Kochs and Walmart Fight to Stop Solar Panels

originally posted by: Jamie1

Then it's the ignorance of the voters who put incompetent and unethical politicians into office.

If she didn't want to get raped then she shouldn't have gone a date with that guy!

In case you can't tell...I am finding this line of defense both a logic fail and offensive.

It is not unfair to expect our elected representatives to represent us.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Jamie1

Then it's the ignorance of the voters who put incompetent and unethical politicians into office.

If she didn't want to get raped then she shouldn't have gone a date with that guy!

In case you can't tell...I am finding this line of defense both a logic fail and offensive.

It is not unfair to expect our elected representatives to represent us.

Expecting something that never happens is not logical, fair or not.

Government will always serve the strongest influence.

That has never been the voters exclusively.

Well, if you ask me, they were always subtly trying to discourage people from going solar. I've been researching and watching prices for a few years now and it seems to me if they ever wanted millions and millions of people to go solar it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

Solar panels are expensive (especially the good ones). If you don't know how to install them yourself, it would probably take some time to find someone to do it for you and that wouldn't be cheap either. Then you have to buy batteries, which cost a small fortune and only last a few years if you actually use them. Then you have to install the inverter and various wires and devices. None of this is the kind of thing the average guy with a 9 to 5 is going to want to mess with.

Add to this the fact that if you live in an apartment or condo or something there's probably no way they're going to put up with it.

At the end of the day, you're probably looking at $5,000 (minimum) for an average sized house and you probably have to replace batteries that cost at least $100 a piece every few years. If you actually care about the environment, this might make sense. If you're trying to save money, I kind of doubt it.

When will the people see and do some thing about the mob (criminals)
that are running things?

the government is people who trick us into
giving them money for looking like they do some thing.
I bet we need less than 50% of them.

Parasites!
and killing the host

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: RedmoonMWC

originally posted by: Jamie1
a reply to: soficrow

Lobbyist don't pass laws.

Elected representatives do.

Why not blame them?

True.
But it is the Lobbyists who bribe the Elected Representatives with campaign donations.

Then blame the voters.

The point being it's nothing but a feel good, ad hominem attack on Walmart and the Koch brothers to demonize them. They don't vote, and they don't accept the campaign money.

So what? Demonize the lobbyist. Then ask the politicians getting paid by the lobbyist to pass laws preventing them from taking campaign money. And by the way, they're not bribes. The ex-Governor in Virginia just got sentenced for accepting what where basically bribes.

The responsibility is squarely on the shoulders of the voters. If they're so apathetic and ignorant to vote based on party every election, and are swayed by 30 second commercials and yard signs, that's their own doing.

That argument is all well and good from a philosophical perspective but is rather sad from a practical point of view. It suggests an "Oh well, things are as they are" sort of approach. In an idealistic world things might be that simple but in the real world they rarely are. You fail to take into account the divide and conquer media that dominates this country and provides a fairly accurate picture of American voting blocs. MSNBC = LEFT, CNN =MIDDLE/MIDDLE LEFT AND FOX = RIGHT. Obviously that is an oversimplification but it also very easy to blame the electorate with taking into account that most Americans have been brainwashed through the education system, the media and various social incentives. I'm extremely sad to say, at age 27, that my country's future looks quite scary indeed. It appears, at least on the surface, TPTB have done an excellent job dividing America into a this or that, black or white, right or wrong, two party society where we are "allowed" to vote for the two people the put forth. As far as the third party guys go, it provides a two-fold benefit to the status quo, they are ignored by the MSM and simply further the campaign of the person they are most ideologically opposed to by "taking away" votes from their closest mainstream rival.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Yet another post that essentially says solar is too expensive and difficult for the average Joe to deal with it.

Most people I know like do it yourself projects. As far as the expense, look at how much the average American spends on their car, for a fraction of that one can build themselves a large solar array with a battery bank, charge controller, and inverter.

It makes sense and the cost is not all that prohibitive.

When a households or business's central AC goes out, does the owner ever decide it is not worth all the trouble and money to replace it?

a reply to: jrod

Well...for something that is expensive and impracticle...it sure has the power companies worried

Right now, it makes economic sense/good math in regions of the country like AZ, which is why that is ground zero for utility companies trying to stomp on it.

As solar technology evolves and improves...it will become more efficient and economically logical in a growing percentage of the USA.

It's an interesting time right now.

Below is the current map for Solar energy returns given current tech.

Germany might have the best batteries

Solar power in Germany consists mostly of photovoltaics (PV) and accounted for 6.2 percent of the country's net-electricity generation in 2014.[2] The country has been the world's top PV installer for several years and still leads in terms of the overall installed capacity, that amounts to 38,128 megawatts (MW) by November 2014, ahead of China, Italy, Japan, and the United States.[3]
en.wikipedia.org...

Greetings:

It seems like an eternity since we worked with Jane Fonda on a video entitled: "Sunpower: The Force Is With Us".
If memory serves correctly, Jerry Brown introduced us to Tom Hayden way back when (early '70's SDS days), during the time we wuz researching quite heavily and conceptualizing High Times - hazy, smoke-filled days of "soulful socialism" (no 'keyboard activism' then), and years before CED, SolarCal, Laurel Springs and the darling of the Stone Ponies coming to dine…another story, another time.

This thread has taken a great many twists and turns, so this may be of significant interest.




Walmart Completes Solar Power Projects in Maryland with SolarCity

25 June 2013
BELTSVILLE, MD – Walmart and SolarCity today announced the completion of projects at eight Walmart stores and two Sam’s Clubs across the state of Maryland that will generate clean, renewable electricity. The energy produced by the new solar installations will generate approximately 4.1 million kilowatt hours (kWh) of electricity annually – enough energy to power nearly 370 homes – and are expected to supply between 5-20 percent of each store’s overall electricity use.


Solar Energy "just makes sense for Walmart" - Walmart Rooftop in Puerto Rico (photo courtesy of Walmart)


“Building a clean energy economy creates new jobs and provides affordable, reliable clean energy choices for businesses,” said Abigail Ross Hopper, director of the Maryland Energy Administration. “The partnership between SolarCity and Walmart shows that we’re taking the right steps.”

With over 13,400 panels, the Walmart stores in Arbutus, Berlin, California, Cockeysville, Fallston, Hagerstown, Laurel and Severn, along with Sam’s Clubs in Salisbury and Severn will provide over 3.1 megawatts (MW) of generation capacity.

“Walmart is a leader in clean energy here in Maryland and across the country,” said SolarCity CEO Lyndon Rive. “Walmart is setting an example for companies in Maryland to follow; it’s possible for many Maryland businesses to pay less for solar power than they currently pay for electricity.”





Walmart aims for 1,000 more stores to have rooftop solar by 2020, like this Walmart in Hawaii. (photo courtesy of Walmart)

SolarCity Announces New Solar Power and Energy Storage Projects with Walmart

20 November 2014
SAN MATEO, Calif., - SolarCity (Nasdaq: SCTY) today announced it has entered into contract with Walmart for the installation of new solar projects at facilities in up to 36 states over the next four years. SolarCity has completed more than 200 solar projects at Walmart locations since 2010. SolarCity has also installed and tested energy storage projects co-located with solar power generation at 13 Walmart facilities since early 2013, and will be incorporating ten additional storage projects in the next year.

Since the company’s last announcement in 2013, SolarCity has installed nearly 50 solar projects for Walmart including:
• Arizona – 10 carport and 2 rooftop projects totaling more than 5 megawatts
• California – 12 rooftop and 3 carport projects totaling 6.3 megawatts
• New York – 4 rooftop projects totaling 1.6 megawatts
• Oregon – 3 rooftop projects totaling 283 kilowatts
• Puerto Rico – 13 rooftop projects totaling 2.9 megawatts

Walmart is also at the forefront of commercializing storage technology and was a pilot customer for SolarCity’s energy storage system for businesses. Since early 2013, Walmart has tested 13 battery storage projects with solar installations across California to provide additional savings to Walmart by using stored electricity to lower peak demand charges.  The next ten solar energy storage projects will each use a larger 200 kilowatt (400 kilowatt hour) battery, expanding battery storage capabilities as well as further reducing energy expense.

SolarCity has created 5,000 permanent American jobs since it initiated its first project with Walmart in 2010.

Walmart is the top commercial solar energy user in the United States according to the Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA), and the largest on-site renewable energy user in America according to EPA’s Green Power Partnership.

And that Top Ten be:
Wal-Mart
Apple
USDOE
BMW, Greer, SC
City of Philadelphia
Coca Cola
Kohl's Department Stores
University of Mississippi
SC Johnson & Son
City of San Diego

Peace Love Light
tfw Liberty & Equality or Revolution

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Yet another post that essentially says solar is too expensive and difficult for the average Joe to deal with it.

How much less expensive would it be if we modeled our systems on nature's lessons of stacked functions that provide strength and fallback positions? So instead of an expensive giant solar array in the North to compete with fossil fuels in a 1-for-1 trade, why not build a rocket mass heater to gouge your heating cost and take the load off of your batteries? I plan to use solar, wind, rocket mass (both for thermal mass and water heating), and compost energy/heat in my future and the overall interconnectivity of the system will probably evolve over time as I'm exposed to different methods/strategies. This kind of stuff is snowballing into the public online DIY library and will only get better over time. Other methods to chip away at the problem involve constructing better insulated homes (moving away from inefficient square foot mansions too) whether it's total encapsulating a conventional home to building elegant cob homes. This stuff is out there, it's not as gloomy as 95% of ATS perceives.

Here is a link to an excellent forum, and more specifically a thread about DIY batteries.

www.permies.com...

Within is a link on how to make your own NiFe battery which according to what I've read lasts a lot longer and can take more abuse than a conventional acid battery, so that covers some of the cost of switching off the grid.

Use Permaculture methods in congress with your local community for bringing produce and protein to your table in a sustainable, nutrient-dense, varied fashion.

Suddenly the giant organizations that we once believed we needed to maintain our comfortable lifestyle, much less for our basic needs, melt away due to attrition.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Yet another post that essentially says solar is too expensive and difficult for the average Joe to deal with it.

Hey. I'm just being realistic. I'm the kind of guy who likes nerdy stuff like this (which is why I'm even vaguely following what's going on with it). But most people are would balk once they find out what is really required to do it right. Most people would have to pay someone to find all the right stuff and install it right and that would not be cheap.

The people who are going to be interested are people who actually believe in the environmental thing. This is not going to be something that's going to save the average person money unless the initial cost goes way down. Not to mention the cost of keeping it going over the long haul. If you've got a house you've financed, you're probably going to need at least 30 years of power. A set of $200 a piece batteries will probably last 10 years max and you probably need at least ten of them. That's 2000 dollars (on top of the initial outlay). If nothing else goes wrong. And you're probably still going to need grid power from time to time.

Again, I think there might be a subtle effort to make it complicated and expensive so people just take one look at it and say "no way".

You might want to make a note of the fact that I'm not against alternative energy. I just think it needs to be cheaper and easier for the average consumer to buy into it. You don't sell people a car that costs 100 grand and they have to take it home in a bunch of boxes and put it together themselves. Sure. People will spend a lot on a car but they expect it to just work. You go to a car lot, you pick one out and you drive it home. Done.

You know, for example, if you buy a Honda, you pretty much know exactly what you're buying, how long it will last and so forth. It's not cheap but it's a known quantity. Solar is still complicated and if you don't have any idea what you're buying, it could be a real mess. A person could spend a lot of money and then find they have no idea what to do with what they've paid for. People don't like that. That's just reality.

What really needs to happen is someone needs to sell a box that does everything. No assembly required. That'll probably happen but I haven't seen anything close for the right price. At least nothing that can run a house. And you're still kind of out of luck if you live in an apartment or something.

a reply to: mOjOm

How lame are we to get f*cked in the ass repeatedly only to act surprised when it happens again tomorrow???

Whoaah...! whoa now...I'm as equally disgusted with this step by corporations to seal up another hole in the net to hold back the smart fish escaping the net of dependence on the system, but to use as an illustration an act representing the peak of gay intimacy and affection as an analogy of repeated pain and discomfort...well, that's going a bit too far mister! I suggest a read of a recent post celebrating the soon to be fairy tale marriage of Stephen Fry and his hubby. Times have changed mister!

God I hate Wall-Mart. My wife is shopping there as I type this bahhhh.

Here you have the supression of alternative energy at the hands of the ruling class. We even know who they are this time yet we allow the slime to live among us, take from us, abuse us, conquer us. We could get rid of these creatures the old fashioned way but they will get thier way and buy thier way because they know they have won. America is suffering from mass stockholm syndrome.

originally posted by: Golden Rule

Whoaah...! whoa now...I'm as equally disgusted with this step by corporations to seal up another hole in the net to hold back the smart fish escaping the net of dependence on the system, but to use as an illustration an act representing the peak of gay intimacy and affection as an analogy of repeated pain and discomfort...well, that's going a bit too far mister! I suggest a read of a recent post celebrating the soon to be fairy tale marriage of Stephen Fry and his hubby. Times have changed mister!

In that case change "f*cked" to "Raped" and leave the rest as is.

Sorry if I inflicted any discomfort with my analogy.

a reply to: soficrow

The trouble is and will continue to be is what seems like 'free energy' is very expensive to manufacture! I was working with a University in Chicago that was developing a solar system that was like a roll of aluminum foil and would have been cheap, but the university was given a bunch of money from the government and the guy in charge of the solar systems said the money went into the pockets of some of their faculty members and they shut his department down! I was doing PM work on the machines and he called and asked if we wanted to purchase equipment as they were folding!
Another thing he showed me was a hydrogen/hybrid car they built at a cost of more than $150K and they took it to a few shows and now it sets in a 150 year old warehouse and he told me they were given tons of money for the project and they never planned to do anything with it as this has all been done before but he said all you have to do is say you are working on 'alternative energy' equipment and he said the government throws money at you, no questions asked!
Until we weed out the greediness we will never see serious push to build cheap solar panels and alternative energy!

Glendora, California Sam's Club Solar Panels (photo courtesy Sam's Club)

SolarCity and Bank of America Merrill Lynch Create Program to Finance Approximately $400 Million in Residential Solar Projects

11 December 2014
SolarCity (Nasdaq: SCTY) today announced that it has created a new investment program with Bank of America Merrill Lynch (NYSE: BAC) to finance an estimated $400 million in solar power projects in 2014 and 2015. The new financing makes it possible for thousands of American homeowners to install solar panels with no upfront cost and pay less for solar electricity than they currently pay for utility power. The new residential program follows Bank of America Merrill’s prior commitment to finance more than $200 million in commercial solar power projects with SolarCity, and continues the two companies’ long-term partnership to deploy clean energy.

SolarCity is currently providing one out of every three new residential solar power systems in the U.S. The company supports its customers with the largest in-house service footprint in the industry—its 55 operations centers serve 15 states.

The new program is part of Bank of America’s current 10-year, $50 billion environmental business goal to advance lower-carbon economic solutions through lending, equipment finance, capital markets and advisory activities, and investment advice and solutions for clients around the world. Since 2007, the bank has dedicated $31.7 billion to low-carbon and other environmental business activities.


SolarCity Announces Fund to Finance more than $350 Million in Residential Solar Projects with J.P. Morgan

7 January 2015
SolarCity (Nasdaq: SCTY) today announced an investment fund expected to finance more than $350 million in solar power projects with J.P. Morgan. The fund is the second created by the two companies, and a follow-up to a fund created to finance approximately $170 million projects in 2013. The financing makes it possible for thousands of American homeowners to install solar panels with no upfront cost and pay less for solar electricity than they currently pay for utility bills.

SolarCity, the nation’s #1 solar service provider, is currently providing more than one out of every three new solar power systems in the U.S. The company supports its customers with the largest in-house service footprint in the industry—its more than 65 operations centers serve 15 states. J.P. Morgan is a global leader in renewable energy investment. Since 2003, the company has financed more than $1.4 billion of renewable generation capacity in wind, solar and geothermal projects.

About SolarCity

SolarCity® (NASDAQ: SCTY) provides clean energy. The company has disrupted the century-old energy industry by providing renewable electricity directly to homeowners, businesses and government organizations for less than they spend on utility bills. SolarCity gives customers control of their energy costs to protect them from rising rates. The company makes solar energy easy by taking care of everything from design and permitting to monitoring and maintenance. SolarCity currently serves 15 states and signs up approximately one new customer every minute of the work day.

This sounds like a "revolutionary" company! - IMHO, of course...
We keep dropping hints…
What?
No 'Musk-o-vites' out there?
Elon would be disappointed… lol
-X marks the spot in Space

Solar Power Installations Jump to a New Annual Record

29 July 2014

The year 2013 saw record-breaking growth for solar electricity generation as the photovoltaic (PV) and concentrated solar thermal power (CSP) markets continued to grow. With over 39 gigawatts installed worldwide, the PV solar market represented one third of all newly-added renewable energy capacity, write Worldwatch's Max Lander and Climate and Energy Intern Xiangyu Wu in the Worldwatch Institute's latest Vital Signs Online trend.

Solar PV installations nearly matched those of hydropower and, for the first time, outpaced wind additions. Even though photovoltaics continue to dwarf CSP capacity, the CSP market also had another year of impressive growth. By the end of 2013, a total of 19 countries had CSP plants installed or under construction…
For the first time, Asia overtook Europe as the largest regional market, capturing more than 56 percent of the market share, while Europe came in second with around 29 percent.

Despite the record growth in installations, global investments in solar electricity were down 20 percent, from $142.9 billion in 2012 to $113.7 billion in 2013, reflecting a significant decrease in costs.

In July 2014, global PV module spot prices reached an all-time low of 63ȼ per watt, a 10 percent decrease from the previous year.

One thing that came to mind reading this page of the thread is this. If you have a roof mounted system that puppy has to come off to replace the roofing underneath. That might be a problem for some folks, looking at the pictures of the Walmart roof man that would be a lot of work to replace the roof.

Just an observation.
Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: Iwinder

Only because its a system added after thought.

If the project/building was designed from the start, the solar system would be integrated into the roofing system to allow quick repair/replace of either component.

That aside,
SlickMcFavorite wrote;

Suddenly the giant organizations that we once believed we needed to maintain our comfortable lifestyle, much less for our basic needs, melt away due to attrition.

Or as proof of the OP, these organizations will lobby for laws to prevent you from doing just that.
Look at the past where they have attacked organic grow ops and organic food producers.
In some parts of the US and AU, it is illegal to catch water off your roof due to "stealing from the watershed".

Any way that you can make yourself self sufficient, they will attack and prevent at all costs.

a reply to: Sovaka

....In some parts of the US and AU, it is illegal to catch water off your roof due to "stealing from the watershed".

You're kidding, right? ...Happened in the Cochabamba Water War I know, but...?

Found 1 article with that phrase on Google. So it begins?

Oregon RAINMAN Begins Jail Sentence for Collecting Rain Water on Property

An Oregon man started has started his 30 day jail term. His crime? Collecting what he claims is water in ponds on his property. The state of Oregon says he's stealing from the watershed that helps provide Medford with water.

In this light, being charged for stealing sunshine is not such a leap. : (