UFOs & the Cold War: Project Palladium

a reply to: Bedlam

The original story I read comes from a UK scientist who contributed a column to the British Magazine "UFO Matrix" and revolved around the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident. (He also wrote a hard to find book about it all)



I know very little about radar technology so I cannot verify if these findings were accurate. But it seems that the investigation into such a subject was being made in 1980 and was observed to date back to WWII.

Thanks for the interest in this topic. It's still somewhat shrouded in mystery to me if I'm honest.

It's late evening here in Britain and I'll have to leave it to others to debate for at least a day or two now.

Real life intervenes once again.

Hopefully a few of the ATS gang will chip in with their thoughts 'til then.

a reply to: mirageman

Plasma formation is a really common thing to use industrially (neon lights are plasma!) and it's been the subject of study for things as far afield as fusion reactors. So I don't doubt it's been researched, plasma research has gone on since the 19th century at least.

There have been radars with absolutely huge power outputs in the 10cm range and shorter, and I don't recall hearing that any of them put out plasmoids, although it's a weird subject. I don't see anything about an H2S that wouldn't have also come up with other radars of similar type.

As far as sea level free floating plasma goes, the only intentional ones I've seen have been done with a laser, or of course big intentional plasma forming rigs like Marx generators feeding spark discharges. I have run into a really dramatic one in nature and no idea where or how the hell THAT one came about.

I have, however, seen some really FINE demonstrations of plasmoids done with lasers.

eta: and lots and LOTS of surface plasma formation...but not so much just out there as a blob.

a reply to: Bedlam

I follow.... except for the swamp gas and venus part.

I cant for the life of me figure out what you mean.....


Edit: i think i get it now after reading the rest of the posts!

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Bedlam

You think I'd make something so insane sounding up?

It's ATS. I find it hard to tell if someone's being sarcastic, literal, figurative or metaphoric at times, and I'm sure it goes both ways.

I've seen a LOT of things I couldn't tell you exactly what it was. So technically, it was a UFO sighting, I'd suppose. Some of them I now know what it was, and some not.

I've never heard something you could call a black triangle 'talk' in a chatty way, no. I have, however, seen them. The first time we saw one, the only thing it said was, very softly, "thup thup thup thup thup SSSS thup thup thup thup thup thup SSSS", and we thought it was some sort of pump in a building a few blocks away, but that turned out to be the sound reflecting off that building. From our vantage point below it, we couldn't hear anything coming directly from it. SSSS isn't quite right. It's a gas venting sound, but sort of deep, more like a thruster quad firing, not like a tire valve.

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: Bedlam

I follow.... except for the swamp gas and venus part.

I cant for the life of me figure out what you mean.....

I mean there are a lot of sightings of natural stuff that people mistake for UFOs, and also the gubmint tends to try to put real sightings into those categories so that calling something swamp gas is a meme.

To the point I once facetiously suggested to some folk we were working for that they should name projects Hot Air Balloon, Swamp Gas, Venus, and the like, so that if anyone saw the thing, we could say "No, that was Hot Air Balloon. What you saw last week was Swamp Gas" and then they could say they didn't lie to the voting public.

My sense of humor is often not appreciated, sad to say. My suggestion that we rename a CAC system "Federal Employee Computerized Entry System" actually drew their wrath.

a reply to: Bedlam

No I meant 'talk' as in talk. Via 'telepathy', electro-magnetic
stimulation of my cortex, via nannite infestation or via
plasma currents - I have no idea.

And the one I saw wasn't one of those 'fakes' everyone talks
about.. no jet engines. No exhaust. No visible propulsion
system. I really doubt blimps look like that and fly mach
15 and do all the other thing.

I'm sure the thing could have made me popcorn
for me if it had wanted to --and I say "IT" as it seemed to
act like an artificial intelligence.

No thup thup thup. No ssss. No anything.

I could hear cars from the freeway 2 miles away, but not
anything physical from that 'craft'. I heard a moth for god's
sake flying by a few feet away..

This is why I go with the 'dual theory' on such things..

I'll buy that some slightly high tech aircraft exist;
but nothing like 'this'.

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

This is so fascinating I copy and pasted it into a special folder on my PC!

I had no idea they were doing plasma research at Rendlesham.

This fits perfectly with my theory. All this plasma used as technology
fits exactly with my theory.

Thanks

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Can't say as one's ever talked to me telepathically.

A half dozen or so of us did see one for the first time, though, like I told you. We were there doing a different project, went outside (wee hours of the AM) to wake up as we had done about that time every night.

And while we stood there freezing and shooting the #, we heard from down the empty street what sounded like an air compressor running, although it was so common sounding we hadn't really paid it any attention. Then the other sound started, and it was soft enough we didn't pay THAT any attention either, as it sounded like a vent popping open down the street on the possible air compressor.

Then we noticed that the sound quality was weird, not open desert area but more muffled like inside a building. Someone commented on it, then one guy said 'where did the moon and stars go', and we all looked up at this flat black area right overhead, and that's when the lights came on. And it went up slowly until you could sort of see the outline of it against the stars, and it went thataway, zip! No sonic boom, nothing.

We went back in, and everyone was looking at us and grinning before we said anything. Nothing was mentioned about it at all, though. Contractor harassment, I tell ya.

a reply to: Bedlam

Why do you associate the air compressor noise with the BTUFO?

If it was truly so enormous, how could it have been parked nearby?
Or are you not claiming it was seen 'taking off'?

If you can say, were you NOT near a military base? That would be
more interesting if you were not.

Thanks,

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

Really top post!

This is the quality of post that all ATSers should seek to attain.

Thanks & cheers!

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Bedlam

Why do you associate the air compressor noise with the BTUFO?

Because as it slowly raised up, the volume of the noise faded away to nothing, and it became obvious it was a reflection off the metal building.

If it was truly so enormous, how could it have been parked nearby?
Or are you not claiming it was seen 'taking off'?

I don't know where it was 'parked'. We were outside, and as far as I know, it came down straight on top of us. None of us paid much attention to "up" until it started sounding like we were boxed in. It's hard to explain. It got muffled and flat sounding. That's when someone looked up.

If you can say, were you NOT near a military base? That would be
more interesting if you were not.

On one, actually.

eta: way off track. PM me if you like, it's too good a thread to derail badly

a reply to: Bedlam

OK.

But with UFO threads we sometimes take a related detour
for 50+ pages and then get back on topic.

Yes, this is a very good thread and I don't want to damage it;
I'd love to discuss the OP's ideas further.

Kev

Re: Plasma/s 'n Radar

mirageman,

Thank you very much for the great thread, I have learned a tremendous amount, from this one and your others.

I have pulled out some of what I believe to be relevant material from the Executive Summary of Project Condign's report, UAP in the UKADR.

Please excuse the images in lieu of simple text, I was working with a .pdf file.



The rationale for the statement that the “charged masses can appear as visual, infra-red and radar targets” can be found in “UAP volume 2 Parts D and E” here. I figured the summary would do for general purposes.

One of the things that I have found interesting about the UAP/UKADR report is that it discusses a natural phenomenon involving plasma/s that interact with the human brain and the possibility of the phenomenon being somehow used by others, specifically other governments than the UK, in un-natural ways.

I don't know: maybe the radar-created foo-plasmas tap in to the same natural process as creates Project Condign's Bouyant Plasma Formations which the report suggests in it's final analysis to be interacting with the brain in some way to create the surfeit of what people are experiencing as the “UFO phenomenon”. The “Foo” requires certain weather conditions to exist; it's the same for Project Condign's plasmas.

Anyhow, I wanted to add that to the discussion as the “Decoys” mentioned above provide a basis for how plasmas might be used in an analogous way to radar-spoofing. Unlike the radar-spoofing, though, these “decoy” “charged masses” would be visible to people, like their natural counterparts.

a reply to: Bybyots

Yes, indeed sir, that is straight from the horses mouth.

Yep; a small part of my coordinated UFO high strangeness
theory is that natural plasmas and artificially generated
plasmas affect each other and humans as well.

A substantial part of my book discusses this process.

Kev

a reply to: Bybyots

Plasmoids do indeed make nice radar returns. You can also sort of tune that by adjusting the electron temperature, although I'm not sure how much of that you can do at sea level.

Plasmoids also tend to emit RF. It is a trick to get them to not. If you are making them with a laser, you can really work this part - two lasers with disparate spectra can mix in a plasmoid and make all sorts of RF - the plasma is non-linear and energetic, and can actually not only mix but amplify, trading off plasma energy for RF output.

This effect is believed to be one reason why PIKL/PEP plasma bloom weapons produce a lot of its physical side effects when used against critters and people. It's not only concussion, but there's a burst of high amplitude RF electric and magnetic fields in a wide spectrum at point blank range that's believed to cause the "stun effect" you get - it sort of jams your nervous system by shock with the e-field and internally induced currents with the h-field.

So I could even see a plasmoid causing mental scrambling at very close range, but it would be burning energy to do that and wouldn't last long.

a reply to: Bedlam

So I could even see a plasmoid causing mental scrambling at very close range, but it would be burning energy to do that and wouldn't last long.

Yeah, that's the same thing that Project C. says, and the report goes over a variety of proposed ways that a natural one might get energy to persist. The un-natural ones, I suppose, would presumably be getting additional input from someplace (like the equipment that generates the Foo??).

You've worked with some neat stuff; what's the weirdest composite material you have ever handled?

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Bedlam
You've worked with some neat stuff; what's the weirdest composite material you have ever handled?

Still classified.

Man. That's sort of a tossup. They're all aerospace though.

a reply to: mirageman

So, what exactly is this? What's being said? That 70 years of carefully documented UFO sightings are nothing more than a bunch of radar tricks? Come on. I'm not even thinking about buying that.

What this looks like to me is a pathetic attempt to erase or explain away thousands and thousands of eyewitness (not simply radar) sightings.

Simply and absolutely:

No.

originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: mirageman

So, what exactly is this? What's being said? That 70 years of carefully documented UFO sightings are nothing more than a bunch of radar tricks? Come on. I'm not even thinking about buying that.

What this looks like to me is a pathetic attempt to erase or explain away thousands and thousands of eyewitness (not simply radar) sightings.

Simply and absolutely:

No.

I don't think that is what being said at all.

I have no doubt that CIA/military activity has probably accounted for ‘some’ UFO reports down the years. Yet there is also the issue of how eye witness sightings can be explained.