Flight MH17 - Searching for the Truth

a reply to: justwanttofly

The have laser targeting or else they can`t even target other fighters, which they can.

And why is there damage to top side of MH17 while BUK M1 missile explodes from down side up ?

See animations pictures and animation at 23:29 :

Link

BUK missile exploding ways (Fig.1 Target Engagement Envelope) :

Link

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So the Dailymail is making it up now?

So you don`t have a link with him saying that ?

Media have been making up way more stuff, so unless you have some proof otherwise, it`s safe to say it could have been made up.

The Daily Mail (aka, Hate Mail, Daily Fail, Daily Heil, Daily Moan and so on), is a reactionary tabloid rag masquerading as a "traditional values," middle-class newspaper that is, in many ways, the worst of the British gutter press (only Rupert Murdoch's Sun is worse). Its weighty Sunday counterpart is the Mail on Sunday.

The Daily Mail is to the U.K. what the New York Post is to the United States, and what the Drudge Report is to the Internet: to wit, gossipy tabloid "journalism" for those who cannot digest serious news, with a flippantly wingnut editorial stance. The Daily Mail is notable among British tabloids for rejecting the standard red-top banner in order to try to appear more upmarket and respectable, although it does sometimes go in for the full front-page picture or headline characteristic of the working class rags. It is also notorious for its frequent harassment of individuals, campaigns of hate directed at various minorities, and willfully deceiving and lying to its readers.

Daily Mail

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

They have laser designators for employing air to ground munitions. Nice try.

I don't understand Ukrainian or Russian or whatever language that was, but from the pictures and animations I can guess that they are saying how an SA-11 couldn't have shot the airplane down because there is damage on the top of the airplane? Is it not conceivable that there was more than one missile fired? SAM operators usually fire more than one, as it results in a higher kill probability. The first missile impacts and while the airplane is coming apart and tumbling through the air, the second missile impacts and the top of the fuselage takes damage. Not unrealistic at all. In fact, probable.

a reply to: justwanttofly

It`s Dutch.

They show there`s damage on top of the wings and cockpit from inside out which contradicts with how a BUK would explode.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Media have been making up way more stuff, so unless you have some proof otherwise, it`s safe to say it could have been made up.

So not unlike what Russian media has done on a constant basis regarding what happens in Ukraine.

Now other than a rational wiki page do you have beyond a shadow of a doubt proof it was made up?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

From inside out? It looks like they are pointing to damage coming into the fuselage from the top.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So a MORE powerful missile couldn't have caused shrapnel to go all the way through, or an oxygen bottle to explode, etc. But that's consistent with a much smaller AAM.

Got it.

So Finland’s customs service has intercepted Air-to-Air missile parts to the Ukraine a few weeks before MH17 tragedy and the Separatists didn`t have any planes...

Finland Detains Vietnamese Missile Parts

HELSINKI—Finland has detained a shipment of Vietnamese-owned air-to-air missile parts bound for Ukraine after raising concerns the consignment of military hardware violated arms-export regulations.

The shipment was impounded on June 24, well before Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -1.85% Flight 17 was downed over Ukraine, leading to the deaths of all 298 people on board—and raising concerns about the presence of missiles in the country.

Photographs released by Finnish authorities suggest the consignment included parts from R-73 short-range, heat-seeking air-to-air missiles, also known as the AA-11 Archer under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s naming convention. Other items were seemingly components from R-27 medium-range missiles, also called the AA-10 Alamo.

Source

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So a MORE powerful missile couldn't have caused shrapnel to go all the way through, or an oxygen bottle to explode, etc. But that's consistent with a much smaller AAM.

Got it.

It`s bend from the outside in at the top of the cockpit and wings, no way that happens with something coming from any other directions as to the top or it would have been bend from inside out.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I`m saying it relativity easy to modify an Su-25 so it can use and R-27 missile with just an IR module (the missile is modular and can be only IR) and Ukrainians are able to do those modifications without a doubt.

And yet you say this and I quote...

and have been outfitted on Su-25`s in the past

Now which is it ...

relatively easy to do...

Or

it was already done...

Looks as though you have contradicted yourself there.

Also care to provide any evidence that an SU 25 was modified to carry that missile since you did say it has happened in the past?

When, according to the Ukrainians, you get attacked by Russian Mig-29s who are able to fly at much greater heights you want to carry missiles which are capable to go much higher.

Yes you do need missiles that can go that high, but that in no way means that an SU 25 is outfitted for the R 27...which it isn't but please keep up that fantasy as it is fun to watch.

The standard R-60 missiles aren`t capable of much lifting because of the relative low rocket thrust burn time, however the R-27 has a much greater lifting capability.

Well then that pretty much put's the nail in the coffin as far as it being an SU 25 that brought the passenger airliner down...and the fact that an SU 25 doesn't carry the R 27 drives that nail down even deeper.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So now the Ukraine, which makes the missiles had to ship them from Vietnam?

Parts and pieces and even entire weapons systems get shipped to undergo refurbishment and upgrade. So what. They've found entire MiG airframes being shipped before. That doesn't prove anything.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So please tell me how the two missile scenario I presented is not plausible, if even highly probable.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And guess where a SAM is going to explode? An IR missile is not going to explode above the fuselage, even if fired from in front of the plane.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

That has nothing to do with any of this.

The Russians also supplied the rebels with weapons(including SA-11s), but I don't see you touting that fact.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Finland Detains Vietnamese Missile Parts

Nice cherry picking there, but you seem to leave out an important comment...

“Vietnamese authorities have confirmed to us today that the shipment was Vietnamese government property en route for maintenance work in Ukraine as a part of routine military cooperation,” Mr. Rak# said.

missilethreat.com...

That pretty much closes the conspiracy of why that shipment was going to Ukraine, but hey keep trying maybe you will get lucky sometime.

originally posted by: justwanttofly
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

From inside out? It looks like they are pointing to damage coming into the fuselage from the top.

Sorry my mistake, I meant outside in.

a reply to: justwanttofly

The Russians also supplied the rebels with weapons(including SA-11s), but I don't see you touting that fact.

And you never will.

originally posted by: justwanttofly
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

That has nothing to do with any of this.

The Russians also supplied the rebels with weapons(including SA-11s), but I don't see you touting that fact.

According to the article a BUK system is way to difficult to operate by "ordinary" Separatists, this was also confirmed by the Ukrainian BUK instructor to be seen in the vid at 17:23 min, so why would the Russians have supplied that to them?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Why wouldn't the Russians train the separatists on the equipment? There have been countless reports of that happening.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And as I pointed out before, it's complex to operate to a trained military level, but much simpler than almost every other SAM system out there.