Did Christ Die deliberately to make us feel Guilty?

a reply to: Akragon

I think we have a different operating understanding of divinity. When I say an entity is divine I don't mean it was created by God, I mean it IS God.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yeah i've been saying that... You view of divine is much different then my own

I said it before... To you divine = God

Nothing more or less.... Which i disagree with but thats ok

So if angels are divine messengers... They are God?

a reply to: Akragon

So if angels are divine messengers... They are God?

No, if they are divine messengers they are sent by God with some message of some sort. An emissary of God, but not God Himself.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
That would be the anti-Trinitarian position ^^.

This is the Trinitarian position, and it is illogical.

God is Father
God is Son
God is Holy Spirit

God = Father
God = Son
God = Holy Spirit

Now

Father is not Son
Son is not Holy Spirit
Holy Spirit is not Father

Father =/= Son
Son =/= Holy Spirit
Holy Spirit =/= Father

Father = God = Son = God = Holy Spirit is logical, but not correct according to the Trinity.

This doesn't make sense.

a reply to: TheArrow

This doesn't make sense.

Don't feel bad, people have struggled with it for 2000 years. My point was that it's the anti-Trinitarians who believe Jesus was praying to Himself in the garden. That it was the voice of Jesus speaking to Himself at His baptism, et cetra.

Jesus was attempting to stage a kind of mass uprising against the Romans, but failed. He didn't intend to be executed, but rather to be king of the Jews.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Akragon

So if angels are divine messengers... They are God?

No, if they are divine messengers they are sent by God with some message of some sort. An emissary of God, but not God Himself.

Except you just said this

When I say an entity is divine I don't mean it was created by God, I mean it IS God.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
Don't feel bad, people have struggled with it for 2000 years. My point was that it's the anti-Trinitarians who believe Jesus was praying to Himself in the garden. That it was the voice of Jesus speaking to Himself at His baptism, et cetra.

Oh, I never feel bad. I don't understand any of it.

It seems the circular logic is more of a rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock in this instance.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Akragon

So if angels are divine messengers... They are God?

No, if they are divine messengers they are sent by God with some message of some sort. An emissary of God, but not God Himself.

Except you just said this

When I say an entity is divine I don't mean it was created by God, I mean it IS God.

Correct. I'm not saying divine messengers are divinity themselves, I said a divine messenger is sent by God.

originally posted by: TheArrow

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
Don't feel bad, people have struggled with it for 2000 years. My point was that it's the anti-Trinitarians who believe Jesus was praying to Himself in the garden. That it was the voice of Jesus speaking to Himself at His baptism, et cetra.

Oh, I never feel bad. I don't understand any of it.

It seems the circular logic is more of a rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock in this instance.

I know what you are saying, my comment was basically saying you aren't alone. No biggie.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Sin is translated in ancient desert languages (Hebrew and Aramaic) as "the transgression/breaking of God's Law".

So I will not use the word "sin" since it doesn't compute for you personally.

"The punishment for the Transgression of God's Laws (recorded as the English word sin) is death" - recorded over 40 times in scripture.

Jesus Christ lived a life without transgressing God's Laws (without sin), as such he was NOT GUILTY of the death punishment he received.

Jesus Christ "paid the price" (death) for transgressing God's laws on behalf of mankind.

He served the punishment having never committed the crime, so that those who commit the crime can be forgiven of the punishment associated with the crime... Through God's sacrifice of Jesus Christ as mankind's Passover lamb.

God Bless,

a reply to: TheArrow

One God. The Father, The Almighty, The Creator of all that is seen and unseen.

The Son. Born of mankind, did not eternally exist, the Word (thoughts/logos) of God created in flesh.

The Holy Spirit. God's mind (spirit), it is Holy because it belongs to God, it is not a separate being. The Word (thoughts/logos) made spirit (mind/communicated)

There is no trinity. There is One God, his Son our high priest Jesus Christ (first of the first-fruits of salvation) and God's mind (Spirit which is Holy because it is God's) which reveals things to mankind according to God's will/purpose.

God Bless,

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Don't feel bad, people have struggled with it for 2000 years. My point was that it's the anti-Trinitarians

Wow.
Did you just really say this??? ^^^

"Don't feel bad" I'm fine with. But the circumlocutory logic of what you are proposing as truth, combined with your preferred 'sources', make it so blatantly obvious that in all these years, you haven't spent ANY time thinking things over from a rational point of view.

That's such a shame. Time to let go of all that pain and shame and self-loathing, NuT.
You can still be fine and whole without having to kneel to any of those myths.

originally posted by: ElohimJD
a reply to: TheArrow

One God. The Father, The Almighty, The Creator of all that is seen and unseen.

The Son. Born of mankind, did not eternally exist, the Word (thoughts/logos) of God created in flesh.

The Holy Spirit. God's mind (spirit), it is Holy because it belongs to God, it is not a separate being. The Word (thoughts/logos) made spirit (mind/communicated)

There is no trinity. There is One God, his Son our high priest Jesus Christ (first of the first-fruits of salvation) and God's mind (Spirit which is Holy because it is God's) which reveals things to mankind according to God's will/purpose.

God Bless,

So Jesus isn't a God now? This is all so confusing.

a reply to: TheArrow

In many ways, it's ridiculous. But - who am I to say?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You have to understand though Buzzy...

No one "really" understands the trinity... Not even the priests and pastors...

They are told to just submit to it as truth... "some things we aren't supposed to understand"

They can't just admit that it actually makes no logical sense...

that's basically tossing the roots of Christianity out the window

Hold fast to our beliefs no matter how nonsensical they might seem... Its all true

a reply to: Akragon

But I don't struggle with it. I can fathom three infinite things being equal because of mathematics. In advanced math you can easily have 3 separate infinite numbers being equal. So it's really never tripped me up. I personally think what trips people up is with thinking in terms of finite things that everyone is accustomed to seeing in everyday life in our space-time dimension.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Akragon

But I don't struggle with it. I can fathom three infinite things being equal because of mathematics. In advanced math you can easily have 3 separate infinite numbers being equal. So it's really never tripped me up. I personally think what trips people up is with thinking in terms of finite things that everyone is accustomed to seeing in everyday life in our space-time dimension.

What you can't have is three infinite numbers that are equal to a fourth number but not equal with each other.

That's the rub.

You also can't have three infinite numbers added to a forth, and still retain equality.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Thats not math my friend... That is theology

So of course you don't have a hard time with it..

Infinity isn't a number... And in math 3 never equals 1

a reply to: TheArrow

I never said having the numbers added. I said it's easy for me to fathom 3 separate infinite numbers all equal to the same thing... infinity.

Link