If God created everything, why does religion contradicts so many things??

originally posted by: Kusinjo
a reply to: Tangerine

I actually understand quite well. And you didn't answer my question. Okay, I will humor you with an example of proof. Which I know you will refute and deny. You claim that you can't prove a negative but that is exactly what the big bang theory proposes. There was nothing and from nothing came everything. Yet you will expect people to believe that under that line of reasoning the earth just happened to float, over billions of years, the exact spot it needed to be to support life, by accident. AND the moon just happened to be in the right spot as well to have just the right amount of gravitational pull to keep the oceans from spilling over all the continents and washing back and forth destroying all life as we know it on a daily basis, again, by accident. Want more?....

I asked you to prove your claim that God exists and created humans and you respond with questions. Surely, you can distinguish between questions and testable evidence.

originally posted by: Tangerine in reply to veteranhumanbeing

Tangerine: Why the debate about what God created? The debate should start with the existence of God. Until there's testable evidence proving that God exists, the rest is tinsel on an imaginary tree.

VHB: Why not debate the BOSS, unless you think there were separate Gods creating differing things (tree god, cloud god, rock god etc). You are not about to blame this on the Earth God (it does exist) if only so as a place for us to STAND UPRIGHT UPON (we can't float). Discussing any proof God exists as a material being other by way of its EVIDENT creations is ridiculous; as it does not, It is simply an information gathering system (FORCE) of binary 1s and 0s data bits (not excluding strong and weak forces, magnetism and fields). This is highly theoretical and you know that, however I'm up to challenge if you are. Have you noticed how we are (as humans) actually treading in the same footprints of discovering what God is? We are mimicking it; and so doing will discover all of those things hidden.

Tangerine: God's evident creations? Hm. I see nothing evident. In fact, I see no creations. Where is the testable evidence that humans, for example, were created rather than evolved? Where is the testable evidence that a tree was created? Testable evidence, please.

[quote)VHB: are you living in the physical world of matter and possess a reasoning ability, senses; self/free will and have the faculties to discriminate? I suppose the "tree" is a tricky one. Usually a seed is wind blown and naturally plants itself, or taken and planted by others, then it grows into a 'seedling' and if not eaten by native preditors (usually deer or rabbits) will grow into a mature plant ONLY IF the EARTH GOD waters it. I think the tree evolved from the Simian Ape specie but a unnatural glitch or MUTATION in one of the DNA strands caused it to grow ROOTS instead of feet.

Tangerine: In other words, you can't answer my question by providing an iota of testable evidence proving that humans or trees were created by a supernatural deity. Thank you.

VHB: Thanking you as well. In other words you cannot provide an iota of testable evidence proving that humans or trees were NOT created by a supernatural deity.

Tangerine: it's impossible to prove a negative. Moreover, the onus is on the person making the positive claim (ie. God exists and created you) to prove the claim via testable evidence. That's what I'm asking you to do.

Veteranhumanbeing; You just proved it. "ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE A NEGATIVE". There is no creation if exists as a negative mute point. Systems are designed to profligate through positives (GROW ITSELF into a better awareness/being).I make no claims I leave those distinctions to the God Creator to explain itself TO YOU PERSONALLY via a candy gram (land shark knocks on your door). Why has your being in the state of un enlightenment become my problem?

Tangerine: Mute? LMAO. AS expected, you couldn't cite an iota of testable evidence and, having been embarrassed, you're now posting pure gibberish.

VHB:You are not answering my questions. YOU COULDNT CITE AN IOTA OF TESTABLE EVIDENCE PROVING GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Tell me something I do not already know. Your ignorance of the universe and how it works through a creator being is NOT MY BURDEN to bear (its all on you to humble yourself, put in some time discovering what mechanism allowed for the how and why you incarnated).

Tangerine: I refer you to a good high school science class and a logic class. You will learn that it is impossible to prove a negative. Well, maybe you won't learn it but it will be taught. Good luck to you.

As in using YOUR OWN high school level logic/science class graduation reasoning, did you figure it was at all possible to prove a positive or intimidate me?

a reply to: Tangerine

Like I said before. There is no proving anything to a person that doesn't want to be proven wrong. I feel I gave you what you asked for yet you have not even attempted to answer the ANY of the questions I posed to you. I will rephrase my statement from earlier so you will have no choice but to respond to it as a presentation of proof. I will also ask you a straight forward question that I expect you to answer, but only if you expect me to take you seriously.

1. God created Humans and tells us how he did it with DNA.

2. Something cannot come from nothing. Your words. "You cannot prove a negative." Therefore, going by your assessment, the universe does not exist. Nothing exists.

My question to you: How do expect believers to stop believing in a creator that they can not prove to your acceptance, yet you cannot prove to our acceptance the theories put in place by science (and changed constantly) are right? I am not asking you to prove God doesn't exist, I am asking you to prove that the popular scientific standards of the origins of the universe are correct. Or at least pick one of those working theories and tell me why you BELIEVE it is the right one.

a reply to: Xeven

I know what you mean, both my father and my father in law suffer from cancer, I just went to a series of test and painful biopsy because a false positive, very worst 3 weeks of my life, but at the end while waiting on results I came to the conclusion that, hey life is too short and worrying doesn't fix anything, doesn't cure anything and neither makes things any better.

I know that this life is not all that is out there, I know that is more that we don't know, perhaps our human flesh dies but we are more than that.

My test were negative, now I am fighting a bad cold due to the stress and been in the hospital too many times in the last three weeks, this is the worst time of the year to even be close to any Hospital anyway.

Life in earth with the goods and bad is just a stage and something we chose to live as part of experiencing what it means to be human.

a reply to: Kusinjo

My question to you: How do expect believers to stop believing in a creator that they can not prove to your acceptance, yet you cannot prove to our acceptance the theories put in place by science (and changed constantly) are right?

There is no proving anything to a person that doesn't want to be proven wrong.

there is your answer.

there is nothing wrong with being wrong in itself. the complications arise when you have evidence that you are incorrect and you continue as though that evidence doesnt exist. yes, science makes mistakes. yes, science is always improving on theories and sometimes scrapping them entirely in favor of a new one. that means that if something turns out to be wrong, you know we arent ashamed of admitting it and making the necessary corrections. that is progress. that is measurable change between ignorance and education.

there is no measurable change to be observed in religion because it is not based in the material. it is based in the immaterial, which has the added benefit of being untestable and therefore infalsifiable. it cannot be proven wrong, and therefore cannot be proven right. and therefore, such things are ineligible to be treated as fact except in the perfect understanding that you are choosing to accept it as fact simply because you want to.

a reply to: johndeere2020

In short .. Money is not the root of all evil..
Religion is.. look around .. look back in history..
and you will see that all religion has brought is misery and death
on a grand scale.

The sooner the human race evolves past this mumbo jumbo the better
off we will be.

a reply to: TzarChasm
Actually, I understand what you are saying, but what you are missing is the fact that Science and Religion (and I mean in the general sense and not the authoritarian sense that both are guilty of. Just as many oppressive rules have been instituted due to scientific research as religion, but that is a different subject ) are related and intermingle in many ways. I mentioned earlier that we all contain a pineal gland in our brains which is basically the epicenter of our consciousness in our minds, yet it is physical and governs the part of our minds that interpret all of our emotions. Science does not make mistakes. People do. God does not make mistakes. People do. God is the consciousness of science. As I asked before and no one seems to want to acknowledge or address the question. If we are conscious beings, self aware, HAVING consciousness, than why is it so difficult to believe that we are created from consciousness. It all boils down to the simple fact that people don't like the implications of what it means to be GIVEN control over their own lives. That simply, if there was a GOD, he would take care of us and not let bad things happen to us. There are plenty of observable testable MATERIAL evidences of a creator and explanations that give you something to work off of. But even in Science, people must LEARN the processes before they can test them. If you do not understand what an experiment is and the rules to go about it, then you will be fumbling in the dark. As far as Religion goes, it is the same. If you have a literature specialist teaching physics there is going to be the chance that you are not learning physics correctly. So do you quit and say physics doesn't exist because this idiot is teaching it wrong? OR do you just come to terms with the fact that maybe he should have stayed a literature teacher?

Both Science and Religion have been around a long time and neither are going anywhere soon. I think people need to come to terms with that and realize that, when you really take a close look, they both have similar pros and cons. A few examples.

Laws: Laws are made generally to protect people. That, I am sure, everyone can agree with. However they are also made to oppress people. Both Clergyman AND Scientists have been bought and influenced to to preach/teach a certain value that will give the buyer the desired outcome.

Belief: I do it because GOD said to. I do it because SCIENCE said to.
The priest KNOWS what he is talking about. The scientist KNOWS what he is talking about.

Wars are fought over religion. Science vaporized 110,000 people in a matter of 10 secs. and many more in a matter of days, weeks, months, years. (that is not counting the invention of firearms, bio, and chem weapons, bombs and airplanes)

It is my opinion that Religion and Science are BOTH equally dangerous and beneficial to society. You would be hard pressed to deny that unless you are suggesting that we just find a way to remove that little pineal gland and become unbelieving unloving unhating un warring lifeless husks wandering around just doing what needs to be done in order to keep breathing.

a reply to: marg6043
You need to let your body know YOU are in charge and disallow any mutation. Most walking around humans do not realize their bodies are incubators perceiving themselves to be without a 'ruler'.

a reply to: Kusinjo

I mentioned earlier that we all contain a pineal gland in our brains which is basically the epicenter of our consciousness in our minds, yet it is physical and governs the part of our minds that interpret all of our emotions.

perhaps that suggests the nature of consciousness.

Science does not make mistakes. People do. God does not make mistakes. People do. God is the consciousness of science. As I asked before and no one seems to want to acknowledge or address the question. If we are conscious beings, self aware, HAVING consciousness, than why is it so difficult to believe that we are created from consciousness.

because no one has yet provided a satisfactory example of a "creator consciousness", nor proven that one exists or could exist outside of speculation. no supernatural genesis has been proven.

It all boils down to the simple fact that people don't like the implications of what it means to be GIVEN control over their own lives. That simply, if there was a GOD, he would take care of us and not let bad things happen to us. There are plenty of observable testable MATERIAL evidences of a creator and explanations that give you something to work off of.

do these material evidences conclusively point to a supernatural force or is that just one of the more fringe theories available?

Belief: I do it because GOD said to. I do it because SCIENCE said to.
The priest KNOWS what he is talking about. The scientist KNOWS what he is talking about.

so if you land in the hospital for some unfortunate reason, which will you be asking for first? the medicine or the priest?

or say you happen on some poor soul who has had a bad accident. which do you grab, your cell or your bible?

a reply to: TzarChasm

It's futile to attempt to explain these things to people who can not reason critically, can not distinguish between belief and fact and have no understanding of basic science even to the point of understanding the scientific method. Years of attempts to do so have taught me that time is better spent focusing on preventing these people from instituting theocracy. That is not to say, however, that pointing out their glaring illogic isn't of value in the sense that others who can reason witness it.

originally posted by: rigel4
a reply to: johndeere2020

In short .. Money is not the root of all evil..

You misquoted the verse. It never said "money is the root of all evil".

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: TzarChasm

It's futile to attempt to explain these things to people who can not reason critically, can not distinguish between belief and fact and have no understanding of basic science even to the point of understanding the scientific method. Years of attempts to do so have taught me that time is better spent focusing on preventing these people from instituting theocracy. That is not to say, however, that pointing out their glaring illogic isn't of value in the sense that others who can reason witness it.

As if I came out of the womb with a Bible in my hand!! I came from that position above, I've only been a believer for about 15 years now.

In effect, been there done that, moved on. Michael Behe's book on microbiology destroyed my belief than man evolved.

because religion (all of it, take your pick) is crap. total fantasy. the sooner nobody lives their lives according to the invented doctrines of some notional spiritual phantom, the better.

God created you. No "if".... Mankind created religions and all contradictions therein.

There is no simpler explanation.

originally posted by: ausername
God created you. No "if".../quote]

Cite the testable evidence proving this claim of fact.

a reply to: Tangerine

All the proof you need in this world is within your very own "consciousness"

The answers are within your questions, in your identity, your true identity. Your soul...

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Tangerine

All the proof you need in this world is within your very own "consciousness"

The answers are within your questions, in your identity, your true identity. Your soul...

As I suspected, you don't have an iota of testable evidence.

a reply to: Tangerine

There is no proof that could possibly satisfy you. So I agree.

It's a tired old debate. In the end it is pointless. You will meet your creator, then and only then will a skeptic believe.

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Tangerine

There is no proof that could possibly satisfy you. So I agree.

It's a tired old debate. In the end it is pointless. You will meet your creator, then and only then will a skeptic believe.

So what happens if God turns out to be a bigger skeptic than Tangerine; I can hear the conversation now; God says: "What are you doing here?". Skeptics would say: "I NEED PROOF" and I don't have anywhere else to go that otherwise may/would have a 'potential positive outcome' for my disbelief in the non existence of God or my supposed eternal soul; you will make allowances and forgive me" (I can get the questions answered here). God says: "You realize I created Satan (to answer the uncertainty of your existence), I gave you free will to make choices; the last destination elevator answer is to your left; just press the down button labeled 'yellow abyss' where you will actually confront your higher selves existing and have this memorable debate arguing amongst YOURSELF/selves.

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Tangerine

There is no proof that could possibly satisfy you. So I agree.

It's a tired old debate. In the end it is pointless. You will meet your creator, then and only then will a skeptic believe.

You're right. There's isn't an iota of testable evidence. I could say you'll meet Gandalf some day and believe in him. What would be the point of saying that?