POLL - Should the UK monarchy now be abolished ? Y/N - all ATS members please contribute

No, not that I particularly like the royals but I would like a President Blair a lot less. What definitely needs to go though is the totally corrupt and undemocratic House of Lords.!

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Korg Trinity

George VI Born Sandringham 14th December 1895.
His father was born London 3rd June 1865.

Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon Born London 4th August 1900.
He father was the Earl of Strathmore and Kingholm.
Her mother was born in Belgravia.

That's pretty much British by any definition.

Have I made any mistakes?

So do you believe England is no longer a country? Typical....

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity
My passport says British citizen.

Absolutely no.

We have a choice been a monarch and a president

One is cheap (relatively speaking), respected globally, enhances tourism and of global historic interest, stable, not concerned with material gain for itself and most importantly is beyond political whim and corruption.

The other is not.

a reply to: AndyMayhew Haha your post has nearly made me change my mind!
The accident of birth/head of state thing will never be something I find comfortable though, and in any case I'm Welsh so I should probably still be bitching about 1282 when her Maj's relatives did Llywelyn ap Gruffudd over and we lost.
...maybe not, it was a while ago now lol

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Korg Trinity
Just to check you understand the difference between owning land in a country and owning all the land in a country?
Also doesn't Windsor's claim the throne cone via the Stuarts, so shouldn't queen of Scots be her primary title?

Oh I understand....

For example all physical land in Canada is the property of the Crown....

Korg.

Property of the crown means owned by the state not the monarch.
And do you have a link to back up your claim re Canada?

a reply to: ScepticScot

Yup also the queen makes no money from crown land abroad.
I see crown land as the peoples. If we got rid how long would it be untill the land became sold to the highest bidder?.

No

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Korg Trinity
Just to check you understand the difference between owning land in a country and owning all the land in a country?
Also doesn't Windsor's claim the throne cone via the Stuarts, so shouldn't queen of Scots be her primary title?

Oh I understand....

For example all physical land in Canada is the property of the Crown....

Korg.

Property of the crown means owned by the state not the monarch.
And do you have a link to back up your claim re Canada?

I'm afraid you are wrong.

Who Owns the World

The Queen is the sole legal owner of all the land of Canada. The private “holdership” factor, based on freehold tenure of housing is 67%. For all other land it is less than 9.7%, with over 90% of Canadian land remaining as Crown leasehold, administered for the Crown by various agencies and departments of the government of Canada
GNI in 2005 was $28,390 and Canada ranked 21 in the World Bank list
In the Economist Quality of Life survey Canada scored 7.59 and was ranked 21 out of 111 countries.
About 79% of the Canadian population is urban and there is no basic poverty in Canada.
There are 75.9 acres per person in Canada.

How Canada is owned

All physical land in Canada is the property of the Crown, Queen Elisabeth 11. There is no provision in the Canada Act, or in the Constitution Act 1982 which amends it, for any Canadian to own any physical land in Canada. All that Canadians may hold, in conformity with medieval and feudal law, is “an interest in an estate in land in fee simple”. Land defined as ‘Crown land’ in Canada, and administered by the Federal Government and the Provinces, is merely land not ‘dedicated’ or assigned in freehold tenure. Freehold is tenure, not ownership. Freehold land is ‘held’ not ‘owned’.

Canada, a vast territory dominating the north of the North American continent, was colonised by the British from 1497 when Cabot left Bristol and reached New Foundland. Subsequently, most of Canada fell under French control. In 1759, at the result of a single battle at Quebec, Britain took Canada from the French. In 1867 Canada became the first Crown colony to obtain self government within the Empire as a Dominion. Throughout most of the 19th century, it was the stated policy of the American political parties to annex Canada. They were prevented from doing so only by the threat of British sea power. Canada is now, with Britain, America’s closest ally, despite some differences. The policy of annexing Canada has been shelved because not even America could afford the bill from the Crown, about $16 trillion. Canada is a federation of 13 provinces.

Korg.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Korg Trinity
My passport says British citizen.

Which town were you born?

Korg?

a reply to: Korg Trinity

No, he isn't wrong. It is you misunderstanding what you're talking about.

"The Crown" in the UK is land owned by the Government, usually as part of the Crown Estate (again, nothing to do with the Queen) or coastal/seabed area's.

"The Crown" in Canada is Federal Land, owned by the Canadian Federal Government, exactly the same as above. Nothing to do with the Queen.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Korg Trinity
My passport says British citizen.

Which town were you born?

And just so we are absolutely clear...

England is a country that is part of the United Kingdom.[2][3][4] It shares land borders with Scotland to the north and Wales to the west. The Irish Sea lies north west of England, whilst the Celtic Sea lies to the southwest. The North Sea to the east and the English Channel to the south separate England from continental Europe. The country covers much of the central and southern part of the island of Great Britain, which lies in the North Atlantic; and includes over 100 smaller islands such as the Isles of Scilly, and the Isle of Wight.

Source: - en.wikipedia.org...

Korg?

a reply to: Korg Trinity
Sorry but your source is someone who cant even use roman numerals. "Queen Elizabeth 11". Like you they don't seem understand the difference between the crown and the monarch.

originally posted by: Monger
a reply to: stumason

So their living expenses + salaries + upkeep on all those palaces is magic, coming from nowhere like Manna from heaven?

It is paid for from the income derived by the Treasury by the Crown Estate...

Clearly you don't have a bloody clue what you're talking about. Perhaps you should do some light reading first.

a reply to: aboutface

Harper isn't a Head of State, he's a Head of Government and while I am sure hosts will pay for some expenses, they don't carry as much pomp as a Head of State. Whenever one visits the UK, they are afforded the best treatment at our expense and the same goes for when they visit other Nations.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Korg Trinity

No, he isn't wrong. It is you misunderstanding what you're talking about.

"The Crown" in the UK is land owned by the Government, usually as part of the Crown Estate (again, nothing to do with the Queen) or coastal/seabed area's.

"The Crown" in Canada is Federal Land, owned by the Canadian Federal Government, exactly the same as above. Nothing to do with the Queen.

This is getting ridiculous... I can't believe so many people haven't a clue about this!

Crown Land

Crown land (also royal domain or demesne) is an area belonging to the monarch ("the Crown"), the equivalent of an entailed estate that passed with the monarchy and could not be alienated from it. Today, in Commonwealth realms such as Canada and Australia, the term is used to refer to public land.

In Britain, the hereditary revenues of Crown lands provided income for the monarch until the start of the reign of George III when the Crown Estate was surrendered to the Parliament of Great Britain in return for a fixed civil list payment – the monarch retains the income from the Duchy of Lancaster.

Within Canada, Crown Land is a designated territorial area belonging to the Canadian Crown.[5][6] Though the monarch owns all Crown Land in the country, paralleling the "division" of the Crown amongst the federal and provincial governments, Crown Land is similarly divided so that some lands within the provinces are administered by the relevant provincial Crown, whereas others are under the federal Crown. About 89% of Canada's land area (8,886,356 km²) is Crown Land; 41% is federal, 48% is provincial, and the remaining 11% is privately owned.[7] Most federal Crown Land is in the territories (Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and Yukon) and is administered by Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada. Only 4% of land in the provinces is federally controlled, largely in the form of National Parks, Indian reserves, or Canadian Forces bases. In contrast, provinces hold much of their territory as provincial Crown Land, which may be held as Provincial Parks or wilderness.

Crown Land is the equivalent of an entailed estate that passes with the monarchy and cannot be alienated from it; thus, per constitutional convention, these lands cannot be unilaterally sold by the monarch, instead passing on to the next king or queen unless the sovereign is advised otherwise by the relevant ministers of the Crown. Crown Land provides the country and the provinces with the majority of their profits from natural resources, largely but not exclusively provincial, rented for logging and mineral exploration rights; revenues flow to the relevant government and may constitute a major income stream, such as in Alberta. Crown Land may also be rented by individuals wishing to build homes or cottages.

Korg.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: aboutface

Harper isn't a Head of State, he's a Head of Government and while I am sure hosts will pay for some expenses, they don't carry as much pomp as a Head of State. Whenever one visits the UK, they are afforded the best treatment at our expense and the same goes for when they visit other Nations.

Explain to me where I said he was head of state?

I didn't...

Perhaps you're speed reading and missing the point?

Korg.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Korg Trinity
Sorry but your source is someone who cant even use roman numerals. "Queen Elizabeth 11". Like you they don't seem understand the difference between the crown and the monarch.

Then perhaps you could learn to use Google yourself and save me the trouble of having to prove you wrong!

Korg.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Korg Trinity
My passport says British citizen.

Which town were you born?

Korg?

Somewhere on the Welsh coast, what difference does that make? Wales is a constituent country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, you know, the internationally recognised state which has a seat on NATO, the UN, EU and all the rest of it. The UK issues passports to English, Welsh, Scottish, and Northern Irish folk marked 'British Citizen'.
What on Earth does the town I was born in have to do with any of that?

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken
I'll have a lemon curd slice please.
Stop bleating like a lost lamb on the hillside, you made the assertion and I shot it down. Be less specific in future perhaps, then I may have nothing to come back at ya with.

Ok so I forgot to mention some distant islands that the British didn't slaughter and are doing good now...what about Sykes Picot, Mughal Empire, The Great Game with Russia, etc. !!! What about the wiping out of natives in North America? Still holds true, so so sorry I forgot about good old Bahrain

You'll find that most of the Native Americans were wiped out after the British were evicted by the Americans. Prior to that, we had good relations with the Natives.

Sykes-Picot - How come only the Uk is getting the blame here? How about France?

Great Game - that was as much to contain Russian expansionism as anything. Had we not engaged them, Russia would rolled over India and possibly China, forming the worlds largest Empire.

It's odd you're only singling out the UK for criticism here because when judged by the standards of the time, the British Empire was quite benevolent and certainly not the worst by a long shot.