"Muslims aren't doing enough to speak out...!"

originally posted by: one1002
a reply to: neo96

With regards to your reply, Islam forbids lying. The one you are referring to, Taqiyya meaning is to defend oneself from harm. The link below shall explain it to you, kindly look at section 2 (Taqiya (or Taqiyah, Taqiyya, Taqiyyah, Tuqya) and the permission to lie under special circumstances)

www.answering-christianity.com...

Correction, Taqqiya is a Shia doctrine whereby they are able to lie to others about their shia belief since takfiri extremists groups in the Middle East believe that Shiites are not Muslims and therefore believe that they are to be killed wherever they are found.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Would you not agree that intolerance is a two player game?
You seem to be somewhat intlerant of inolerance?
Maybe I missed something.

Not sure your question, but yes and no. It can be two way, but there isn't a formula that suggests two groups are needed for intolerance. Intolerance is also not just associated towards outside groups, it can be, and commonly is, internal too. The Muslin religion is very intolerant within and outside. We can debate that but intolerance leads to extremism and there really isn't another religion out there today that is showing the level of extremism as what the muslin religion is demonstrating today.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
The Shia community may have some form of excommunication through the Ayatollah, but I haven't really looked into it.

That is usually reserved only for women using stones...

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: kaylaluv

so believers have to disobey the teachings of their holy books to act civilized. its just proving my point.

No. You have to take it within historical context. There is a lot of conflicting stuff in the Bible. Jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." So, is stoning okay, or should we not stone (because none of us is without sin)? Well, Jesus came after the angry God of the first testament, so I would choose to follow what He said.

I'm fairly certain the quotes in Neo's website are taken out of context. Anyone can pull a quote from either the Quran or the Bible to bash the religion.

My point on religion is, people have and will cause harm to other people, regardless of whether religion is around or not, so religion in and of itself is not really the issue.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

So what, the Bible teaches it's not only okay, but required to stone women and children. That is the truth.

When was the last woman stoned in Christianity, when was the last woman stoned in Islam? We need to focus on 2015 and what is the extremism driving that. Islam has taken a trip back to the 13th century.

So much talk and not addressing the real issue.We and our politicians we all must admit and openly discuss this problem and find the solutions.It's simple ,Multiculturalism and integrating with Islam is not possible.It's either them or us.Values and practicising Islam is fundamentally opposed to western values.Stop these false liberal soft conversations.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Have you looked at Hefficide's thread? He's got some interesting theories - higher forces at play here, etc.

(I haven't learned how to post a link to another thread, sorry)

originally posted by: kaylaluv
My point on religion is, people have and will cause harm to other people, regardless of whether religion is around or not, so religion in and of itself is not really the issue.

But it is an issue today when it is the motivator used to create all the extremism we see. I agree Nationalism can be for more deadlier as we saw with WWII, Stalin, China, Cambodia... etc but the motivator today is Muslim extremism, unless you are seeing Quakers running around with suicide vests too.

a reply to: kaylaluv

you keep missing the point that holy books are used to justify the worst in religion. it is so crucial to recognize this fact. religion is useless with what we know now, and if you can't understand that, it's on you but those of us who know better have an obligation to at least inform the ignorant.

all you showed with your last post are the contradictions of a useless and dangerous book.

a reply to: TheMainEvent

Did you really just try to take the moral high ground there???


I can't speak for others, but if I had it choose between killing you for a lack of faith or raping a child...

You'd be dead!


Why couldn't you just condemn both...

Now I've stooped to your level just to prove a point, that a non believer or different believer will never hold up to the innocence of a child.

a reply to: Xtrozero

But we also need to look big picture here. If you take away religion as a motivator, then you'll have nationalism as the motivator. If you take away nationalism as the motivator, then you'll have religion as the motivator. If you take away religion and nationalism, you'll have something else as the motivator. See what I'm getting at?

We should absolutely address the problem, I'm not saying we shouldn't. But we're being short-sighted if we think that the religion is the only problem here.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Except your numbers game is BS, isn't it?

Firstly, because you have no way of measuring it other than small samples which actually may not represent the majority depending on the questions asked of them and how the person conducting the survey couches the question and inteprets the answers.

Secondly, because even the most stacked intelligence estimates of the numbers of Al Quaeda, ISiS and Taliban come to less than 200,000 people, which is 0.0125 percent of 1.6 billion.

The rest is your personal - and apparently skewed - opinion.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Xtrozero

But we also need to look big picture here. If you take away religion as a motivator, then you'll have nationalism as the motivator. If you take away nationalism as the motivator, then you'll have religion as the motivator. If you take away religion and nationalism, you'll have something else as the motivator. See what I'm getting at?

We should absolutely address the problem, I'm not saying we shouldn't. But we're being short-sighted if we think that the religion is the only problem here.

why not condemn nationalism and religion. you keep clinging on to what you don't need for no good reason. thats the grasp that religion has on people, it infects you so deep, it makes you need it

a reply to: vjr1113

Because sometimes people have used religion and nationalism to do good things. Let's condemn evil people, not just the tools they use. Tools can be used for good or they can be used for evil.

By the way, I'm not even religious (have no religious affiliation). I'm just trying to use some critical thinking skills to see the bigger picture.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Xtrozero

Have you looked at Hefficide's thread? He's got some interesting theories - higher forces at play here, etc.

(I haven't learned how to post a link to another thread, sorry)

originally posted by: HefficideSo I ask you again. If we are at war with extreme Islam, then why do Mecca and Medina still stand? Why do we still ally ourselves and sell arms to Saudi Arabia? The answer is quite clear to me. We are not at war with radical Islam at all. Nor is it at war with us. We're just seeing the pawns moving in a much bigger game and ignoring the real power pieces on the chessboard.

I disagree, it really doesn't matter what is at the top. I would suggest the true motivator is human greed in the end. We can debate that the 500 years of Christian Crusades were really a political and land grab event, but the 5 million that died it was a religious event. The two brothers killed in the name of religion plain and simple, so for them and their victims it was the Muslim religion that did it.

One thing that Hefficide does not take into account the is level of faith Muslims have. The vast majority of Christians pale in comparison to the level that Islam is practiced, lived and drives the masses. Saudi might be greedy bastards just like the rest, but their faith is at a level that they will kill solely in the name of their religion too.

a reply to: kaylaluv

why have good and bad when you can only have good? you keep clinging on to the useless. i don't see how stoning women for adultery and killing apostates and infidels can be used for good. im just repeating myself now. if you don't get it now you probably never will, but hopefully you will someday. unfortunately the only way to get rid of bad ideas is to outlive them, it seems. its sad that words aren't enough.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: kaylaluv

why have good and bad when you can only have good? you keep clinging on to the useless. i don't see how stoning women for adultery and killing apostates and infidels can be used for good. im just repeating myself now. if you don't get it now you probably never will, but hopefully you will someday. unfortunately the only way to get rid of bad ideas is to outlive them, it seems. its sad that words aren't enough.

My dear, you will never, ever, ever, EVER have only good. That simply isn't possible with human nature. That's my whole point. Religion, no religion, nationalism, no nationalism, atheism, communism, and any other "ism" - none of it really matters when it comes to human nature. Go back to cave man times when there was no social structure at all. I'll bet you still had some cavemen trying to control other cavemen. Hopefully, YOU will get it someday.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
If you take away religion and nationalism, you'll have something else as the motivator. See what I'm getting at?

We should absolutely address the problem, I'm not saying we shouldn't. But we're being short-sighted if we think that the religion is the only problem here.

It is today...and that is my point too. I agree with you BTW, but the motivator today is Islam, and I happen to live today so it affects me.

Humans will be human. All religions are corrupted by us at some point for personal gains/greed. Look at the Dark ages, that form of Christianity was so corrupt and deformed that it was worst than Satanism. We are seeing the same thing today with ISIS, Boko Haram, Bodu Bala Sena and 20 more Islmic groups so this is the motivator of today... in 75 years it might be Nationalism again, but neither of us most likely need to worry about that.

a reply to: kaylaluv

well thats the difference between you and me. i have hope in humanity, i believe in progress and learning. you seem to want to stay in bronze age middle east. thats why i said it seems bad ideas have to be out lived.

i seem to live just fine without violence. dont need it.

Could you source those pictures you posted, they're not on the initial links. At least I might be being a dummy here, can't seem to find them.

The reason is, there have been protests. Iran for example. The video the Roses of Iran, and the world has just turned a blind eye to the college and university protests. Women who don't want burqa's and want their judicial positions and equality back.

But, when I did a google for Muslim's against Isis, there are quite a few pictures, but when you do different searches, Muslim's against Sharia for example, and Muslim's against radical Islam, you still get alot of Sharia for the world, Behead those who disagree, and Democracy can go to hell, type protesters.

I'd like to see the real good positive protest pictures. Especially the ones you've shown, young women without veils and scarves, and showing pictures of burqa's and suppression, strongly standing up for their equality because to me this is what it's all about.The video Roses of Iran and the information on the woman judge from Iran and the University protests, even the Egyptian second revolution where they took back their country from the Brotherhood and extremists that Obama and the Elite seemed to be forcing down their throats. These are older pictures now.

I'd like to see current ones.