If God created everything, why does religion contradicts so many things??

a reply to: NOTurTypical

All God did was give His creatures the ability to either choose to love Him, or rebel. The latter, sadly, being a viable option for a free will being.

i dont understand how not loving god is automatically considered an act of rebellion. would the phrase "god is a jerkwad" count as treason in his opinion?

originally posted by: johndeere2020

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
Because it's a troll post, that's why I said the other member should ignore it. The OP of this thread and title already presupposes that God exists for sake of argument.

Ehem:

Matthew 10:34-35
Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;…

The bible itself shouts "I am confusion!!" and christians in particular don't hear it.

Well yes, that very thing happened in the first century with the Jews. Many turned in their fellow family members to the temple authorities for being followers of Jesus. Even happens to this day in Muslim nations, or atheist governments like North Korea. Christians are sold out by members of their own household.

Uncovering the Jewish Context of the New Testament

Jewish New Testament scholar Amy-Jill Levine reveals what Jews (and Christians) should know about Christian scripture and Jesus the Jew

scholar Amy-Jill Levine, for much if not all of the New Testament is Jewish literature. She points out that Jesus the Jew is the first person in recorded history to be called “Rabbi,” and Paul is the only undisputed first-century Pharisee from whom we have written records.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org...

Discovering the Jewish Jesus

To wrench Jesus out of his Jewish world destroys Jesus and destroys Christianity.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org...

The problem is our understanding of historical events.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

The fruit only gave man the knowledge of right and wrong,

Which proves that, according to scripture, "Good and Evil" (different from "right and wrong"), existed, at least in the mind of this hypothetical God. If it existed, according to scripture, God created it.

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…

a reply to: windword

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…

well, there you have it. your sole purpose is to be of the greatest possible convenience to the king of kings. his whim is your destiny and your passion. not to pressure you or degrade you or anything.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

She points out that Jesus the Jew is the first person in recorded history to be called “Rabbi,”

The term wasn't coined until the 3rd century. Jesus was called "rabbi" in retrospect, not during the 1st century, as they edited the term into the story.

Rabbi is not an occupation found in the Hebrew Bible, and ancient generations did not employ related titles such as Rabban, Ribbi, or Rab to describe either the Babylonian sages or the sages in Israel.

The titles "Rabban" and "Rabbi" are first mentioned in the Mishnah (c. 200 CE).

The term was first used for Rabban Gamaliel the elder, Rabban Simeon his son, and Rabban Johanan ben Zakkai, all of whom were patriarchs or presidents of the Sanhedrin. The title "Rabbi" occurs (in Greek transliteration ῥαββί rhabbi) in the books of Matthew, Mark and John in the New Testament, where it is used in reference to "Scribes and Pharisees" as well as to Jesus

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: windword

Which proves that, according to scripture, "Good and Evil" (different from "right and wrong"), existed, at least in the mind of this hypothetical God. If it existed, according to scripture, God created it.

I think there is a disconnect someplace with you understanding that those feelings or thoughts are an abstract. This is what an abstract means:

existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.

"abstract concepts such as love or beauty"

It's not a material thing which are "creations" of God.

Colossians 1:16

I haven't denied He created the physical reality or the spiritual (angels/heaven).

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yeah, there's disconnect, because you're not making any sense.

Let me change directions, a bit. Does love exist? Where does love come from? Where does hate come from? Is (your) God an angry and jealous god? Do the scriptures claim that (your) God plants lies on the lips of and in the minds of those he chooses to, so that they may be deceived? Does God harden the hearts of those he chooses to?

a reply to: windword

Yeah, there's disconnect, because you're not making any sense.

But that's not my fault. I only have the capacity to explain something to you, I cannot understand it for you. Abstracts aren't material "things".

You seem totally unconcerned that I have said a few times that God also did not create "good" or "love" either, those are also abstracts.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: windword

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…

well, there you have it. your sole purpose is to be of the greatest possible convenience to the king of kings. his whim is your destiny and your passion. not to pressure you or degrade you or anything.

Yep, that's sovereignty.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: windword

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…

well, there you have it. your sole purpose is to be of the greatest possible convenience to the king of kings. his whim is your destiny and your passion. not to pressure you or degrade you or anything.

Yep, that's sovereignty.

your satisfaction at being treated like a commodity confuses me.

where is your democratic spirit.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Abstracts aren't material "things".

The tree whose fruit was the "Knowledge of Good and Evil" contradicts your idea that your God didn't create abstracts. You haven't successful explained that paradox away to my satisfaction.

Please answer my previous questions with regard to (your) God not being responsible for abstract reaction:

Does love exist?

Where does love come from?

Where does hate come from?

Is (your) God an angry and jealous god?

Do the scriptures claim that (your) God plants lies on the lips of and in the minds of those he chooses to, so that they may be deceived?

Does God harden the hearts of those he chooses to?

a reply to: windword

The tree whose fruit was the "Knowledge of Good and Evil" contradicts your idea that your God didn't create abstracts.

How so? The magic fruit only opened up understanding of knowledge. The knowledge to know the difference between right and wrong.

I can't even sit here and say the devil created evil, it's an abstract, an action or inaction of what is good, another abstract.

Does love exist?

I suppose it does. I mean it's not a tangible physical thing, I would say it's a feeling we come up with in our brain.

Where does love come from?

Not sure, I would say electrical stimulations somewhere in the brain.

Where does hate come from?

I would say the same.

Is (your) God an angry and jealous god?

Yes.

Do the scriptures claim that (your) God plants lies on the lips of and in the minds of those he chooses to, so that they may be deceived?

I dunno, I do know though that the NT says that in the end times He will allow a "strong delusion" from satan to happen that will be quite believable, and it will even be so believable that some of the elect will buy into it.

Does God harden the hearts of those he chooses to?

Yes, Pharaoh specifically. But it's often confused that He physically made him become stubborn. What God did is remove His hand that was convicting Pharaoh that he was wrong. Pharaoh already had a hard heart before Moses met him. Quite often he was sorrowful and agreed to let the Jews go, then changed his mind.

originally posted by: Tangerineoriginally posted by: veteranhumanbeing
]originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: johndeere2020

Christfishenstein: Everything has to contradict God....You just don't understand it, God wants you to find him ON YOUR OWN! You must believe, if you don't and let God into your life, everything will seem to contradict everything else....See for yourself, I dare you...Open up and let God in, you will have a new outlook on this topic!

VHB: There seems to be no (reality check) teachers of this in the Western world; and it is a travesty of information lost; even though Master Jesus taught the same ideology as the Hindus/Buddhists (somehow does not translate).

Tangerine: Master Jesus, as you call him, probably never existed. At least there isn't an iota of contemporaneous documentation (ie. historical evidence) proving that he did. Even if he did, not a word of the Bible was written by anyone who witnessed him "teaching" anything.

I never said he DID exist in the 3rd dimension. I have the idea, a yes or no 50/50 proposition that he was a nine dimensional being that was not made of actual matter/human that incarnated. Jesus might have been an idea form "overlay" only. You have no argument with me. I am open minded enough to consider other possibilities that might explain why he never wrote a gospel according to Jesus. As far as overlays go, may have existed as a template in an entirely different dimension (the 5th) and worked well enough there (as a trial experiment) to attempt it here; some would call it the sneak attack paradigm shift of ages no one noticed.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

How so? The magic fruit only opened up understanding of knowledge.

Knowledge of something created and of something that existed before Adam and Eve "knew" anything.

The knowledge to know the difference between right and wrong.

Not "right and wrong", Good and Evil"

Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Good and evil are subjective constructs created upon the viewpoint of the observer, in this case "God".

Does God harden the hearts of those he chooses to?


Yes, Pharaoh specifically. But it's often confused that He physically made him become stubborn. What God did is remove His hand that was convicting Pharaoh that he was wrong. Pharaoh already had a hard heart before Moses met him. Quite often he was sorrowful and agreed to let the Jews go, then changed his mind.

All examples of your God playing "head games" and creating abstract thoughts and conflict in peoples' minds for his own enjoyment.

Geez. The very nature of religion is abstract! Especially the Trinity, sacrifice for sin and eternal salvation, confession of (abstract) sins, baptism, the Eucharist, it's all abstract!

a reply to: windword

Knowledge of something created and of something that existed before Adam and Eve "knew" anything.

I think I have identified your issue. You think for some reason that abstracts "exist".

They don't, they are immaterial. The definition of "abstract" provided earlier said the same thing, I think either you didn't read the copy/pasted definition or you reject it only to try and prove your original point.

Geez. The very nature of religion is abstract! Especially the Trinity, sacrifice for sin and eternal salvation, confession of (abstract) sins, baptism, the Eucharist, it's all abstract!

CORRECT! You might be catching on afterall. They exist in our minds to discuss things, but they are not physical things we can touch. Well, maybe baptism water. But it's still water whether or not someone is being baptized.

When we confess our "sins" we are not confessing some material thing we possess, we are confessing something we did or did not do that we were told to do. It's an abstract. By Jove, I think you have it.

IMO the simplest answer to the OP is...

God created the universe, so this is the starting point.
God created man, and gave man choice.

How we got to this point is not a matter of creation, but that of man making choices throughout history. Why are we here? We are here to learn something in this life.

Religion is a construct of man. We do not need churches to have a relationship with God, that is something that is inherent to our creation. Does religion get used by people for their purposes, the answer is yes, people use religion as a tool for evil and for good. The way in which is t is used is a matter of man's choice. Its always been about choice, people just need to realize that they are not bound to follow anyone, you always have a choice and they should use the knowledge they gain in this life and make the best choices they can make.

Another point is the whole, god is evil, because he lets bad things happen or he lets people die. Let's look at that for God's perspective for a second. God is a nonlinear entity, time and space are not boundaries to him. Same with us, if we are made in his image, we too are nonlinear entities who have been placed in this moment to experience life as linear entities. I can imagine that such an experience would be extremely valuable for such a being. And a person cannot say that God forced this life on them, because we do not know if we chose this life or not. If we knew that we would know what we truly are and that would spoil this experience. So we are put here, given choice and we have a limited time to experience this plain of existence. To an entity such as this, life would be a precious experience and death of this life would be necessary, transitory and meaningless. Although those left behind would benefit from the experience of a loved ones passing.

While we live here, IMO there are only a few rules to follow as laid out by JC. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you... don't judge... and turn the other cheek. In other words, don't try to control the choices that other people make because it would seem to me to be the greatest sin to have the arrogance and hubris to interfere with God's gift of choice and to supplant God's judgement with your own. Much of religion has gone down this path of judgy interference, imo it was someone in the past who made a bad choices while attempting to consolidate power, but we are free to make our own choice about that.

So what is it all about, may be we are here to learn about the ethic of noninterference. As a powerful being, we could do great damage without learning pain, suffering, joy, love etc etc. It might be why self restraint is so important in this life, where a lack of self restraint can lead to injury, death and evil.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

By Jove, I think you have it.

Oh for Christ's sake! No I don't follow your logic for a second, not by a long shot! Honestly, I think you're just making this stuff up as you go along, just for the sake of argument.

If love isn't a real thing, why does God command US to love him!

Your God created "SIN" the moment he "Forbade" something ""WE" were otherwise free to do. It was your God's decision to deprive Adam and Eve of the Tree of Life, lest, he feared, they would become like him. It was not a natural causational reaction. Their doom was a curse.

As I quoted earlier:

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…

originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing

Tangerine: Actually, it's up to you to cite testable evidence proving that God exists.

VHB: You first have to prove to me you exist; by your own one point perspective? I cannot see you, however I trust in the higher being that was responsible for your creation.

NOTurTypical: Don't even entertain those posts.

VHB:My posts come with/feature an 'open bar' and free entertainment (what are your preferences music wise).

Tangerine: So you don't have an iota of testable evidence proving that God exists. Thought so.

I EXIST as do YOU. The argument is that the perfection of all material living beings on this planet were not accidental byproducts of rotting vegetation. Something initiated the formation of the living one celled amoeba (and at the speed the human developed would never have happened in a what 3 million year time span, ridiculous). The body systems are too perfect to be anything but coincidental. I would love to see the BOSS manifest, but as you are its representative could be tested. I imagine you have a blood type, finger pad/prints/paws, maybe even a tail? If I had one gripe, it would be the human was not given the eyes of a hawk, the hearing of an elephant, the land speed of a Cheetah, the nose of a bloodhound (oh yes and wings to fly). Not yet mentioned the complex ecosystems of insects half of which we haven't discovered yet. If you are an evolutionist, explain to me why the shark species in 350 million years of existance has not evolved at all (should be ruling the planet).

a reply to: windword

Oh for Christ's sake! No I don't follow your logic for a second, not by a long shot! Honestly, I think you're just making this stuff up as you go along, just for the sake of argument.

Apparently you don't then, sorry. Well, I suppose another time will not kill anyone:

existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.

Google def ^

1. thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances: an abstract idea.
2. expressing a quality or characteristic apart from any specific object or instance, as justice, poverty, and speed.
3. theoretical; not applied or practical:

dictionary.com

1. Existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence:

Oxford Dictionary


"sin", "evil", "love", "anger", "good" are abstracts and not a physical creation of God. They are ideas/thoughts that exist in the brain. They have absolutely no physical or spiritual existence.