If the universe is infinite...

I'm going to explain this without going into much details and without proper terminology just in lay man terms

Look into infinite set of natural numbers 1,2,3,4,5, ... ,,, sign of infinity
and to another set 2,4,6,,8 ,,,, even numbers

It is "obvious" that set of natural numbers is bigger than set of even numbers ( you can take odd numbers and many other examples too). Both sets are infinite but one is bigger.

In case of Universe you are talking about number of Stars, Galaxies, may be Atoms, which are presumably infinite.

When you talking about "other yourself" we are talking about set of Events stretched in time in this Universe

I believe that set of Events is much bigger than set of Stars. They shouldn't be overlapping and to have any correlation.

Thus you can have Infinite Universe , Infinite number of Events and just one unique "yourself"

What is important here to understand is that although infinity of matter or matter-time is infinite there is infinitely larger infinity of possible interactions.

originally posted by: flice

originally posted by: boymonkey74
I have always wondered about the universe being infinite and my question is....
If it is does this mean the events of star wars are happening right now in a galaxy far far away?

has every book that has been written in fiction happened somewhere in the universe?.
Also does this mean there are infinite versions of me chatting on infinite computers on infinite ATS sites in the universe?.
Makes my head spin so science dudes your thoughts?.

Hawking would say yes....

I think most people still dont fathom how tiny Earth is in the big picture... even how tiny the Milky Way is in the big picture.

Imagine.... starsystems with habitable earth like planets we can see with the Keppler, are still just in our local neighbourhood seem from the big picture.
The disc shape that makes up the Milky Way are there times and times again in other parts of the entire galaxy.

The distances are too vast to comprehend in the human mind!

Dudes, there could be a space whale with enormous hooters that is about to swallow the part of the universe we are in and it is SO big that we cannot see it even with Hubble. Because to that monster Our whole visible universe is like a rice grain to a Godzilla.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Makes my head spin so science dudes your thoughts?.

There are all kinds of infinities. Every line has an infinite number of points in it. And if you divide it in two, there are an infinite number of points in each half. If you draw a circle, there are an infinite number of points within the circle, and external to it, even though it would seem that there are fewer points inside the circle than outside it.

And within any universe of an infinite number of things happening, or that could happen, there are also an infinite number of things that are unique and singular.

a reply to: boymonkey74

This video is wrong from the first statement

Sound is NOT electromagnetic.

Definition of sound

a : a particular auditory impression : tone
b : the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing
c : mechanic radiant energy that is transmitted by longitudinal pressure waves in a material medium (as air) and is the objective cause of hearing

Interesting thread, lots to hurt your brain on. An infinite universe (in physical size) may not necessarily mean that there are infinite possibilities all playing out simultaneously. Infinite possibilities are just that, possibilities it may be possible for a scenario to exist but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is. there is a possibility that I won't have a beer tonight but then again I may, both scenarios occourring as applied to me in this place in this timeframe are impossible, but both are a possibility.

The infinity of the universe physically has always intrigued me. I remember wondering about it from playing the old (showing my age here) arcade game 'Asteroids' where a scenario ie. large rocks drifting through space was playing out in a certain place (the screen). By guiding your spaceship/little triangle off screen it would reappear into the space again from the other side. I used to try to visualise how that might work in reality, maybe that the area I could see was on the surface of a sphere where nothing happened out of the area that I could see, the ship never hit anything off screen just reappeared on the opposite side of the screen (often to collide with the first rock it encountered lol).

From this childhood musing I began to think of the universe as spherical and if you went far enough (without colliding with anything) you would eventually end up back at your start point.

You could try this experiment if you ever found yourself out of the reach of Earth's gravity and in charge of the Hubble telescope. Find a spot in deep space that nothing can be seen.

Then cast your most treasured possession at lightspeed at that elusive spot.
Then play the waiting game................
If (eventually.....be very patient) you get hit on the back of the head by a pair of Paisley Y-Fronts then my theory is correct.
Bit of a long shot but worth thinking about! Never hurts humanity to appreciate the huuuugeness of what we perceive as our universe, which may itself be sitting on a molecule of polyester on the Y-Fronts of a relatively very large conspiracy theorist wondering about the vastness of their universe.

Now where is my bottle opener!

a reply to: HumansEh

Loved it
My Y-fronts will solve it all .

a reply to: HumansEh

Loved it
My Y-fronts will solve it all .

a reply to: boymonkey74

Yeah! sorry for bringing them up again but they may hold the key to life, the universe and everything.
They have however, exerted some sort of grip on my thoughts all day! No No No - not like that!

Perhaps its the colours, or the swirlyness..... or some ancient mystical power they posses.
Perhaps they belong in a wooden crate in a warehouse alongside other .......... artifacts.!

Actually I just felt that with all the horror and sadness of events this week I needed to smile and feel some humour and I appreciate that you ran with it. Without a bit of lightheartedness evil wins.

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.
-Pours beer and raises glass to you - cheers

originally posted by: Cuervo
I always daydreamed about something similar. I think we might someday be able to achieve quantum entangled observation from split photons where the "partnered" bits are potentially billions of light years away. If so, then we would be able to observe ourselves as we were billions of years ago and have a flawless record of our history. I realize it's highly conceptual but that's why it's a daydream.

No no, it's a great concept that makes sense!

These days it's like "in" to say things like how time doesn't exist but it surely does since the universe supposedly started with the Big Bang and what happens in the end are only theories but that doesn't mean that we will really get to the end anyway.

Time exists but it is relative to many factors, probably some that we don't know yet but one is gravity/magnetism. If a civilization would manage to evade all factors that make our universe's time go by, they could effectively thrive forever...well almost.

If the universe ends with a Big Crush, time will past faster near the end.

I've seen theories in which as galaxies go farther and farther from the Big Bang they go faster and faster because of the lost of gravity. I think that they might go faster than before if we calculate the distance traveled in the Universe but not when we calculate the time it will really take for those galaxy clusters to move from the center of the Big Bang.

If we live in a virtual reality world like some claim, well then, a computer that doesn't count how much time has passed since the server started is quite weird unless it comes from a place where time doesn't exist and the programer(s) can't understand the concept of time just like we can't understand the concept of no time.

All this to say I agree with your day dreaming lol

originally posted by: HumansEh
From this childhood musing I began to think of the universe as spherical and if you went far enough (without colliding with anything) you would eventually end up back at your start point.

You could try this experiment if you ever found yourself out of the reach of Earth's gravity and in charge of the Hubble telescope. Find a spot in deep space that nothing can be seen.

The same thought crossed my mind

I also played Asteroids. It was my favorite game ever till Zelda came out!

a reply to: theMediator

I'm playing it right now!

Play 'Asteroids' on your browser.

Ah the memories, and the rare joy of the weight of a pocketful of 10p coins entering the arcade. Good times.

a reply to: kitzik

The problem here is the concept of infinite. This is an impossible idea for us to comprehend because our perception of everything is measured. Time, distance, weight, mass, speed, direction...
We can't begin to imagine infinity, if we could...well, let's just say we would need to be composed of a lot more matter than we are. In answer to the question, and using my wholly unsuitable 'understanding' of infinity, the answer is clearly yes. Not only does 'infinity' encompass all possible histories on a physical level, it also includes all possible histories of all particles at all times, every conceivable combination has to include...well every possible combination. Now to the point; these combinations MUST abide by the rules that dictate their existence, so if particles can't combine to create something, that thing must be excluded.

a reply to: Jonjonj

I think understanding the non existence of time is like...

Seeing everything ever written and that could ever be just by seeing 26 letters...
Hearing every musical melodies that could ever be just by thinking about 12 notes...

It's not that they can't concentrate on one particular melody or book, it's just that it's not the first thing they "see".

Kinda like, when we see a dog we say : It's a dog. Because we understand the concept of an animal being.
Someone that doesn't understand that concept might say : It's hair.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Since all atoms are being formed and then breaking apart so fast they cant measure the frequency because the sub atomic particles are flying in faster than light to accomplish this ,I suggest we are in a huge quantum computer that GENERATES matter from memory systems. So yes it is infinite,and all laws of physics and time it self is just an illusion for the observer to PERCEIVE as real even though nothing is real and matter is not solid but blinking on and off similar to a video screen but multi dimensional.Just as the possibilities of events in a video game are infinite so goes our perceived universe.

Can't see the wood for the trees?
I agree in a sense, however, a more realistic idea for me would be...can't see the wood because the wood is everything and everything is the wood.


a reply to: theMediator

a reply to: Jonjonj

Not only does 'infinity' encompass all possible histories on a physical level, it also includes all possible histories of all particles at all times, every conceivable combination has to include...

Let me answer in a very simplified form.

In modern science Infinite Universe is understood only as infinite in space, infinite in "amount" of matter and in "normal science" your "infinite possible histories" is not implied.
By normal science I mean what Kuhn described in his "The structure of scientific revolution"
OP started his question meaning "normal Infinite Universe" and wondered if the application of this will lead to paradoxes
(this is how I understood his question)
If you say that your theory postulating as axiom that "Infinite Universe encompasses all histories" , Ok this is your right to say this. There is no paradox and no questions anymore. It is just axiomatically defined as such.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Jonjonj

Not only does 'infinity' encompass all possible histories on a physical level, it also includes all possible histories of all particles at all times, every conceivable combination has to include...

Let me answer in a very simplified form.

In modern science Infinite Universe is understood only as infinite in space, infinite in "amount" of matter and in "normal science" your "infinite possible histories" is not implied.
By normal science I mean what Kuhn described in his "The structure of scientific revolution"
OP started his question meaning "normal Infinite Universe" and wondered if the application of this will lead to paradoxes
(this is how I understood his question)
If you say that your theory postulating as axiom that "Infinite Universe encompasses all histories" , Ok this is your right to say this. There is no paradox and no questions anymore. It is just axiomatically defined as such.

And yet you spell universe with a capital U. By the way, if that's simplified, I won't go out for a beer with you.

I was also highlighting the absurdities that arise when talking about infinity. Infinite universe=infinite space= infinite particles= infinite absurdity.

a reply to: boymonkey74

You are asking if time is infinite, if time is infinite then time will not cease, if this is the case, then the universe will never stop changing. When it comes to alternate versions of yourself, it is very tricky because they could exist, however, because you experience life from a singular perspective (I can assume, and not multiple perspectives) you will not be able to know whether you have shifted between different timelines or not. The people that you see in your timeline could be doing different things in the timeline that they are experiencing. When it comes to science fiction, it is indeed possible however for one reason or another we have not experienced an official extraterrestrial visitation. Perhaps this world is cordoned off and thus extraterrestrials are not allowed to visit this world officially, or perhaps this world is actually run by extraterrestrials that have chosen to remain behind the curtain.

originally posted by: korkythecat
a reply to: boymonkey74

The universe is not infinite, scientists know the exact size and shape of it. From memory it is roughly rugby or football shape and is continuing to expand from the force of the "big bang"

What it is expanding into though is another topic!

cheers korky

Theres a huge difference between the observable universe and the universe as whole... We don't know the exact size at all...

My personal opinion is that infinite cannot exist. It's one of those things that really makes you wonder, but I cannot fathom something that never ends or begins. In this tangible reality we live in, that concept doesn't seem possible. Everything begins and ends, including galaxies and stars. BUT, energy can't be created or destroyed it can only change form, so perhaps the universe could be eternal, but not infinite. Maybe the vacuum of space goes on forever, but I highly doubt stars and galaxies are the same way.

The universe is huge, but I don't think it goes forever. Obviously it's pure speculation on my part but maybe the universe was originally split in half between light and dark. You have one dimension that's purely space and the other that's purely energy. Something could have happened at one point to cause the energy to bleed into the vacuum. I do feel that if a big bang can happen once, it can happen many times, all over the place. Perhaps the big bang is essentially an insertion of energy into this plane of existence, which kind of explains why scientists think singularity and break down of physics at the point of insertion, they don't consider that the energy itself came from another plane of existence. This is obviously just my personal opinion, but it makes you wonder. I don't think anything is infinite, it just doesn't seem realistic.

Hopefully science will one day get to the point where we can experiment with other dimensions, and look beyond the big bang. We'd probably need another 1000 years or so at our current level of advancement before anything that crazy though. Our civilization is still really young. 150 years of science, I can't even imagine a society that has 1000 or even 10,000 years of the same type of development.

If it is infinite, than yes, I'd expect some kind of star wars type scenario somewhere, BUT only if that stuff is actually possible to do with the laws of physics (ie lightsabers, traveling as fast as light, building ships the size of planets, etc).