Flight MH17 - Searching for the Truth

Flight MH17 - Searching for the Truth

It’s one of the greatest war crimes of modern times – and the truth still hasn’t been told. On July 17th 2014 at about 16:20 local time, Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine. All 298 passengers died, including many children. Who fired the missile? Over several months the Berlin-based investigative newsroom CORRECT!V has gathered facts, investigated in eastern Ukraine and Russia, and found witnesses to the missile launch. The investigation unveiled a clear chain of evidence. MH17 was downed by a ground-launched BUK missile – launched by a unit of the 53rd Russian Air Defense Brigade from Kursk. The brigade unit, tasked with protecting Russian tank units, was operating in mid July on Ukrainian territory without displaying national emblems.

An investigation that takes place on the ground in Eastern Ukraine along with interviews of witnesses and pro Russian / Russian officials. It takes the issues reported one at a time and examines the evidence put forth. It also looks at information released by Bellingcat regarding the BUK system in question and its location.

Its a long read with some specific and in depth information so I am not going to try and explain what it is saying piecemeal.

The "report" (what ever you want to call it) was released January 9th 2015. If the information is correct and accurate Russia is in trouble.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Flight MH17 - Searching for the Truth

It’s one of the greatest war crimes of modern times – and the truth still hasn’t been told. On July 17th 2014 at about 16:20 local time, Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine. All 298 passengers died, including many children. Who fired the missile? Over several months the Berlin-based investigative newsroom CORRECT!V has gathered facts, investigated in eastern Ukraine and Russia, and found witnesses to the missile launch. The investigation unveiled a clear chain of evidence. MH17 was downed by a ground-launched BUK missile – launched by a unit of the 53rd Russian Air Defense Brigade from Kursk. The brigade unit, tasked with protecting Russian tank units, was operating in mid July on Ukrainian territory without displaying national emblems.

An investigation that takes place on the ground in Eastern Ukraine along with interviews of witnesses and pro Russian / Russian officials. It takes the issues reported one at a time and examines the evidence put forth. It also looks at information released by Bellingcat regarding the BUK system in question and its location.

Its a long read with some specific and in depth information so I am not going to try and explain what it is saying piecemeal.

The "report" (what ever you want to call it) was released January 9th 2015. If the information is correct and accurate Russia is in trouble.

even if they did shoot it down what is going to happen to the Russians more sanctions? Lol.....

The sooner America admits they did it the better for everyone I think.

a reply to: Dabrazzo

The sooner America admits they did it the better for everyone I think.

Please provide any (and I mean any) evidence that backs your claim, as I guarantee you have none.

Explain how that happens when it was supposedly a Ukrainian SU 25 that RUssia and a few on here swear was the plane that did, so where is the US involved and what plane did they use, because the last time I checked we don't have SU 25's in our inventory.

Or is it you would rather just blame the US instead of looking closer at who your defending?

Some additional information...


I read it last night, mailed them and got 2 responses of the head of CORRECT!V, here are the mails :


My First Mail

Hi correctiv,

I have some questions about the article.

- Why do you fail to mention about the Antonov An-26 military jet and the two Suchoi Su-25 fighter jets being downed by R-27 missiles just prior to MH17 tragedy according to the Ukrainians and Poroshenko?

Russian Fighter Jet Fired a Missile at Ukrainian SU-25

Use Google Translate

- Why isn`t one of the military experts saying an R-27 missile has an fragmentation warhead of 39kg and has also the ability to bring down a 777, and is being made and sold by the Ukrainians?

- Why isn`t it mentioned that R-27 missiles are modular (they can only be outfitted with IR modules) and have been outfitted on Su-25`s in the past (the Ukrainians are able to make modification themselves on jet fighters to be outfitted with them)?

- Why isn`t there any mention in the article about how poor Belingcat its research actual is?

Belingcat

- Why do you also not mention that an Su-25 isn`t able to hide behind an airliner due to its service ceiling?

- Why do you make it look like a Mig-29 would attack tanks while it`s made to fight other jet fighters and not to attack tanks like the Su-25?

All in all the article looks more like a propaganda piece and a not very convincing one. If this is meant to influence peoples opinion it goes in the long list of not being very successful with so many mistakes and obvious biased writing.

First Response (quick reaction back)

Please read the story first. We mention the Antonov An-26 military jet and the two Suchoi Su-25 fighter and some more.

Best David

My Second Mail (quick reaction)

I have read the story before responding.

You mention the downing of the An-26 and two Su-25s, but make the suggestion they all got downed by a BUK-M1 and totally ignore what Poroshenko writes in his letter from 6 December and also fail to mention about the press release from the National Security Council about what brought down the two Su-25s.

And you also fail to mention that an R-27 missile could have brought down the MH17.

Second Response (two hours later)

Tja.

beste Grüße

David Schraven

--

Tel: +49 - 172 - 56 32 699

Jede und jeder kann Mitglied der CORRECT!V-Community werden:
community.correctiv.org...

Unterstützt gemeinnützigen Recherche-Journalismus in Deutschland

-----------------------------------------------------------------


So the answer I got was "Tja" (Ah Well!), and you can join us in our community and our research...?

Appreciate the link OP. It's nice to read a story that step by step wades through the propaganda.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

- Why isn`t it mentioned that R-27 missiles are modular (they can only be outfitted with IR modules) and have been outfitted on Su-25`s in the past (the Ukrainians are able to make modification themselves on jet fighters to be outfitted with them)?

And yet you again forget that the SU 25 is not a plane that uses the R 27 and isn't even part of the launch platform they use.

In fact here are the planes that use it...

The R-27 missile is intended for integration on Russian fourth generation fighters such as the MiG-29, MiG-31, Su-27, Su-30, Su-33, Su-34, Su-35, Su-37 and Yak-141.

www.airforce-technology.com...

Are you saying the SU 25 is a fourth generation fighter?

- Why isn`t one of the military experts saying an R-27 missile has an fragmentation warhead of 39kg and has also the ability to bring down a 777, and is being made and sold by the Ukrainians?

When it is fired from a plane that is designed to fire it maybe... because the so called killer of commercial airliners in Ukraine the SU 25 doesn't carry and never has used that missile.

Now if you want to get into countries that make and sell things like that...By your logic then Russia should be held responsible because they produced and sold the SU 25 that supposedly by your logic brought down MH 17. And just so you know Russia is where the R 27 originated so again they should be held responsible if we use your logic.

- Why isn`t there any mention in the article about how poor Belingcat its research actual is?

Could that be because this wasn't about Bellingcat and their fidings? As it says they have done their own investigation or do you know first hand they didn't?

Supports non-profit research journalism in Germany ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ So the answer I got was "Well" (Ah well!), and you can join us in our community and our research ...?

So exactly what was it you wanted to hear from them?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Some additional information...


I read it last night, mailed them and got 2 responses of the head of CORRECT!V, here are the mails :


My First Mail

Hi correctiv,

I have some questions about the article.

- Why do you fail to mention about the Antonov An-26 military jet and the two Suchoi Su-25 fighter jets being downed by R-27 missiles just prior to MH17 tragedy according to the Ukrainians and Poroshenko?

Russian Fighter Jet Fired a Missile at Ukrainian SU-25

Use Google Translate

- Why isn`t one of the military experts saying an R-27 missile has an fragmentation warhead of 39kg and has also the ability to bring down a 777, and is being made and sold by the Ukrainians?

- Why isn`t it mentioned that R-27 missiles are modular (they can only be outfitted with IR modules) and have been outfitted on Su-25`s in the past (the Ukrainians are able to make modification themselves on jet fighters to be outfitted with them)?

- Why isn`t there any mention in the article about how poor Belingcat its research actual is?

Belingcat

- Why do you also not mention that an Su-25 isn`t able to hide behind an airliner due to its service ceiling?

- Why do you make it look like a Mig-29 would attack tanks while it`s made to fight other jet fighters and not to attack tanks like the Su-25?

All in all the article looks more like a propaganda piece and a not very convincing one. If this is meant to influence peoples opinion it goes in the long list of not being very successful with so many mistakes and obvious biased writing.

First Response (quick reaction back)

Please read the story first. We mention the Antonov An-26 military jet and the two Suchoi Su-25 fighter and some more.

Best David

My Second Mail (quick reaction)

I have read the story before responding.

You mention the downing of the An-26 and two Su-25s, but make the suggestion they all got downed by a BUK-M1 and totally ignore what Poroshenko writes in his letter from 6 December and also fail to mention about the press release from the National Security Council about what brought down the two Su-25s.

And you also fail to mention that an R-27 missile could have brought down the MH17.

Second Response (two hours later)

Tja.

beste Grüße

David Schraven

--

Tel: +49 - 172 - 56 32 699

Jede und jeder kann Mitglied der CORRECT!V-Community werden:
community.correctiv.org...

Unterstützt gemeinnützigen Recherche-Journalismus in Deutschland

-----------------------------------------------------------------


So the answer I got was "Tja" (Ah Well!), and you can join us in our community and our research...?

Point 1. A SU-25(frogfoot) cannot hold that altitude armed. the manufacturer backs this up(they are russian too)

Point 2.The R-27 missile is a heat seeking missile. the damage to the plane is inconsistent with a strike from one of those. A shot from behind with one of those will hit around the engine area not center mass or the cockpit.

Point 3. the aircraft mh-17 was faster than the su-25 so i doubt it could had ran it down. Also radar telemetry can be faked.

Point4. There IS no truth but the aircraft is destroyed and people are dead. both sides are to blame because they are fighting each other. BOTH RUSSIA and UKRAINE should pay restitution to the families since no one will admit their error.

truth 1 = plane shot douwn
truth 2 = it never supposed to fly over an warzone !
final result :
298 death's for malaysian airway's profit...
who is responceble ???
the organisation that cleared the ukrain airspace save !

a reply to: ressiv

MH17 was in the same air corridor that other commercial flights were in. Air space was restricted under the 30000+/- flight level and mh17 was above it.

How is Malaysia air profiting?

an shorter route
btw only an few comp. used the route most of them flew round the warzone..
reply to: Xcathdra

a reply to: ressiv

an shorter route
btw only an few comp. used the route most of them flew round the warzone..

And some were even in the same airspace as MH 17 when it went down, so why did they still fly that route?

Is it because the only warnings for flying were below 30000 ft and the ones who planned that path knew this and didn't feel they were in danger...as most participants in war don't shoot commercial airliners down for a reason.

originally posted by: yuppa
Point4. There IS no truth but the aircraft is destroyed and people are dead. both sides are to blame because they are fighting each other. BOTH RUSSIA and UKRAINE should pay restitution to the families since no one will admit their error.

Sorry, I don't buy it. The guys that pulled the trigger on the gun are responsible. That's doesn't change because nobody admits to it.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien And you also fail to mention that an R-27 missile could have brought down the MH17.

Except for the fact that there is evidence proving that to be false.

In the link; It’s one of the greatest war crimes of modern times

First we don't know it was on purpose or an accident also it's not the first time, what about Iran Air Flight 655.

The greatest war crime, really.. It's sure is sad when civilizations get killed but still.

originally posted by: Plugin
First we don't know it was on purpose or an accident

If it was done on purpose there will be issues.
If it was accidental then why not state as much and go from there. What's the point in denying it? I would imagine the consequences would be infinitely less had someone come forward. By hiding / denying does nothing bt piss off the nations who lost nationals.

originally posted by: Plugin
also it's not the first time, what about Iran Air Flight 655.

The US shot it down and immediately reported / admitted it. The US also paid out restitution to those who died because of it.

originally posted by: Plugin
The greatest war crime, really.. It's sure is sad when civilizations get killed but still.

All wars are crimes.

a reply to: Xcathdra

In regards to Iran Air Flight, members of HSL-44 (U.S. Navy) were airborne in the vicinity and were tracking two separate contacts that day, and one of them was using an electronic system, that to date, has only been used by two countries, The United States and Iran...on the F-14A Tomcat. The Vincennes launched its missiles, and the one contact dove for the deck, leaving the airliner as the sole target. When they tried to report it, they were told it did not matter what they saw.

a reply to: cardinalfan0596

It's a common fighter pilot tactic to slip under passenger airliners very close to get inside defense perimeters....as you probably already know but others might not.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Some additional information...


I read it last night, mailed them and got 2 responses of the head of CORRECT!V, here are the mails :


My First Mail

Hi correctiv,

I have some questions about the article.

- Why do you fail to mention about the Antonov An-26 military jet and the two Suchoi Su-25 fighter jets being downed by R-27 missiles just prior to MH17 tragedy according to the Ukrainians and Poroshenko?

Russian Fighter Jet Fired a Missile at Ukrainian SU-25

Use Google Translate

- Why isn`t one of the military experts saying an R-27 missile has an fragmentation warhead of 39kg and has also the ability to bring down a 777, and is being made and sold by the Ukrainians?

- Why isn`t it mentioned that R-27 missiles are modular (they can only be outfitted with IR modules) and have been outfitted on Su-25`s in the past (the Ukrainians are able to make modification themselves on jet fighters to be outfitted with them)?

- Why isn`t there any mention in the article about how poor Belingcat its research actual is?

Belingcat

- Why do you also not mention that an Su-25 isn`t able to hide behind an airliner due to its service ceiling?

- Why do you make it look like a Mig-29 would attack tanks while it`s made to fight other jet fighters and not to attack tanks like the Su-25?

All in all the article looks more like a propaganda piece and a not very convincing one. If this is meant to influence peoples opinion it goes in the long list of not being very successful with so many mistakes and obvious biased writing.

First Response (quick reaction back)

Please read the story first. We mention the Antonov An-26 military jet and the two Suchoi Su-25 fighter and some more.

Best David

My Second Mail (quick reaction)

I have read the story before responding.

You mention the downing of the An-26 and two Su-25s, but make the suggestion they all got downed by a BUK-M1 and totally ignore what Poroshenko writes in his letter from 6 December and also fail to mention about the press release from the National Security Council about what brought down the two Su-25s.

And you also fail to mention that an R-27 missile could have brought down the MH17.

Second Response (two hours later)

Tja.

beste Grüße

David Schraven

--

Tel: +49 - 172 - 56 32 699

Jede und jeder kann Mitglied der CORRECT!V-Community werden:
community.correctiv.org...

Unterstützt gemeinnützigen Recherche-Journalismus in Deutschland

-----------------------------------------------------------------


So the answer I got was "Tja" (Ah Well!), and you can join us in our community and our research...?

Point 1. A SU-25(frogfoot) cannot hold that altitude armed. the manufacturer backs this up(they are russian too)

Point 2.The R-27 missile is a heat seeking missile. the damage to the plane is inconsistent with a strike from one of those. A shot from behind with one of those will hit around the engine area not center mass or the cockpit.

Point 3. the aircraft mh-17 was faster than the su-25 so i doubt it could had ran it down. Also radar telemetry can be faked.

Point4. There IS no truth but the aircraft is destroyed and people are dead. both sides are to blame because they are fighting each other. BOTH RUSSIA and UKRAINE should pay restitution to the families since no one will admit their error.

1) R-27 missile can climb up to 10km, with a jet fighter at 5/7km it could have easily brought it down

2) If it`s an mistake it could have been fired from ahead/side

3) The missile goes faster as an MH17

4) A Dutch diplomat got informed together with other diplomats in the days before the disaster and had reported it to the government, but they haven`t informed the airliners and are responsible too

originally posted by: justwanttofly

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien And you also fail to mention that an R-27 missile could have brought down the MH17.

Except for the fact that there is evidence proving that to be false.

Bring it on ?