UFOs & the Cold War: Project Palladium

a reply to: lostgirl

What people don't get about actual
'spirituality' not the delysional nonsense
that passes for it in our ignorant culture,

is that actual spirituality is like having
unprotected sex with another being-
that's how intimate it is.

It's true whether you are attempting to
heal someone or attempting to
'summon a UFO' to someone.

So you can see my reticence.

Shaman for their tribe...their blood...
people who trust them with their
lives and the shaman trusts them
with his or her own life - that is
one thing.

'Strangers' from the Internet?

Ewwwww*

Also I don't want to try that experiment
if it would succeed....then I'd be 'son of
snippy' and I'd feed snippy mania...and
I want nothing to do with that.

I know that people are hungry...and I
want to (possibility) feed them a little..
but I don't want to be turned into yet
another self important deluded fool,
who is being 'played' by the 'Trickster'.

I am all for research however...to help
separate fact from fiction.

I might make an attempt like that for
the perfect person...I don't know who
that might be.

Kev

originally posted by: Bedlam

It depends on the generation. But triangular-ish.

Bedlam, as this thread is about Palladium, which thread is better suited to ask you about the crafts. I've been reading some of your various posts on ATS regarding these triangles, and I have to say, if they exist, they are mind-boggling. To the point that should someone ever ask me what my opinion is regarding UFOs, I'd probably be better of saying: "Yes, ET is visiting us", rather than: "You know what? They are ours, we have this incredibly advanced technology that looks like magic.", that way I might avoid being sent to the Bedlam...
Mind you, I'm not a physicist, just saying it in order not to derail technical threads.

Regards!

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Bedlam

USB drives don't go "pew pew pew".

Okay, okay, on topic: so...we know that they had this radar-spoofing "equipment". We have plenty of instances from the OP of the non-visible sort of radar-spoofing, only visible as radar 'blips', used for espionage and even pilot-training, and we have this quote from Leon Davidson, "“ECM + CIA = UFO"

On top of that we have the anecdotal stories of pilots flying along with this radar-spoofing "equipment" of "Foo Fighters", visible balls of light that they could see.

I'm not understanding how it is far-fetched at all to entertain the notion that maybe "they" got real good at creating the visible sort, the kind that can be seen by people. Folks have been willing to believe all sorts of stuff about "Foo Fighters", but not that they are possibly an unexpected artifact of radar spoofing that was accidentally discovered and put to "use"?

I certainly would not discount the possibility some 70 years on. In fact the existing documents available on ECM and this field do hint. But getting the 'smoking gun' evidence is the hard part.

a reply to: mirageman

Thanks for getting back to me on that, mirageman. I was all prepared to be surprised if I were the only one entertaining the thought, and then I realized that I've been hanging around ATS all these years so I had better check.

If there are these deep, dark secret-projects that we hear about, and it sounds like there are, then I would think they would have scuttled the shiny radar-blob generating machinery ("Foo") off to "Bedlam" (seems to be the popular analogy) immediately.

The proposed plasmas talked about in Project Condign are volatile and transient, possibly powered by things like Transient Luminous Events, also known as Upper-atmospheric lightning or colloquially as "red sprites" and "blue jets".

Interestingly enough, the UAP/UKADR report has a whole section that discusses how this volatility contributes to people's (experiencer's) reports of the unusual flight characteristics, enormous size and impossible acceleration displayed by the witnessed UAPs.

I think that is particularly interesting right now considering the conversation going on over at the Black Traingles and Breakaway Civs thread about the size of these craft and their acceleration capabilities.

"100 yards!", "As big as a football field", these are commonly heard assertions found in reports of flying triangles (rectangles, too). PC suggests that it is because the witnesses are seeing multiple points of light and filling in the rest with their minds ability to narrate-in-to-sense whatever the senses take in. I always thought that Mr. Mask might find that bit interesting as he is an artist and I suspect that it has to do with perspective and the fact that the eyes can only take in a depth of about 100 meters at a time. My point being that it has more to do with art than aliens.

So, yeah, as a layman the simple problem that I see in generating these sustained plasmas that are visible to the naked eye is continually providing a medium for them to exist in, that's why the weather had to be right, that's why a meteor would have had to have gone by for HAARP to make them. Seems to me that an aerosol would work, but anyone's guess is as good as mine.

Thanks again for your response.

Ciao,

originally posted by: Bedlam
This effect is believed to be one reason why PIKL/PEP plasma bloom weapons produce a lot of its physical side effects when used against critters and people. It's not only concussion, but there's a burst of high amplitude RF electric and magnetic fields in a wide spectrum at point blank range that's believed to cause the "stun effect" you get - it sort of jams your nervous system by shock with the e-field and internally induced currents with the h-field.

So let's see, we have warp drive, and phasers you really CAN set to 'stun'. Rumors of the 'transporter'. Only thing left is green babes in a leather bikini.

The power involved must be significant. These things would seem to be more potent than ordinarily ball lightning. Plus the longer duration...

If anything, the Mirage Men need to go all 1966 wave on us. Or we somehow find out a way to do it ourselves. The modern ARG model that would seem to be in use just doesn't deliver in terms of brown note inducing Keelian shenanigans. Its like comparing the modern CGI remake of the Thing to John Carpenters work back in 1982. Worlds apart in terms of quality. How Doty's successors are gonna respond to the deconstructivist trend is going to be interesting...

a reply to: Bybyots

How does your theory explain people who get within 100 feet
of these 'craft' ? This includes Bedlam. The one I saw couldn't have
been very far away as I could see every last visible detail, as if it
were 10 feet away. 100% opaque and right in your face is not the
same thing as some lights in the sky and the mind fills in what
it wants to see.

Jacques Vallee's Paper discusses in detail, how these sightings can't
be attributed to one simple explanation, as multiple, seemingly
opposed factors are nearly always present, thus deserving the
appellation "high strangeness".

Kev

originally posted by: mbkennel
So let's see, we have warp drive, and phasers you really CAN set to 'stun'. Rumors of the 'transporter'. Only thing left is green babes in a leather bikini.

I'm not sure which is worse, a PIKL or that Russian "sonic bullet" device. PIKL tends to burn you. But the sonic bullet can break bones at close range and high intensity. I guess a PIKL dialed up high enough would too, for that matter.

As far as green babes, this was one of my favorite scenes from Enterprise...



The old lady got ticked when I played it about 17 times on the Tivo, though. Not sure why.

eta: never mind, I don't think I can stay in the T&C and say what I had put here. It involved "Mons Venus" and went downhill from there.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

How does your theory explain people who get within 100 feet of these 'craft' ? This includes Bedlam. The one I saw couldn't have been very far away as I could see every last visible detail, as if it were 10 feet away.

100% opaque and right in your face is not the same thing as some lights in the sky and the mind fills in what it wants to see.

In the cases where it may be one of these highly energised naturally occurring plasmas, Project Condign is pretty exacting, right down to the levels of energy required to trip the temporal-trigger at different ranges; so I gather you haven't read any of it.

Link

Go to the link and click "View the item you were looking for", give it a moment to load and then click on "Volume 2" when you get there then find and click upon "UAP Volume 2 Part Q PDF", it's the last one, click on that, let the .pdf load, and scroll down to find "Working Paper #25", what you are looking for is on about page 5.

Project Condign covers a lot of material, not just the natural plasmas and their possible sources and how they might interact with the human temporal lobes. But since we are on the subject, the only thing that hits all "Six Layers of UAP Analysis" in your Vallee paper is the sequelae associated with the aura found in migraines, TLE and ecstatic seizures. Why they aren't thinking that is anyone's guess; it's like shooting ducks in a barrel.

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

How does your theory explain people who get within 100 feet of these 'craft' ? This includes Bedlam. The one I saw couldn't have been very far away as I could see every last visible detail, as if it were 10 feet away.

100% opaque and right in your face is not the same thing as some lights in the sky and the mind fills in what it wants to see.

In the cases where it may be one of these highly energised naturally occurring plasmas, Project Condign is pretty exacting, right down to the levels of energy required to trip the temporal-trigger at different ranges; so I gather you haven't read any of it.

Link

Go to the link and click "View the item you were looking for", give it a moment to load and then click on "Volume 2" when you get there then find and click upon "UAP Volume 2 Part Q PDF", it's the last one, click on that, let the .pdf load, and scroll down to find "Working Paper #25", what you are looking for is on about page 5.

Project Condign covers a lot of material, not just the natural plasmas and their possible sources and how they might interact with the human temporal lobes. But since we are on the subject, the only thing that hits all "Six Layers of UAP Analysis" in your Vallee paper is the sequelae associated with the aura found in migraines, TLE and ecstatic seizures. Why they aren't thinking that is anyone's guess; it's like shooting ducks in a barrel.

Which bit talks about plasma formation?

Optical imaging using a 10,000 frame-per-second high speed camera shows that sprites are actually clusters of small, decameter-sized (10–100 m, 30–300 ft) balls of ionization that are launched at an altitude of about 80 km (50 mi) and then move downward at speeds of up to ten percent the speed of light, followed a few milliseconds later by a separate set of upward moving balls of ionization.[8] Sprites may be horizontally displaced by up to 50 km (31 mi) from the location of the underlying lightning strike, with a time delay following the lightning that is typically a few milliseconds, but on rare occasions may be up to 100 milliseconds.'

This would be like a sprite in reverse I gather, and we'd need an active thunderstorm within fifty kilometers of the sighting location.

Bonus: stratocat.com.ar...

a reply to: Bybyots

Ah. We are back to me disagreeing 100% with all of your
points again.

But that's ok. I've come to like you.

Kev

a reply to: 1ofthe9

Which bit talks about plasma formation?

Ionospheric plasmas are found specifically in working paper 21, but plasmas are discussed in working papers 19 thru 21. You are in luck: all three can be found in Volume 2 Part P.



ETA: Hey, I wanted to add that if you download a full copy of the Executive Summary from the same link that I provided it has a nice guide to all of the working papers. Also, the Executive Summary stresses that the working papers are loosely compiled and meant to stand as a reference guide for evaluating UAP experiences; the Plasma/Lobe stuff is just part of it.

Here is a small example of its contents that is more germane to the topic of this thread...

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: 1ofthe9

Which bit talks about plasma formation?

Ionospheric plasmas are found specifically in working paper 21, but plasmas are discussed in working papers 19 thru 21. You are in luck: all three can be found in Volume 2 Part P.

physics.aps.org...

Might be of use.

I've looked at the OP and read most of the thread but I'm extremely skeptical about this type of radar spoofing technology.

If in fact this is how it really works, which I highly doubt, this type of radar spoofing technology would be able to render virtually all military and civilian radar useless.

This is not the case as military aircraft even today are still highly vulnerable to radar guided missiles. And the U-2 spyplane was shot down by a radar guided SAM, if it had such effective anti-radar capability how would this be possible.

In my opinion a lot of this super radar fakery is disinfo and even today appears to have little resemblance to reality. Why invest so heavily in stealth technology, which attempts to hide from radar. The history of air combat is full of aircraft being blown out of the sky by radar guided missiles, including the US, like in Vietnam, which was long after the 50s.

originally posted by: JimTSpock
I've looked at the OP and read most of the thread but I'm extremely skeptical about this type of radar spoofing technology.

If in fact this is how it really works, which I highly doubt, this type of radar spoofing technology would be able to render virtually all military and civilian radar useless.

This is not the case as military aircraft even today are still highly vulnerable to radar guided missiles. And the U-2 spyplane was shot down by a radar guided SAM, if it had such effective anti-radar capability how would this be possible.

In my opinion a lot of this super radar fakery is disinfo and even today appears to have little resemblance to reality. Why invest so heavily in stealth technology, which attempts to hide from radar. The history of air combat is full of aircraft being blown out of the sky by radar guided missiles, including the US, like in Vietnam, which was long after the 50s.

That is very logical Captain!

I said myself earlier in the thread.

In the Revisiting the 1952 Washington DC UFO Flap thread I did discuss a theory that, in certain weather, radar also caused ‘plasma’ in the atmosphere. Perhaps the two things in conjunction were being harnessed to create ‘UFOs’?

However I think we have to consider that ‘Project Palladium’ appeared in the 1960s. I could not find a direct reference to any ability to create “visual” phenomenon to accompany these false radar signals. Nor is there any indication that ‘tests’ were made during the 1950s prior to Palladium being implemented, let alone over Washington in 1952.

So once again we have the fingers of the intel boys firmly digging into another UFO pie and claiming ‘it was us!’. At other times the ET angle is encouraged, discouraged and debunked with equal measure.

But then again Radar and Electronic Counter Measure are continuously under development. The technology did not stand still and the offensive and defensive systems of today are way beyond those of the immediate post war years. It is a continual cycle to get the upper hand in times of conflict.

I can see where you are coming from in your argument. I can't tie up the loose ends myself.

But where are we at now with this type technology?

Most of the skirmishes of the last 30 years have seen Western forces with unrivalled air superiority.

a reply to: mirageman

Iraq twice and Afghanistan, neither had strong air forces. I agree and think you are correct however, there is a constant battle between radar, and other detection systems such as IR, and ECM and ECCM and stealth and other counter measures.
A direct US/west vs Russia and/or China battle may not have such a one sided result. Which seems to be a common theme here on ATS. WW3 Russia and China invade America! lol.