17 yo girl killed by police--Now threats by Anonymous?

a reply to: blackthorne

1) they tried to deploy a taser and it didn't work

2) never bring a knife to a gunfight, and never bring a baton to a knife fight

3) pepper spray is non lethal and isn't guranteed to make anybody drop a weapon. The main use of pepper spray is the inability of the subject to see, which allows officers to grab them. When the subject has a knife, the inability to see doesn't really do diddly to the ability to use the knife.

4) all three did not go for their guns

5) it's Judge Dredd, not Judge Dread.

6) if you're going to comment 13 pages into a thread, take a minimum amount of time to do some reading so you don't say the same thing or ask the same question that has been rebutted 278 times already.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I had a man pull a knife on me and try to stab me. I took it away. 3 MEN facing a little 17 year old girl couldn't do the same. Cowards, that's my final answer.

PS: I didn't stab him with his own knife either.

a reply to: Shamrock6

you can still redeploy a taser. there were three of them. that means there were two more available for them to use.

a baton can knock a knife out of a girls hand. there were three of them there. three men cops advancing would overwhelm her.

you answered the question your self about pepper spray. blind her, then disarm her. hell, she would probably drop the knife her self out of pain.

and you did not even bother answering, "why are cops armed with other non lethal weapons if all they ever do is go for their guns?"

sorry for the misspelling of the movie. been a long time since i have seen it.

a reply to: blackthorne

Apparently you still haven't bothered to actually read anything about the incident. It wasn't three male cops.

A taser can be redeployed, yes. After a new cartridge is loaded.

A baton can knock anything out of somebody's hand. Conversely, it can NOT knock something out of somebody's hand.

Pepper spray might make somebody drop whatever is in their hand. It may also make them cover their face with one hand and swing the other one around, especially when the other hand is holding a knife.

A knife within 5 feet is a lethal threat. A lethal threat begets a lethal response. They tried a less than lethal response and it didn't work.

Until you bone up on what actually happened, I'm done here. There's zero point in debating something with somebody who has half the story and fills in the rest with their own ideas.

a reply to: Shamrock6

See.. after insulting me and calling me a liar on multiple occasions (with no apology) you admit you were wrong On that case of a cop murdering a girl and shooting another.

Now in the other case we aee him get control of the girl reach around his back dor cuffs ans then get up. You arent completely unable to use your hands and arms in cuffs, or maybe he sisnt secure them. Or maybe they were the wider courr cuffs since it was a police station (kind used in court rooms).

I cant explain why she appears to have a free hand. She doesnt put her hands in front of her. If she wasnt cuffes at all why.

In the end this cop messes up. He got a mentally ill girl killed and endangeres other officers. Other officers wwho inexplicably werent helping. Youd think if ahe had a knife hed say so ans theyd take it while she was down. This shouldnt have happened. These cops cant handle a simple situation. I know I could have personally sone a better job eapecially woth two othe men.

You cann

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Well, I don't have to agree, but I do question why she was able to pull her hand up in an apparently threatening manner with the apparent weapon in a stabbing fashion while running at the officer. We don't know (at the last time I researched) what he was doing while she was on the ground. He could have been trying to reason with her instead of cuffing her...who knows. The situation is odd, but the fact still remains that, after a felonious assault on the officer, she ran at him in a threatening manner. You do that to an LEO, you'll get shot, and rightfully so. If I had my CCW pulled on you for assaulting me and you decided to rush me, I'd fire, too. At that point, my life is more important that yours, and I make no apologies for it.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I didn't answer because life isn't a set of concrete parameters where every situation is the same. I just read a story about a 3-year-old shooting his parents with a gun. His age and size doesn't make that accident any less deadly.

Your question doesn't deserve an answer because it's not a point worth making in this conversation, and there's no honest way to answer it because there are too many variables and every situation is different.

a reply to: midicon

That's the point...you shouldn't make up your mind yet, as there are no details released really, other than the video. I am very careful to use the caveats when I talk about these types of cases like "from what we know so far" or "from what the current evidence shows" or anything similar. With my legal background, it's utter ignorance to jump to conclusions.

But in this case, the video is speaking volumes so far in favor of the officer not overstepping his boundaries of lethal force. But, I do have concerns as to why, after she was taken down to the ground and held there, why she could jump up un-cuffed and run at the officer with something in her hand. This could possibly be negligence on his behalf, but we don't know yet.

a reply to: Xtrozero

So then your point is not one worth making. It's not the age that I'm concerned with, it's the weapon. And she wasn't a "very small girl," she was an apparently average-sized teenager fit enough and arrogant enough to fight against an LEO in the lobby of the police station. Your description of this girl is based on emotional response, not reality, and just like your "point," it serves no purpose in this discussion.

If my son's Kenpo sensei (well, one of them) who is a 100lb 16-year-old girl, about 5'3" tall, but is an expert in Kenpo, Jeet Kune Do, a level 4 in Krav Maga, and proficient in combative jiujitsut were the one in this video, something tells me you'd still be only focused on her sex, age and size. Your argument, while relevant at times, is irrelevant here, and I'm done discussing irrelevant things.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
If my son's Kenpo sensei (well, one of them) who is a 100lb 16-year-old girl, about 5'3" tall, but is an expert in Kenpo, Jeet Kune Do, a level 4 in Krav Maga, and proficient in combative jiujitsut were the one in this video, something tells me you'd still be only focused on her sex, age and size. Your argument, while relevant at times, is irrelevant here, and I'm done discussing irrelevant things.

I hope that every person the cops come in contact with they treat it like it is someone "expert in Kenpo, Jeet Kune Do, a level 4 in Krav Maga, and proficient in combative jiujitsut" and of course they will feel threaten...We all know the ending of that...

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Im in KY too.
This actually happened to a friend of mine. He was almost charged with murder even though they knew the guy had a knife.
The problem here is the cop surrendered control. For all we know he could've known how she would act and allowed her suicide by cop which was her goal. it's a deep one. Should be some kind've charges on him.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

He could have been trying to reason with her instead of cuffing her...who knows

Is this how you would try and reason with someone ?....

a reply to: Shamrock6

Until you bone up on what actually happened, I'm done here. There's zero point in debating something with somebody who has half the story and fills in the rest with their own ideas.

the pot calling the kettle black

a reply to: SlapMonkey

but the fact still remains that, after a felonious assault on the officer, she ran at him in a threatening manner.

I am curious, what was the felonious assault?

Do you not agree that if this had occurred in the UK that the girl would still be alive. This is not because the UK police have no access to firearms but because they are prepared to put themselves on the line.

I am no armchair quarterback, I don't care about any of that stuff. I don't like anything about that cop or how that whole scene played out, aggression is the first port of call.

originally posted by: midicon
I am curious, what was the felonious assault?

Any assault on a police officer is a felony in CO. Here, let me do the research for you:

Second Degree Assault

5."Knowingly" apply "physical, violent force" to a police officer, firefighter, prison guard, or a judge while they are in the performance of their duties.

Source

Do you not agree that if this had occurred in the UK that the girl would still be alive. This is not because the UK police have no access to firearms but because they are prepared to put themselves on the line.

I am no armchair quarterback, I don't care about any of that stuff. I don't like anything about that cop or how that whole scene played out, aggression is the first port of call.

It doesn't matter if this would have happened in the UK or not--here in America, even police officers have the right to defend their safety and their life with deadly force, when appropriate. Sure, this could have ended another way, but for a self-professed "no armchair quarterback," you sure are throwing some hail marys. Speculating on the what-might-have-beens is exactly what an armchair quarterback does--you look at the situation after the fact and then claim you know best. I agree with your idealistic point of view, but it's not always reality.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Charges for what? He did nothing illegal. He may have effed up proper procedure, and probably could use some administrative punishment, but defending your life with deadly force is an appropriate response.

And being almost charged with murder means nothing until you are charged...attorneys and LEOs claim a lot of things that "will" happen that won't. I'm glad he wasn't, though. I can't imagine ever having to take a life in self defense--I'm empathetic in that regard.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Your emotions are getting the worst of you. It's time to stop and think with your head about the entire situation, and quit twisting what I say to suit your ideologic tirade.

I'm with Shamrock6:

There's zero point in debating something with somebody who has half the story and fills in the rest with their own ideas.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I hope that every person the cops come in contact with they treat it like it is someone "expert in Kenpo, Jeet Kune Do, a level 4 in Krav Maga, and proficient in combative jiujitsut" and of course they will feel threaten...We all know the ending of that...

This.

This is why I question if you learned anything about handling situations like this during your military service. You sound like someone who has had zero training.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

There was no felonious assault, perhaps resisting arrest.

Sure, this could have ended another way, but for a self-professed "no armchair quarterback," you sure are throwing some hail marys. Speculating on the what-might-have-beens is exactly what an armchair quarterback does--you look at the situation after the fact and then claim you know best. I agree with your idealistic point of view, but it's not always reality.

I am not speculating on what might have been, just on what played out in the video. I said I am no armchair quarterback...not to imply anything other than, that I make no claims about physical prowess or derring do.

I am a bit of an idealist, that's true. The video made me angry...I feel sorry for that girl.