"Muslims aren't doing enough to speak out...!"

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Go back to cave man times when there was no social structure at all. I'll bet you still had some cavemen trying to control other cavemen. Hopefully, YOU will get it someday.

We are/were very pack minded, that is why we constantly join groups and have associations. If we walked up to a tribe of cavemen they would most likely eat us...hehe

There is a reason we are 7 billion and close to the weakest animal on the planet per pound and it is not because we a fun, loving, artistic etc...

a reply to: Xtrozero

So what is that you are suggesting we do? Abolish Islam altogether? What about those devout Muslims who are peaceful, and haven't hurt anyone? Don't you think they will feel this is unfair? Don't you think this might push them into the violent zone? Don't you think this will make them start to agree with the radicals - that the West wants to destroy their way of life and everything that is important to them?

What I think we should do is reach out to the peaceful Muslims and let them know we support their right to their religion - that we don't want to take it away from them. We just want to get along - to co-exist peacefully. Show them that we are not the evil non-believers that the radicals try to convince them we are. We have publicly bashed the Muslim religion time and again, and yet, there are still peaceful Muslims who haven't tried to kill us. There are many, many Muslims who have not spoken out publicly against us, even as we publicly speak out against them.

People keep saying that it is the peaceful Muslims' responsibility to publicly speak out against the terrorists. I think it is the non-Muslims' responsibility to publicly speak out in support of those Muslims who live in peace. The more we do that, the more they will join us in support. The more we bash them, the more they will separate themselves from us. More division is bad. Joining together is good.

Why do we have to keep up the circle-jerk of killing them for revenge, so that they kill us for revenge, so that we kill them for revenge, etc., etc.? That will never end, so that's not the answer.

I'm a Martin Luther King Jr fan, so I tend to go the non-violent route. What's your solution?

originally posted by: neformore

Secondly, because even the most stacked intelligence estimates of the numbers of Al Quaeda, ISiS and Taliban come to less than 200,000 people, which is 0.0125 percent of 1.6 billion.

The rest is your personal - and apparently skewed - opinion.

Well thank God it is only .0125 percent.... geez

You missed my point, it is a numbers game even with your numbers and the level of extremism. You also missed about 50 other groups including the Boko Haram, and we can pull stuff out all day like below, but lets use you 200,000

A new book by John Esposito and Dalia Mogahed, both of them professional pro-Islam propagandists, published by the Gallup organization, where Mogehed is executive director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies. Satloff shows how, through fraudulent definition of the word “radical,” the authors make it appear that a multi-year study of Muslim opinion worldwide showed that only seven percent of Muslims are radical, when, in reality, by any fair reading of the authors’ own polling data, the correct number is 37 percent.
The authors define Muslim radicals as those who say the 9/11 attack was “completely justified,” which was seven percent of the sample. However, there were two other categories of respondents who said that the attack was at least partially justified, and they are labeled by the authors as “moderates.” The first of those groups comprises 6.5 percent of the sample, the second comprises 23.1 percent. Further, the respondents in that last category, making up 23.1 percent, also said that they hate America, want to impose Sharia law, support suicide bombing, and oppose equal rights for women. Yet Esposito and Mogahed call them “moderates.”

We had only two people (2) totally disrupt France because of the level of extremism they were willing to go to. They would kill any number of people until they were also killed solely in the name of their religion. Now think of 200,000 that are willing to go anywhere in the world killing anyone, any number, until they are killed themselves, and because I see this as a big issues my views are skewed....lol

The other side to all this is they can continually fill the ranks. Extremism in that part of the world is easy to grow with or without America involved and that is due to being a very intolerant society both internally and externally.

a reply to: Xtrozero

it only takes one man with one bomb to wipe out a whole city and crumble civilization as we know it. we have to accept that ideas can be dangerous and that some ideas have to be opposed no matter of who's feeling get hurt. its time to get responsible, the stakes have never been higher than they have in the last century.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

So what is that you are suggesting we do? Abolish Islam altogether? What about those devout Muslims who are peaceful, and haven't hurt anyone? Don't you think they will feel this is unfair? Don't you think this might push them into the violent zone? Don't you think this will make them start to agree with the radicals - that the West wants to destroy their way of life and everything that is important to them?

What we should do is removed ourselves from that part of the world and let it implode into whatever it becomes and whatever extremism seeps over on us we kill it quickly.

What I think we should do is reach out to the peaceful Muslims and let them know we support their right to their religion - that we don't want to take it away from them. We just want to get along - to co-exist peacefully. Show them that we are not the evil non-believers that the radicals try to convince them we are. We have publicly bashed the Muslim religion time and again, and yet, there are still peaceful Muslims who haven't tried to kill us. There are many, many Muslims who have not spoken out publicly against us, even as we publicly speak out against them.

Who should the Muslims be pissed off the most about. Reactionary remarks or the actual people making their Religion look bad through extremest evil acts? I think logic is skewed here in we keep blaming people's reactions in creating extremest actions when there would not be negative public reactions if the initial extremest Muslim action never happened in the first place.

People keep saying that it is the peaceful Muslims' responsibility to publicly speak out against the terrorists. I think it is the non-Muslims' responsibility to publicly speak out in support of those Muslims who live in peace. The more we do that, the more they will join us in support. The more we bash them, the more they will separate themselves from us. More division is bad. Joining together is good.

I really do not think we are labeling all Muslims (hell a super mod here is giving me crap for even suggesting 2%, lol ) and when Muslims are willing, we are more than willing to reciprocate good will, Americans are funny like that. I'm working with 20 Pakistani military right now and we all get along. I even had a couple of guys willing to work on Christmas day so that the Pakistanis could get Friday off to go to the Mosque. It's all good when people are not intolerant of each other.

a reply to: jimmyx

It's devoid of the logic and compassion I'm used to seeing from you. I respect and agree with your opinions too, normally. I've never seen you condemn all for the few.

Moderates cannot control what extremists do. The only conforming they need to do is to understand the West is secular, well supposed to be anyway. This is why so many Muslims in the past immigrated to the West. Today we are dealing with radicalized refugees because of the wars and the increased Islamic on Islamic terrorism they have fostered.

originally posted by: neo96
I might have believe this nonsense.

Until a person reads this.

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

It's ok to lie to the 'non believers'.

Uh-uh. You've been here too long and have been involved in way too many threads about Islam to not know that is pure propaganda. Partial verses taken out of context and out of sequence. And I've been around too long to let you get away with it unchallenged. Why are you knowingly perpetuating lies?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: nonspecific
Would you not agree that intolerance is a two player game?
You seem to be somewhat intlerant of inolerance?
Maybe I missed something.

Not sure your question, but yes and no. It can be two way, but there isn't a formula that suggests two groups are needed for intolerance. Intolerance is also not just associated towards outside groups, it can be, and commonly is, internal too. The Muslin religion is very intolerant within and outside. We can debate that but intolerance leads to extremism and there really isn't another religion out there today that is showing the level of extremism as what the muslin religion is demonstrating today.

From my point of view you do have Zionism ideology "a corrupted form of Judaism" having exactly the same dual-listic thinking as the extremism that comes from Islam. And to be fair the Paul version of Christian faith can fall into the same trap if people are not careful. How many people in the west are not war mongering for more wars in the middle east while not questioning the news as propaganda and the politicians pushing war for economic agenda calling it bringing democracy?

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

From my point of view you do have Zionism ideology "a corrupted form of Judaism" having exactly the same dual-listic thinking as the extremism that comes from Islam. And to be fair the Paul version of Christian faith can fall into the same trap if people are not careful. How many people in the west are not war mongering for more wars in the middle east while not questioning the news as propaganda and the politicians pushing war for economic agenda calling it bringing democracy?

As I said before I'm not suggesting the rest of the world doesn't have these issues, but as I said it is all about the numbers and more importantly the level of extremism.

Its like if you compared a person who takes a pen from work to a bank robber saying well they both are stealing, and you would be correct, but one is a hell of a lot more extreme with much more consequences than the other. This is what we are seeing with Muslim extremism, it kind of makes all the other extremism pale in comparison.

a reply to: stosh64

Does that 8993 count the 2996 from 9/11...

Cos that hasn't been proved as of yet, so you can drop that number down...


Then add all the IRA killings and Anders Breivik...


Not condoning the numbers killed by Muslims in the slightest, but you did cherry picked Christian killings as only the abortion doctors, I wonder how many Muslims have killed abortion doctors?

If you're gonna do math percentages with this, at least give a fair assessment.

Another one: www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I can't understand why Muslims even should speak out. Did Pope or any other important religious person condemn Breiviks killing spree? Did any of them condemn Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda? What about Christian extremists in the USA?. There's a lot more...

But important piece of information is that the problem is not religion. It's region. How many Islamic terrorists weren't connected to the Middle East? My guess is that nearly 99% were connected to the Middle East. But Middle Eastern Muslims represent only around 20% of Muslims around the world.

My guess is that the main problem is education and that those people would have the same problems even if they were Christian.

Egyptian President El-Sisi seeks “Enlightenment” reform in the Islamic world
Read more at www.commdiginews.com...

For those arguing there isn't a problem

As a Muslim, Sisi will not say that Islam, the “religion,” is responsible for “antagonizing the entire world,” but he certainly goes much further than his Western counterparts when he says that this “thinking” is rooted in an Islamic “corpus of texts and ideas” which have become so “sacralized.”

Recall that here in the West, Islamic terrorists are seen as mere “criminals” and their terrorism as “crimes” without mention of any Islamic text or ideology driving them.

The Egyptian president further invoked the classical Islamic teaching—the “thinking”—that divides the world into two warring halves: the Muslim world (or in Islamic/Arabic parlance, Dar al-Islam) which must forever be in a struggle with the rest of the world (or Dar al-Harb, the “abode of war”) till, in the Koran’s words, “all religion belongs to Allah” (Koran 8:39).

spectator.org...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

If you happen to calm down and notice I was replying to Jimmyx and his comment about abortion doctor killings.

That's why it was worded the way it was. And I am not getting into a 9/11 debate with you.

the places from which the calls for change are evolving: Egypt and Tunisia.

Read more at www.commdiginews.com...


the source of the problem as Islamist ideology.

Both the newly elected President of Tunisia Beji Caid Essebsi and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi have recently made their voices heard loudly and clearly for the need to update Islamic doctrine to comply with a contemporary world. Of key importance is that both men specifically define the source of the problem as Islamist ideology.

We must also confront the fact that poverty is producing terrorism, a new phenomenon for Tunisia. The scourge of terrorism should have been addressed more decisively by Ennahda. Instead, the Islamist government allowed in radical foreign preachers who lured thousands of vulnerable young people to join al-Qaeda and the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq. The same extremist ideology motivates others to take up arms — made readily available by the turmoil in nearby Libya — against their fellow Tunisians. To fight extremism, we will need to pursue a two-pronged strategy: both “hard,” through stricter control of our borders and a more robust and technologically advanced security response, and “soft,” based on better intelligence-gathering, working to return our mosques to their spiritual function and barring entry to foreign preacher - See more at: downwithtyranny.blogspot.com...

Béji Caïd Essebsi
president of Tunisia

a reply to: stosh64

I'm calm, I just wondered why, even if replying to Jimmy's question, you would only compare abortion doctors to all islamic extremist deaths?


Why not compare christian abortion doctor killings & attempts to the Muslim equivalent?

Just didn't seem a fair comparison imo.

a reply to: Xtrozero

You make a good point, that's a lot of radicals who percentage wise are a tiny minority, but that tiny minority is a pretty big number, even if only .05% of Muslims endorse and support radical terroristic tactics that's still 8 million people in the world, that's an army size force and they are everywhere.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Charlie i see what you are trying to do here . The problem is that those /us in the western world feel threatened . More so now given the last couple of days . What we need are pictures like you posted but millions of them . We need mosques turning in would be terrorists . We need lots of things . That being said , who gets more airplay , the terrorist or those Muslims that speak out about it . You dont have to convince ATS , you have to beat the MSM .

Speak for yourself, I do not feel fear from what the MSM spouts, it is the MSM that should be feared, and who owns them.

Everyday that goes by, I find it easier to not fear them and prepare myself for something that actually might be interesting.

The reporters themselves must find it incredibly boring by now to be wax talking heads that accomplish nothing but make the world more stupid.

Where I live they do not even have reporters anymore, no one needs them they are just reading the news like the hosts.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirsIf they are peaceful that only means they aren't very good muzlims...You want to post some pictures of the muzlims in France right now??? They are tearing up the cities in support of the muzlim terrorists who just got killed by the police...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Noble. But no protests have ever won a war. And this is a war.

We currently have a president releasing GITMO prisoners without a declaration of peace.
We have on-going attacks that have not faltered or stopped.
We have many in the west defending or redefining terrorist attacks.

We aren't fighting this war to win. And if we aren't fighting to win, we lose.

The only thing the west has yet to do is declare a full surrender.

And that is only a matter of time.