Vaccines Harmful, Ineffective: Mainstream Studies

originally posted by: ChiefD

As for the flu shot, yes I got it, just like I do every year. People who have gotten sick did not get their flu shot. Yeah, so it was only 23% effective, but it did work for me. Also, older people and people who have heart disease and that should always get a flu and pneumonia shot every year, as they may have weaker immune systems.

This whole anti vaccine thing comes out of the woodwork on a regular basis, and it's a bunch of bs. I've said it before and will say it again: Would you want your child to wind up with polio? Think about that before believing stupid twit celebrities who make ridiculous debunked claims that vaccines cause autism. Okay, I'm off my soapbox for now.

FWIW, the pneumonia vaccine is far from an annual event, and something that should be discussed with a doctor or pharmacist....same with the shingles vaccine.
www.webmd.com...
www.webmd.com...

As far as whether or not someone chooses flu vaccines, it is a personal choice....and not a reflection of a person's intellect.
I rarely get the flu, last time was maybe twenty years ago......and have never gotten a flu shot....same with my husband.

a reply to: soficrow

I know sophi, and it is a tricky thing staying confined and not subject to illness through social interaction especially during peak times of community sickness. What I have found is to remain on high alert status during the big push for vaccinations!

It is a hard call when we close our immune systems off to the exposure of others because then the bodies natural defenses have less to work with when we do become exposed and can even be hyper sensitive when we are casually exposed.

We have general protocols in place at home because the kids come in and wash hands after being at school and the public, but when the big push for vaccines are happening and or there are sick kids at school, they strip down and shower then wash clothes before even starting their afternoon or evening.

From what I have read we do have many members who take the jab each year due to their systems inability to fight the flu and their subjectivity to the more serious side affects from the illness's they are trying to avoid by taking the shot. Upper respiratory complications being the number one challenge with these folks.

Dr.s and healthcare in general follow the guidelines far too often to cover their buts without consideration of the long term effects from the tainted vaccines and their ability to weaken the very patients they are responsible for. Yet if a patient becomes ill or hospitalized the first question asked is if they took the flu shot.

When pressures and partial or even false information is given to patients by their most trusted source for their health and well being it is beyond tragic.

Vaccines should always be given after all the true facts have been seriously considered and not just a snap decision based on what the pharmaceutical companies are pushing because the $ has already changed hands and someone has to pay the bill. I am sure that whatever remains of the years batches gets covered through private insurance type plans.

There used to be a difference in what private Dr's received in their offices but it is all a high risk of contamination now with the vaccine companies all outsourced.

Gotta run, will jump back in later

a reply to: antar

My husband gets shingles.
And the shingles vaccine is pretty expensive.

So, it was something worth considering.

I went to a pharmacist I trust for some answers.

First, the vaccine is only effective a certain % of the time......I'll say 50% because I cannot remember.
Then, even if it is effective, it is only a certain % to control the disease......and I think that was about 33%.
Clearly, unless your health is bad, not an option.

We opted for natural remedies....L-lysine, B-complex vitamins, Olive Leaf Extract and Intenzyme Forte.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: kaylaluv

You can't control how you get sick.
Mammals evolved in the constant presence of fungi, bacteria, and virus. The immune system is highly efficient in dealing with all these. Recovering from Flu provides a holistic resistance against a wide spectrum of infection.

Hacking the immune system is a fairly recent technique. It hyper stimulates one of the 3 subsystems involved.

No easy, controllable way to get infected by live contagion. That's why the ignorant masses want quick fixes and hacks. All chemical hacks have trade-offs. Even tylenol.

What a pile of nonsense.
Yes, mammals did evolve in the presence of pathogens but guess what?
An awful lot of them died because of these pathogens.
So no, the immune system doesn't deal with them very well.

"It hyper stimulates one of the 3 subsystems involved"
Care to elaborate on that statement as to me that sounds like pseudo-scientific babble.

"Recovering from Flu provides a holistic resistance against a wide spectrum of infection."
What?
What does that even mean?
Are you using a random word generator?
Other than protecting against exactly the same strain of flu again, which infections does it resist against?
And you do realise that to recover from flu you have to actually GET the flu and that's the bad part.

You've not put any thought into your post at all have you?

If we lived in a society wherein health and medicine were not profit-driven industries then there would be no incentive to make substandard, tainted or dangerously manufactured treatments to be promoted and pushed through propaganda. While the breakthrough of vaccination science is sound its profit and fear-driven promotion and propaganda as well as a potential vehicle by malignant ideals and forces leaves the conscious individual in a quandary. Attempt to reap the benefits of advanced scientific application or face the realism that a medical industry and corrupt power structure may abuse the technology for personal gain or social manipulation.

Much proven success with many vaccines however I personally don't ever get a flu vaccine. Can't see the point in trying to pre-emptively stop a virus that mutates continuously. Certainly not when human evolution has created our immune system to deal with getting sick better than a vaccine against the flu does to prevent us getting sick.

As I said though some vaccines have been very effective and saved countless lives.

Mankind has Evolved along side the virus.
if you stop this, it all goes wrong!

a reply to: buddha

Which is why no one dies from viral infections, right? Evidently not. Vaccines give your immune the cheat sheet for defending against such infections. This is good, not bad.

originally posted by: soficrow
New studies from Canada, the US, Japan and Hong Kong support Canada's 2009 finding that seasonal flu vaccination almost doubled the risk of infection with pandemic flu - and does NOT provide higher protection than no vaccine.

This study does NOT say that. In fact, the article says:

In the 10 years since the B.C. lab invented more sensitive ways to conduct this type of sophisticated immune research, there’s never been an increase in flu illness among those vaccinated compared with the unvaccinated.

So the unvaccinated haven't fared worse than the vaccinated.

All the study says is that for those who received the vaccine for the first time, the vaccine provided better protection than for those who had gotten the vaccine in previous years as well.

Regardless of previous vaccination history, flu shots did protect against flu infections requiring medical care, Huong McLean of the Marshfield Clinic Research Foundation and her colleagues concluded in a September online issue of the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases. Protection was greatest among those who weren’t vaccinated previously.

You can not believe and not get vaccines, that's your human right to choose.

But when you have pneumonia or something that requires a long hospital stay and cutting edge care.... Sorry, none of that "poisonous medicine" for you.

Vaccines save lives. Period. Vaccines work and they work well. They are VERY, VERY CLEAR about the flu vaccine and the fact that they are guessing each year as to the strain. Make no mistake, the flu can be deadly and we are long overdue for another deadly outbreak. I get my flu shot every year and I get it for free. It IS NOT full of "deadly mercury" or any other such garbage. I am well aware that it may not even help me in any given year. I am also aware that the last time I had the flu was when I was like 12 and IT WAS AWFUL. Passing up a free shot that gives me even a 25% chance of NOT catching the flu seems utterly ridiculous to me. And like a previous poster pointed out...EVERYONE on this thread WILL go to the hospital and put your faith in "evil" modern medicine when you finally get cancer or whatever your honeysuckle tea won't cure. It's REALLY EASY to talk big about "bad medicine" when you are completely healthy. Really easy...and really disingenuous.

a reply to: nataylor

How dare you read the whole thing through!

I'd also like to point out how awful and misleading the title of the OP was. Like this refers to all vaccines.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Prezbo369

You've got nothing. Pull your pants up.

I know right! I have nothing but the esteemed scientific community behind me.....

.....whereas you have all of these laymen and their anecdotes.......

lol

a reply to: snowspirit

Sunscreens are OK. Exposure to sunlight only causes generation of Vitamin D but not it's ingestion. The 'D' is washed off easily and most of the time (in the USA and apparently white folks!!) bathing foil absorption.
It's in the sewerage.
The rats look great though!

a reply to: soficrow

And what about those in society who are vulnerable?

a reply to: Prezbo369

You must admit that vaccines for MMR (mumps , measles , rubella) , Polio and vaccines you take before you travel abroad to places like rural India and Africa are of a benefit to man kind though?

And what about the vulnerable in society - those people who without vaccination would die from flu regardless of natural immunity due to an immune suppressive disease?

I agree vaccinations should not be forced upon everyone , but you must surely agree in those circumstances stated above they are of benefit.

I also believe some parents put their child's health at risk by not having basic 21st century vaccines such as MMR , but that is their choice for their child and they are allowed to make it. But this attitude increases infectivity and gives the "old school" viruses, shall we say, a chance to mutate and become more harmful to others who have been immunised - as it interacts with the human genome. More chance for mutation results in higher susceptibility for change.

originally posted by: L.A.B
a reply to: Prezbo369

You must admit that vaccines for MMR (mumps , measles , rubella) , Polio and vaccines you take before you travel abroad to places like rural India and Africa are of a benefit to man kind though?

And what about the vulnerable in society - those people who without vaccination would die from flu regardless of natural immunity due to an immune suppressive disease?

I agree vaccinations should not be forced upon everyone , but you must surely agree in those circumstances stated above they are of benefit.

I also believe some parents put their child's health at risk by not having basic 21st century vaccines such as MMR , but that is their choice for their child and they are allowed to make it. But this attitude increases infectivity and gives the "old school" viruses, shall we say, a chance to mutate and become more harmful to others who have been immunised - as it interacts with the human genome. More chance for mutation results in higher susceptibility for change.

But, but, but...VACCINES DON'T WORK!!! AND THEY'RE DANGEROUS!!!

a reply to: L.A.B

The issue I have with the "it's their choice" argument is that it's a public health issue. A child with a compromised immune system who can't be vaccinated (or is allergic or the vaccine isn't effective enough for them) and getting seriously injured or dying because some ignorant parent decided vaccines were a conspiracy totally isn't cool. Me getting drunk off my ass and getting behind the wheel of my car isn't a personal choice because I have the potential to harm others. Likewise, reviving pre-vaccine era childhood diseases because of scientific ignorance and a sense of entitlement shouldn't be a personal choice either.

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: soficrow



Right on.



17 years ago I did a poll at work (healthcare) to see how many people took the seasonal flu shot and how many did not.



Those who took it, spent more time off for not only the flu but also other illness that I felt were directly related to a compromised immune system.



They keep making claims this year on the local news about this years vaccines not being made strong enough and that is why almost everyone who took the shot have been sick with not only the flu, but upper respiratory illness.



I know I know I am singing to the choir here, but I just wanted to join in the discussion from my perspective.

great point

the health groups will publish a study that says the shot does not give people the flu after they get it and many will read that and tell themselves the flu shot does not make people sick.

if they were being honest that would put out the numbers of how many get sick from the shot and not how many end up with the flu shortly after getting the shot.

they are tricky and know full well what they do to spin the truth

I think this is mainly bollocks.
No, I was wrong.
It's all bollocks.