Gun owners - Have you apologised for a spree killing recently?

a reply to: kaylaluv

Nope.

Gun owners is the GD topic.

Funny that I don't know any gun owner that points themselves to the East, and prays 7 times of day to the 'Gun God'.

I think this thread needs to be placed in the jokes section.

a reply to: neformore

There have been some very well thought out replies as to it's failings, such as this one by ProjectVxn but ultimately, as well made as his point may be - and I respect his right to make it - the analogy still stands, because its not about the ins and outs of gun ownership, or a particular religion, its about the folly of casting aspersions on the majority in a particular subject and generalisations as a whole.

I think you're making a mistake here. Like I said, I get not wanting to paint with a broad brush. HOWEVER, one MUST understand the subject one is comparing to the other, even in an anecdotal fashion, to illustrate such a point.

Understanding Islamic society in the Middle East is paramount to understanding why religious extremism finds such a comfortable home in Islamic countries.

a reply to: kaylaluv

The fact is that people will always generalize. Sometimes it is some people, sometimes it is a majority of people. But it is part of human nature because we all have different experiences, lived and grew up in different cultures, different countries, etc, etc, etc.

This reminds me of a video a cousin of mine from Spain sent me about a Japanese-Colombian talking about similar generalizations. (actually i saw that video an hour ago, what a strange coincidence) In Colombia he was continuously asked if he ate rats because he is Japanese and there has been a misconception in Colombia that Japanese people eat rats. Then when his parents moved with him to Japan when he was 10 years old the Japanese children would point at him noticing how different he was. When he told them, in Japanese, that he was raised in Colombia the Japanese children asked him, oh, you are from the Amazon, so you eat snakes?

i would post the video, but he spoke in Spanish and Japanese only. No English subtitles so i can't post it here.

You might not see it, and probably if i asked you, you are also very probable to be in favor of gun control, which would be why you don't think the op was also making a wide generalization of a group of people who have a particular point of view.

I am not saying he did it out of malice, but a false generalization it is, and it does imply that subconsciously the op thinks that the majority of people who generalize against all Muslims are gun owners.

originally posted by: thesaneone
I think this thread needs to be placed in the jokes section.

Listen to this.

Do they honesty think that James Holmes, and Adam Lanza went on their shooting sprees to kill the infidels so they could get in to heaven to get 72 virgins shouting 'Guns are Great' ?

Apparently some do.

a reply to: neo96



Well this was a quick google search, it's only 4 though


But that isn't the point of the thread.
It is not saying that gun owners worship their weapons or that it is a religion.

It is simply saying don't blame the many for the actions of the few and using a group that preaches that almost non stop to show how we can lose sight of that so fast when the subject is different.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: kaylaluv

Nope.

Gun owners is the GD topic.

Funny that I don't know any gun owner that points themselves to the East, and prays 7 times of day to the 'Gun God'.

Okay, I give up. Have a nice day.

a reply to: projectvxn

I get that...

But it's not the point of this thread. The generalisation part is.

a reply to: neformore

And yet the same people who are saying don't 'generalize' muslims.

Are the VERY same people who GENERALIZE:

Republicans,rich people,corporations,bankers, and yep GUN OWNERS.

Oh what an epic double standard getting weaved.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: kaylaluv

The fact is that people will always generalize. it won't be everyone, sometimes it is a majority of people. But it is part of human nature because we all have difference experiences, lived and grew up in different cultures, etc, etc, etc.

Maybe, but when it comes to issues as large and critical as this, we should really try not to generalize. Maybe people shouldn't get so angry when others try to make them understand that. Admit that it happens, correct it, then move on.

a reply to: neo96

See... You're agreeing with me now 😊

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Lol nerf appears people didn't read the whole post lol.

Yeah and its the certain members I thought too

They saw the opening lines.

Went all red with anger and started there derp derp derp rant of outrage


show who on ATS actually has intelligence to read.

.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: projectvxn

I get that...

But it's not the point of this thread. The generalisation part is.

Rather than generalizations based on what one THINKS is going on vs. Analysis based on what IS going on. Which I believe is critical to understanding this topic.

We can't just sum this up as "people are generalizing a whole group of people" when it is, in fact, a whole group of people who have given rise to what WE THINK is extremism.

As I explained before the governing, vast majority of Muslims in the ME, regardless of whether they are Shi'ites or Sunni, are Islamic Conservatives.

It would be prudent to study what this means, how it drives what Westerners THINK is Muslim extremism, and what it ACTUALLY is in the Islamic Conservative world.

You cannot have this discussion and ignore those things simply because you're trying to be diplomatic with your western world view of a society that is deeply misunderstood by the West.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: neo96

See... You're agreeing with me now 😊

Not really.

The main difference is there are thousands of laws to keep those people in their 'place'.

Where as no laws exist that punish the entire population of muslim's.

In fact no such laws can ever exist with the first amendment protection.

originally posted by: projectvxn


Understanding Islamic society in the Middle East is paramount to understanding why religious extremism finds such a comfortable home in Islamic countries.

Isn't there a type of culture specific to America that might explain why there are more mass shootings in America, compared to countries in Europe?

www.usatoday.com...

Again, not trying to make this about gun owners, just seeing if there are more comparisons then you would want to admit.

a reply to: projectvxn

You cannot have this discussion and ignore those things simply because you're trying to be diplomatic with your western world view of a society that is deeply misunderstood by the West.

Last time I checked muslims don't have to go through a federal background to prove themselves as 'good' muslims.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: projectvxn


Understanding Islamic society in the Middle East is paramount to understanding why religious extremism finds such a comfortable home in Islamic countries.

Isn't there a type of culture specific to America that might explain why there are more mass shootings in America, compared to countries in Europe?

www.usatoday.com...

Again, not trying to make this about gun owners, just seeing if there are more comparisons then you would want to admit.

This isn't a parallel.

You're talking about the availability of a gun vs. a deeply ingrained religious ideology in a heavily religious society.

Ask yourself this, why aren't American Muslims as "radicalized" as ME Muslims? What is the difference?

You're not taking a critical look at this. You're looking for a moral and ideological equivalence that simply doesn't exist.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

Maybe, but when it comes to issues as large and critical as this, we should really try not to generalize. Maybe people shouldn't get so angry when others try to make them understand that. Admit that it happens, correct it, then move on.

So, how do you make a point that people shouldn't make generalizations by making a generalization?

a reply to: neo96

hehehehehhehehehe


Who I expected to fall for the trap.




This thread is sweeeeeeeeet