for His mother or His friends. He continued His mission and with the truth. Thank GOD that He didn't lie to get out of suffering. Otherwise, we wouldn't have His teachings to live by today. The suffering of Jesus and those around Him were necessary for Christianity to be born and grow.

To lie about God and run from the suffering He allows ... all the while giving him a *WINK* and saying that you'll square with Him later ... that doesn't work.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: FlyersFan

Yes, and if giving up Eternity for the sake of family or whoever else is threatened with death isn't good enough for your God then you can keep him.

Then perhaps you should be an atheist because I think Allah would have something to say about this. You are his and you should submit if you are a true Muslim. Or at least that is the impression I get, or do you believe that it is permissible to lie as some do if you can advance the faith by doing so?

In which case I suppose you could lie to save your relatives, but that puts you on shaky ground because then how can we trust what you say about your faith and its true motives here? Again, you could be lying to advance its purpose.

I just read something funny from a "Scholar" of Islam...

On one occasion, the Prophet's wife Hafsah chided her co-wife Safiyyah by calling her “the daughter of a Jew”. She started to cry. The Prophet (peace be upon him) then came in and asked her why she was crying. She said: “Hafsah called me the daughter of a Jew.” To this the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “Verily, you are the daughter of a Prophet, your uncle was also a Prophet, and you are the wife of a Prophet, so what does she have over you to boast about?” He then turned to Hafsah and said: “Fear Allah, O Hafsah.” [Sunan al-Tirmidhî (3862)] [This hadîth is authentic. It has been determined to be authentic by al-Albânî in Sahîh wa Da`îf Sunan al-Tirmidhî (3894) and al-Mishkât (6183).] Safiyyah's statement was true, because Safiyyah’s father, Hubayy b. Akhtab, was in fact a Jew who had died without ever accepting Islam. Still, such a comment was meant as a take on Safiyyah’s person, which was only more hurtful as it was coming from her co-wife. Safiyyah was a descendant of Aaron (peace be upon him). So, when Hafsah insinuated that Safiyyah’s being of Jewish descent was something bad, the Prophet (peace be upon him) showed Hafsah another way of looking at it: that Safiyyah was the descendant of Prophet Aaron and that her uncle was Moses, and that her husband was Muhammad (peace be upon them all), so there was no reason at all for her to be ashamed of being of Jewish descent.

Do you know what is funny about this? NO Jewish person claims to descend from Aaron, they claim to descend from LEVI. So that's a huge mark against knowing Torah or Jewish culture.

And since she is the daughter of Aaron, then Moses is her uncle????

What a really big mistake they made. Remember, they also said Maryam was also the daughter of Harun. The Q'uran, Mohammed nor any of the Companions had any concept of Jewish life, Jewish customs nor Jewish lineage.

It's like Aaron and Moses were alive just before Mohammed. Mohammed should have known that Saffiyah could not have been the daughter of Aaron. So this really makes me question what century the Q'uran was actually published in.

Whoever wrote this, had no concept of the thousand year span between Moses and Jesus.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I couldn't care less what Fundamentalists think...


Judgement Day will come for all of us & I fear none but Allah!
His protection is all I need.



Finally, before we part ways for your transgressions & false statements...

Give me a Surah that says women must wear a Burkha that covers their face...
Don't tell me what has been attributed to Aisha, if it's not in the Quran (which it isn't) don't waste my time.

The idea that it is obligatory is still being debated among Scholars...

That should give you a hint as to whether it's in the Quran or not (it's not)!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
Why do you care what the Qu'ran says? You said this -

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Why should I adhere to messages "revealed" decades later through hear say?

The message revealed by Jesus ... "pick up your cross and follow me".

The message Jesus lived ... don't deny God or His mission for you no matter the suffering for yourself or others around you ... even being faithful to God even unto death if that's what He decides.

a reply to: ketsuko

"Permitted" & "Obligatory" are not the same thing...


The Quran says Allah is merciful & forgiving and that the Hearts intentions are what weigh up on Judgement Day...


So while the lie under threat of death (permitted not obligatory) would go against...
The intention behind the transgression would also be weighed on the Scales of Judgement...


Now compare that to the "all encompassing & loving God of the Bible" who would only weigh up the lie according to the people in this thread...


Who is more merciful to people?



Now before people say that "but you said only Shia believe they're permitted to lie to save themselves"...
That is not what I said...
I said it is a Shia Tradition, others do not necessarily follow what is "permissible" as opposed to what is "obligatory".

I also never said the liar wouldn't be punished for it...
It will be seen as a transgression, and when all good & bad is weighed up, if that lie pushes the scales in a negative direction despite whatever the persons intentions...

They will be punished however Allah wills.