Vaccines Harmful, Ineffective: Mainstream Studies

needs removing from thread

a reply to: jaffo

Are they , my friend who isn't vaccinated due allergen reasons (I'm in the UK , not U.S) has had mumps.

Granted it isn't as life threatening as it was once upon a time , but like somebody else has said:

The issue I have with the "it's their choice" argument is that it's a public health issue.

a reply to: jaffo

Exactly

a reply to: jaffo

vaccines take lives.

There is no way humanly possible to know how many people will die tomorrow.

Any intervention is just guess work.

Studies are flawed and bias toward the highest bidder.

I love the smell of the freshly vaccinated in the morning!

This stuff kills kids. . . . .
But seriously it should be by choice, no one should be forced to get vaccinated.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: jaffo

vaccines take lives.

They have saved untold millions of lives....

There is no way humanly possible to know how many people will die tomorrow.

Considering the length of time we've been administering vaccinations (way over 50 years), we do have a good idea that nothing terrible will happen tomorrow. However millions of people that would've died to a number of conditions they were protected against via immunization will wake up tomorrow.

Any intervention is just guess work.

Yeah, superstitions have no place in such a discussion.

Studies are flawed and bias toward the highest bidder.

You're making this world a worse place to live in by spreading such irresponsible nonsense.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
This stuff kills kids. . . . .
But seriously it should be by choice, no one should be forced to get vaccinated.

I find it amazing that people can be so willfully ignorant....

Look into the history of vaccinations, read up on small pox and how many children it killed in the last century, and how many children it kills today.

You are also making this world a worse place to live.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: jaffo

vaccines take lives.

There is no way humanly possible to know how many people will die tomorrow.

Any intervention is just guess work.

Studies are flawed and bias toward the highest bidder.

Yeah, this is logically flawed to the extent that I really have to assume you are just trolling. Which is, to be fair, an impression I am forming when I read almost all of your responses. I don't mean that as an AH attack, it's just an observation.

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
This stuff kills kids. . . . .
But seriously it should be by choice, no one should be forced to get vaccinated.

I find it amazing that people can be so willfully ignorant....

Look into the history of vaccinations, read up on small pox and how many children it killed in the last century, and how many children it kills today.

You are also making this world a worse place to live.

I know its a crazy story, small pox, those who got it and died where the ones vaccinated for it. Only those vaccinated got the pox, those who didnt did not.

Great point!

a reply to: AmenStop

I can never tell what's satire on this forum but just in case it isn't...

After vaccination campaigns throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in 1979.[5] Smallpox is one of two infectious diseases to have been eradicated, the other being rinderpest, which was declared eradicated in 2011.[16][17][18]

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: nataylor

Yeppers, it's controversial stuff alright. Fact remains though:

seasonal flu vaccination almost doubled the risk of infection with pandemic flu.

People who receive flu vaccines year after year can sometimes show reduced protection, an effect that Canadian infectious disease specialists say muddies public health messages for annual flu vaccine campaigns.

During the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, researchers at the B.C. Centre for Disease Control originally thought seasonal flu shots from 2008 might offer extra protection against the new pandemic strain. They were puzzled to find instead, seasonal flu vaccination almost doubled the risk of infection with pandemic flu.

a reply to: soficrow

Yeppers, it's controversial stuff alright. Fact remains though:

seasonal flu vaccination almost doubled the risk of infection with pandemic flu.

Except that the study does not seasonal vaccination "almost doubled the risk." The study showed those who had been vaccinated annually showed reduced protection compared to those who did not.

The study says this:

Current- and previous-season vaccination generated similar levels of protection, and vaccine-induced protection was greatest for individuals not vaccinated during the prior 5 years. Additional studies are needed to understand the long-term effects of annual vaccination.

In conclusion, we found that vaccination provided protection against medically attended influenza infection, regardless of prior vaccination history.

cid.oxfordjournals.org...



That does not say that vaccines are "harmful" or "ineffective." On the contrary, it says that the flu vaccine is effective.

See, this is exactly why the bandwagoning for both sides needs to stop immedietly.

Nobody can honestly say that all vaccines are 100% safe and effective.
Nobody can honestly say that all vaccines are 100% unsafe and ineffective.

Each vaccine should be looked at based on its own individual studies, tests, and history. All this bandwagoning has lead to an irrational war between people who blindly support ALL vaccines and people who blindly hate ALL vaccines. Both sides like to throw around the term "scientific illiterate" but both sides are guilty of being scientifically illiterate.

If one of the thousands of available vaccines is determined through rational science to not be very safe or effective, it should be pulled. Trying to defend something that is potentially unsafe, or ineffective because it could, potentially, portray other, unrelated vaccines in a negative light is doing a disservice to the medical industry, scientific study, and humanity in general.

This crap needs to stop now. Blindly following anything, and anybody who does it should feel bad.

originally posted by: xDeadcowx

Nobody can honestly say that all vaccines are 100% safe and effective.

Who actually says this though?

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: xDeadcowx

Nobody can honestly say that all vaccines are 100% safe and effective.

Who actually says this though?

A mate of mine had two kids, both had the multi shot. A few days later one went down with some sort of reaction that damaged parts of her brain, she is now 21 years old and in a wheelchair and totally dependent. They know that so many in so many thousand are going to have a bad reaction. But its added up that overall the cost of having the diseases compared to the few bad reactions are the cost effective way to go. So its all a question of "Are you feeling lucky today? This one bad reaction is costing the health service big time. But any bad reactions are paid for by the taxpayer, in this country. So as far as big pharms. are concerned its very cost effective.

I Don’t Vaccinate My Child Because It’s My Right To Decide What Eliminated Diseases Come Roaring Back

As a mother, I put my parenting decisions above all else. Nobody knows my son better than me, and the choices I make about how to care for him are no one’s business but my own. So, when other people tell me how they think I should be raising my child, I simply can’t tolerate it. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I fully stand behind my choices as a mom, including my choice not to vaccinate my son, because it is my fundamental right as a parent to decide which eradicated diseases come roaring back.

The decision to cause a full-blown, multi-state pandemic of a virus that was effectively eliminated from the national population generations ago is my choice alone, and regardless of your personal convictions, that right should never be taken away from a child’s parent. Never.

Vaccine deniers stick together. And now they’re ruining things for everyone

The real problem is that these people tend to stick together. A new study this week finds strong evidence that people who rejected vaccines for their young children are clustered together in the same communities. And that only increases the risk that measles — a highly contagious respiratory disease that was believed to have been eradicated 15 years ago — will spread to more children.

Vaccine Safety : Examine the Evidence This is a .pdf via the American Academy of Pediatrics


I used to get the 'flu each season. Now, due to having access to workplace vaccination, I haven't had it since I have been having the vaccinations. I'm not becoming autistic, either!

I do think there's a line in hte sand between letting our immune system do some of the work and using immunizations for hte rest. When one puts the responsibility on the immune system too far, the natural defenses are overwhelmed, while in the reverse circumstance it might lead to severe dependency on pharmaceuticals.

Where do seasonal vaccinations sit on this tug-o-war?

I do know if there was a dangerous flu going around I'd probably want to be immunized. Who wouldn't And that's just a flu...

originally posted by: jonnywhite
I do think there's a line in hte sand between letting our immune system do some of the work and using immunizations for hte rest. When one puts the responsibility on the immune system too far, the natural defenses are overwhelmed, while in the reverse circumstance it might lead to severe dependency on pharmaceuticals.

Where do seasonal vaccinations sit on this tug-o-war?

I do know if there was a dangerous flu going around I'd probably want to be immunized. Who wouldn't And that's just a flu...

From what I have gathered doctors who have to treat flue victims, take 15 mg of zinc a day during the danger period, and don't seem to catch anything.

All medicine has side effects, ALL medicine. The potential benefits must always be weighed against the potential dangers.

If a treatment is effective for 98% of patients, and 2% have detrimental side affects then should we stop this treatment?

No treatments or medicines are 100% effective and to claim that vaccinations are dangerous or ineffective because of a small number of reported side effects is just the spreading or dangerous misinformation.

Get vaccinated for everyone's benefit, as well as your own.

a reply to: anonentity

The results of clinical studies on zinc have been mixed to poor:

Zinc -- Your body needs zinc for its immune system to function properly, so it has long been thought that zinc could help protect against catching a cold or flu. But the evidence has been decidedly mixed, with some studies finding a benefit from zinc lozenges and others showing no effect. Recently, a review of studies that compared zinc to placebo found that most of them had flaws that made any positive results unreliable. Only 4 studies were deemed reliable, and 3 found no benefit from zinc lozenges. The remaining positive study suggested that zinc nasal sprays might help reduce nasal stuffiness, but zinc nasal sprays have been reported to cause permanent loss of smell and are not recommended for use. If you do decide to try zinc lozenges for a cold, remember that getting too much zinc (more than 50 mg per day over a long period of time) can be dangerous. People taking cisplatin, penicillamine, and quinolone or tetracycline antibiotics should not take zinc.

Source: Influenza | University of Maryland Medical Center umm.edu...
University of Maryland Medical Center

I haven't had flu since I was six and I don't get flu shots.

I almost did get one when they were giving them out free at my first employer when I was 18. After a few of the employees who went before me came back and said they felt ill, I decided I'd just take my chances and not get one.

Now that I am so much older and wiser(let's hope), I've started to consider profit margins and liability(in other words, if this treatment is proved to be horse #...who would get sued if the cat is out of bag). To me, flu shot is too much of a risk based on those two considerations.

Either way, great thread. Thanks for sharing.