Kochs and Walmart Fight to Stop Solar Panels

There is opposite of no reason to believe if progression is what humans do and want to do, solar panels will be heavily used in the future.

a reply to: soficrow

i haven't shopped at walmart in...something like 10-15 years...s**t like this just reaffirms my decision to NEVER give them another cent of my money again...

kochs and walmart both have the colors blue and white ingrained in their essence.

a reply to: soficrow

This sounds like some kind of Liberal bs post. The two most common villains for Libs are the Koch's and Walmart.

Those taxes were passed because there is expenses for maintaining the electricity grid. That outdated pile of crap isn't free. Home owner's want to have reverse meters and benefit from a grid that costs a crap load of money to maintain. They don't deserve to benefit from an expense everyone else is still paying for, so the tax is fair.

I'm a huge green energy advocate, but I don't like it when people take dumb stances that are not common sense for real world problems.

How about all the Democrats who pass absurd permits for installing them? Do you realize how expensive panels are in in the US compared to Germany? How come the liberals in Germany get it, and the Liberals here don't.

I've really started to hate Republican and Democratic ideologs. Most of the posts I see anymore are people repeating garbage they've been fed by a media that is designed around keeping us stupid. One of these days people will break free from the left/right paradigm and realize it's just two sides of the same coin.

And you are not the guy flipping the coin.

a reply to: Stuship

Most of the veteran ATS posters realize the R vs D is just a distraction to what is really going wrong.

With HOAs, insurance, and code enforcement fines, being off the grid and on ones own homemade power supply illegal in many areas of the country.

The people can win this battle, something can change but only if we all would stop being so selfish and have more concerns for the environment and the world we live in.

a reply to: soficrow

America's Founding Fathers understood the game and strategies, and built safeguards against getting caught up in it. Then their successors got bought out. When Corporations were defined as "persons" under law, the game was lost. But that doesn't mean we should get rid of all laws or the whole system.

The truth? Americans founding fathers had only one interest. Themselves and there business, anything from cotton to tabaco to slavery to you name it. And there interest was to keep it all, mostly from the old money British monarchy, and well they had to devise a way to keep all that and there freedoms, all the rest was merely a selling point to get backing behind them, and it worked.

And in time they became old money and begrudged the new money. And so on it went. Till we come to today. So I am sure they will all find a way. After all it has been working that way for centuries and centuries. So why would it not work in this century? The answer is no reason what so ever.

a reply to: jrod

So one Jrod to another.

I don't get into the entire uppity save the environment nonsense. Most people want to install solar panels because it saves them money in states that have insane energy costs, or have inflated costs of living due to poor local and state government. The bi-product of this need is fantastic for the environment so we all win from that.

The problem is government, and how both sides want to screw you. There appears to be no way to fix that.

a reply to: Stuship

Yet as a species we are devastating this planet for profit....just the environmentalist in me.

We need a better mindset, too many do not care and trash the world.

Solar and other alternative power supplies are out there. We have a society that has grown up on the grid and are reluctant to change, the power grid is something we have become dependent on. The business of metered electricity is part of the oligarchy that control the US interests and they are still mining oil and natural gas and need buyers.

a reply to: Stuship

...Those taxes were passed because there is expenses for maintaining the electricity grid. That outdated pile of crap isn't free. Home owner's want to have reverse meters and benefit from a grid that costs a crap load of money to maintain. They don't deserve to benefit from an expense everyone else is still paying for, so the tax is fair.

These homeowners already contribute to grid maintenance when they buy electricity. They pay for grid maintenance again by selling their 'extra' power cheap, allowing the utility to mark it up several hundred percent - partly for grid maintenance. Homeowners also pay for the reverse meters, although it's the utility who wants homeowners' electricity.

Exactly how many times over do you think people should keep paying for the exact same thing?

No...Let us not. No reason to create a non-issue to hide the culpability of gangsters. What we have here is another example of the GOP's war on a persons right to make decisions that greatly improves their life. The real socialists are the 1%ers who demand state sponsored wealth for life. We recently saw this with the bail-out for Wall St. Banking and Investment firms. What created the greatest theft of wealth in history in 2008 is set for a replay. The new Republican majority wasn't sworn in before they proposed the elimination of the Banking reforms implemented to reduce criminal behavior.

What a scam those crafty parasitic leeches dreamed up!...lol. Think about it...you deposit your wages in the bank, then unbeknown to you the bank invests your money in risky investment schemes. If and when they lose their profits it's you who loses and requires tax-payers to rescue the bank with a bail-out. In other words, their losses are collective and their profits are private! Talk about socialism!?...lol. Yet, when someone calls for reform in the Health Industry and offers the idea that what money the Govt. pays in health programs should be alloted to a non-profit organization to reach our goal of reducing the cost of health care. then the wrath of Wall St. and brain dead republican (and democrats) supporters cry foul!...Thats socialism!,,,bla...bla...bla...

They are quick to denounce "entitlements" yet they are the biggest recipients. Yesterday i fired my private health ins, co. after a year in "their" plan. They are notorious with low-balling the first year with a low premium only to increase it in the second year once you are "in" their system. I receive medi-care and I'm a veteran and only go to VA for health needs. I only bought the private Ins. to take advantage of cheaper RX co-payments. I called and they asked why I'm firing them. I told them I don't wish to contribute to their stock holders and bonuses to their corporate management team.

But obviously Wall St. done a good job brainwashing people to believe consumer prudence is socialistic while Wall St. buys politicians to keep them the middle-man in all transactions in America. Look, a person knows a good deal when they see it. Wall St. hires shyster salesmen to obscure the obvious by adding and subtracting options that quickly renders the consumer in a confused state. By the time their done telling you they are saving you money with their abstract mind bending equation, read the fine print before you sign! Thats what we have in Washington.

The Elite would sell their mother to get a leg up on you. It's a problem in all areas of business today. They get richer you get exploited. They don't produce jobs and fail in being a positive asset to society. The Koch brothers and anyone of their ilk are parasites on the growth of the nation. They rape the world and take advantage you and your environment. Of course they buy influence in Washington and you can bet your farm you and yours will be damaged in the long run. It's obvious to anyone who can see it's not capitalism, which requires rational guidance, It's Predatory Capitalism where the slaves pay for the existence of the Elite. If anyone tells you otherwise, remember they are pissing down your back and telling you it's only raining. a reply to: pl3bscheese

Yeah...well...those people you are talking about is dissin my life. You may accept it but i don't. I require a govt. that makes logical and rational decisions when they legislate Laws. Laws that pull people together rather than apart. This is a criminal enterprise that needs to be dealt with. Blaming the voters is a cheap shot that fixes nothing. Demanding real and effectual investigations and swift penalties for criminals in Govt. is a necessity. a reply to: Jamie1

And neither are you.a reply to: Stuship

originally posted by: RedmoonMWC

originally posted by: Jamie1
a reply to: soficrow

Lobbyist don't pass laws.

Elected representatives do.

Why not blame them?

True.
But it is the Lobbyists who bribe the Elected Representatives with campaign donations.

Because the representatives have no choice but to accept. Lol.

Well it seems to me that the captains of industry just don’t want the competition They look at these people, that sell or feed electricity into the grid when they got a surplus, as small time operators cutting into their business. One sees here an indication of a lack of spirit for competition What ever happened to the idea of a competitive market? These days one mainly hears about the free market and the idea of competition is not embraced. But the main
argument for unregulated industry is that the market is regulated and shaped by competition.

A number of problems can be seen here, but the basic problem would be powerful interests attempting a perversion of a free market. They are recommending a governmental action to complecate or hinder a competitor from engaging in free enterprise. Of course their argument most often extols the ultimate necessity for their operation as it is the mainstay of the market. Or in other words, they are the market, without them there would be no market. Electricity is there because of them. any disruption to the serenity of their operation, could result in undesirable consequences for that market. Now any sensible response to that would be a diversification, a careful reorganization that would eliminate the danger of such a thinly sourced market. Which is best? A flexible adaptive market made up of many principals with ideas and innovation, or a brittle market dominated by oversized over capitalized players who need to have no concerns for the way business is practiced.

It’s not the voters. It’s not the representatives, or the lobbyists. It’s not even the Koch brothers. It’s the money stupid.

It’s true that guns don’t kill people, it’s the people that kill people. But in the case of money, it’s not people that kill governments, it’s money that kills governments.

Here is how they maintain control over us. They spy on all of us in very unknown intrusive ways. They then use the information gathered to blackmale the elected into participating in their plans. Everyone we elect is a sinner the same as all of us. The key to maintaining their power is by demonizing very human acts that are our very nature to do. The ones who go around in support of saying this or that is immoral are the protectors of the 1%. There job is to get you emotionally riled up against acts that were designed by the blackmailers. In many cases it only takes the preception that someone has done something to sway their support.

The day one of our leaders comes out and says i done this or that and we all say how does that affect your ability to lead us and we go on is the day we will be free.

a reply to: soficrow

As an example bad weather downs power lines, poles, so the maintenance of the grid never actually ends. The taxes never end due to it too. I think people should have to pay for it as long as there is power to turn the lights on.

originally posted by: learnatic
a reply to: soficrow

If solar panels are eating into profits thats one thing but what may also concern some is that an independet supply of energy brings independance and some people dont like that.

The way the corporations work is that the price of electricity is set by demand; when supply exceeds demand, the price is set by the cheapest energy producer, and so the most expensive producers have to move to standby; when demand exceeds supply, the price is set by the most expensive energy producer. Power companies don't like having stations spending most of the time on standby as it isn't profitable.

When demand exceeds supply, that's when the profits are made - all the power grids are bidding to get their demand needs met, and these times are periods of intense sunlight during the day, or windy cold weather.

At these times, solar or wind power are at the most productive, and can make up for this difference in demand. Thus there are no longer any high profits to be made.

lol The example of mother nature degrading the lines to the point that all the money we pay the company goes toward repair is false. A very small portion goes toward maintance. When a storm comes and damages the lines severly then the gov. steps in and declares an emergency and hands out millions to companies already pocketing cash.

The majority of the budget an elec co. has is actually in line clearing and that is somewhere under 5% of your monthly bill. The lines themselves are aluminum so they do not rust. If they break they just splice it in most cases. The lifespan of a transformer is very long. The majority of our bills goes into pockets and the stock market.

a reply to: soficrow

In the story you cited it said that he was accused of redirecting streams that crossed his property in order to fill his ponds. Not sure where the truth lies at this point.

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: Sovaka

....In some parts of the US and AU, it is illegal to catch water off your roof due to "stealing from the watershed".

You're kidding, right? ...Happened in the Cochabamba Water War I know, but...?

Found 1 article with that phrase on Google. So it begins?

Oregon RAINMAN Begins Jail Sentence for Collecting Rain Water on Property

An Oregon man started has started his 30 day jail term. His crime? Collecting what he claims is water in ponds on his property. The state of Oregon says he's stealing from the watershed that helps provide Medford with water.

In this light, being charged for stealing sunshine is not such a leap. : (

It has happened it Utah a few times. Now Utah has rainwater registration.


Here is most of the text from the picture above

Rainwater Harvesting Registration



Name
Telephone: Area Code & Number

Address where rainwater is to be harvested:
(Street, RFD, Box Number)

(City, State, Zip)


Storage Size (Storage is limited to 2,500 gallons.)




•To collect, store, and place the captured precipitation to a beneficial use, a person must register the use with the Utah Division of Water Rights as detailed in 73-3-1.5.
•A person may collect and store precipitation without registering in no more than two covered storage containers if neither covered container has a maximum storage capacity of greater than 100 gallons.
•The total allowed storage capacity with registration is no more than 2,500 gallons. Collection and use are limited to the same parcel of land on which the water is captured and stored.
•There is no charge for registration.
•When you submit this form, your browser will be redirected to the Rainwater Harvesting Registration certificate, which you should print for your records.

waterrights.utah.gov...


Rainwater registration is new. The Car wash story was last year I think

Who owns the rain? Not you, it turns out. You're actually breaking the law if you capture the rain falling on your roof and pour it on your flower bed! A prominent Utah car dealer found that out when he tried to do something good for the environment.

Rebecca Nelson captures rainwater in a barrel, and she pours it on her plants. "We can fill up a barrel in one rainstorm. And so it seems a waste to just let it fall into the gravel," she said.

Car dealer Mark Miller wanted to do pretty much the same thing on a bigger scale. He collects rainwater on the roof of his new building, stores it in a cistern and hopes to clean cars with it in a new, water-efficient car wash. But without a valid water right, state officials say he can't legally divert rainwater. "I was surprised. We thought it was our water," Miller said.

www.ksl.com...