Did Christ Die deliberately to make us feel Guilty?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Thats not math my friend... That is theology

So of course you don't have a hard time with it..

Infinity isn't a number... And in math 3 never equals 1

An infinite number is a concept in math. Pi is an example of an infinite number.

Mathematics can help illustrate the mind-bending concept of infinity, around since ancient times. Common numbers used in basic mathematics stretch on infinitely but fit neatly into simple equations. Using these numbers is an essential part of learning fractions in arithmetic, measuring circles in geometry and delving into advanced algebraic concepts such as square roots.

Link

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TheArrow

I never said having the numbers added. I said it's easy for me to fathom 3 separate infinite numbers all equal to the same thing... infinity.

So, there are three infinite Gods? I don't understand.

originally posted by: TheArrow

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TheArrow

I never said having the numbers added. I said it's easy for me to fathom 3 separate infinite numbers all equal to the same thing... infinity.

So, there are three infinite Gods? I don't understand.

No, 3 separate distinct infinite persons, comprising 1 infinite God.

Infinity

It's virtually impossible to fathom if you think of it in terms of a finite being like you or I.

To 1 LORD JESUS CHRIST displayed attributes associated to a ID/UD or Interdimensional/Ultradimensional Being...
So though he WAS said to be attacked and then attempted to be killed, those who made the attempt may not of known what they were dealing with.

Subjectively observing he could of very well asked OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN to send support from ABOVE that could of eliminated the threat upon his flesh but the LOVE he had for HUMANITY caused him not to request such supports. Perhaps he knew if he did what that would of meant for mankind unfortunately. So instead of making the request to come from the HEAVENS or ABOVE EA*RTH with his LOVE and LACK of ignorance he allowed man to attack him sadly...

By allowing the ignorance of man the opportunity to attack he and not calling in supports from FATHER he basically died in the flesh so that man could continue perhaps with HOPE mankind would change its ways
And this is how 1 interprets LORD JESUS CHRIST dying in the flesh on the CROSS for the sake of saving mankind from "supports" from the heavens. If this is the case 1 would HOPE mankind eventually gets its acts together before the SON is said to return or before FATHER gathers enough intelligence from direct interactions of mankind with the HOLY GHOST and the intelligence gathered shares data that NO man has not changed and then "supports" from the HEAVENS (Above) are sent down here to Re-balance the unbalanced...

So his sacrifice of flesh for the sake of humanity continuation to 1 should be deeply appreciated.

NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

originally posted by: TheArrow

originally posted by: ElohimJD
a reply to: TheArrow

One God. The Father, The Almighty, The Creator of all that is seen and unseen.

The Son. Born of mankind, did not eternally exist, the Word (thoughts/logos) of God created in flesh.

The Holy Spirit. God's mind (spirit), it is Holy because it belongs to God, it is not a separate being. The Word (thoughts/logos) made spirit (mind/communicated)

There is no trinity. There is One God, his Son our high priest Jesus Christ (first of the first-fruits of salvation) and God's mind (Spirit which is Holy because it is God's) which reveals things to mankind according to God's will/purpose.

God Bless,

So Jesus isn't a God now? This is all so confusing.

Jesus Christ was born of Mary, he was human during his physical life but he had his mind fully at one with God (atoned) for the entirety of his physical life; he lived a life without sin, therefore he overcame death by his sacrifice (punishment for sin is death).

After 3 days and 3 nights dead and in the tomb (no life in him) God Almighty resurrected His son Jesus Christ from the dead, giving him a body without corruption and giving him the name "Elohim" as a member of God's eternal family.

Presently Jesus Christ is a member of Elohim (the God Family) the oldest son, the first of the first-fruits; he will eternally exist on into the future, but he did not eternally exist in the past.

He "made the way" for all those born of men to become Elohim over time, just as our oldest brother Jesus Christ. But being a son in the Family of God does not make you God!!!

There is ONE GOD. THE FATHER.

The purpose for all of physical existence is for God to bring "many sons to glory" just as He has already done with the first born Jesus Christ. It is the reason you exist and in time all of this will be made very simple to understand.

God Bless,

a reply to: ElohimJD

The Son was Elohim long before His incarnation as a Man. He was the one who spoke to Joshua before the battle at Jericho.

The creator God the Father and the son of the creator God ,Yahoshua are not “infinite” numbers.Yahoshua clearly stated the father and I are “1” however they are not “literally” the number 1 like Sesame Street numbers.The number "1" is a metaphor for being the “singularity” that all things are born of and through.The son is the seed of the Father that “proceeds “ from the Father.The “life”(spirit) of the Father is in the son/seed.Unless a seed dies it cannot produce much fruit(more life).That is the process not some religious theology of a human blood sacrifice and an ephemeral "spirit being" that is God.Those are the vain imagination (and perversions) of the doctrines of men.

However the math metaphor is there and is signified by Yahoshua and the Father are “1” in the most significant ratio known as the Golden Ratio…. Phi=1:618….and phi=1:0.618….

Phi/phi are called irrational numbers (like Pi) because they never resolve.Phi and phi are also reciprocals and the only numbers when divided into “1”equal each other.For example Phi and phi to 15 digits divided into 1

1÷1.618033988749895=0.618033988749895
1÷0.618033988749895=1.618033988749895

“this” Phi is calculated by this equation

√5+1÷2=1.618033988749895
or
2.23606797749979+1=3.23606797749979
3.23606797749979÷2=1.618033988749895

That is only one “phrase progress” stage of Phi.The progression of Phi and phi are calculated by the Fibonacci number (Fn) sequence.
1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233…….to infinity

For example:

Fn11÷Fn12=phi
Fn13÷Fn12=Phi
or
89÷144=0.618,055,555,555,555,……
233÷144=1.618,055,555,555,555,…….

Fn36÷Fn37=phi
Fn38÷Fn37=Phi
or
14930352 ÷24157817=0.618,033,988,749,895….
39088169÷24157817=1.618,033,988,749,895…..

Notice how phi and Phi grow closer to being rounded off to 0.618 and 1.618……however they never will…they go on and on to infinity.This is the perfect example of the relationship (ratio) of man (creation) to the creator God in the perfect language of math because everything is being created through math.

The doctrine of the trinity is a man made doctrine of religion.The Holy spirit is the “life” of the creator God that is “summed” in both the Father and son who are “1”.Mans current progression in “life” in the physical universe is….

Fn3÷Fn4=0.666…..
or
2÷3=0.666…..

As Freddy Mercury sang in Bohemian Rhapsody…“Momma life has just begun….”. and as John was told …666 is the number of the beast of man.The 1st stabilized phase progression of phi/Phi is with Fn12=144 as the divisor.(144 =first fruits)

Fn11÷Fn12=phi
Fn13÷Fn12=Phi
or
89÷144=0.618,055,555,555,555,……
233÷144=1.618,055,555,555,555,……

The creator God creates and grows everything through math.The most significant equation sums to an irrational number.The irony and perfection of it all….the numbers don’t lie.

a reply to: Rex282

The creator God the Father and the son of the creator God ,Yahoshua are not “infinite” numbers.

I never said they were numbers.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
I saw from another thread about christ dying for our sins to be forgiven - however, I have trouble with that whole concept for a number of reasons....It doesn't take an Einstein to realise that it is obviously convenient to have us all obeying the 10 commandments... Can we make sense of why he chose to die... [We] don't like to think about the fact he was going against his father's commandment himself? Should we feel guilty?

People are made to feel guilty.

That is why the title of this tread made it to the front page for a brief 2 seconds.

People are made to feel guilty by "the Church" (and religion in general).
As I see it, the Bible and Christian dogma in general, has this effect.

I consider all such dogma to be False Authority.
I, for one, do not labor under their guilt.
In my view, such guilt is death.

It is strange, however, because Jesus can to free men from both sin and guilt (i.e., death).

Having read this entire thread, I didn't see anyone address the Biblical doctrine of the New Covenant. Understanding the what the New Covenant is, and what it is not, is important. Sadly, this Biblical doctrine is not often taught. Simply stated, Jesus died to establish a New Covenant in his blood. This New Covenant replaced the Old, and that means the Ten Commandments (the Hebrew LAW "of Moses") is no longer in effect. Jesus died for the sins (transgressions against THE LAW) for all people, and for all time.

Read the book of Hebrews and you see the doctrine of the New Covenant was the very first Christian theology. Paul took it and ran with it, but he added his own opinions to the mix. Now people read Paul and accept this opinion as if it were the very WORDS of God. No, Paul was a man. His opinions and suggestions are that of a man, not the Living God Most High. Some say he wrote the book of Hebrews, I think we was merely a consultant who later took all the credit, but that be as it may. In any case, without understanding the New Covenant and what it means, the death of Jesus is just a guilt trip. However, with the right understanding (again, see Hebrews) one can see freedom and liberty where others only see guilt and death.

The gospel of God's Kingdom was misunderstood by Jesus very own disciples, so it ought to be no surprise that even those who claim Jesus name today still get it wrong. When the leaders at Jerusalem debate Paul over circumcision they got it wrong, and in that case Paul had to school even those who walked with Jesus. Again, so-called "disciples" or "Christians" today are still getting the whole gospel message twisted, making the Church some moral authority in the affairs of men.

The Ten Commandments (Church-sham and Bible-based guilt) is all False Authority, plain and simple.

The Kingdom is within you.

a reply to: Akragon

A little late to the party here but the Trinity is definitely a sham, but not fully.

It's Father, Mother, and Son not Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit IS the Father, they replaced Mother with another word for the Father in order to silence women (the Mother) in the church, which is why Paul (the dragon who swept 1/3 of the stars from the sky) tells women to not speak in the church. It effectively cuts believers off from their true place in God's kingdom (the universe), it removes 1/3 of the true Trinity from the thoughts of believers just like the dragon.

The Father is the (Holy) Spirit, the Mother is the body (Earth), and the Son is the union or "marriage" (two becoming one flesh) of the Earth and the Spirit. We are that union, we are the Son or image of God, both Spirit and body.

The Spirit is not the Earth and neither the Spirit nor the Earth are the Son, but when they meet in the middle the Son is created which is neither one or the other (Father or Mother) but both. All are parts of God though, they are the three aspects that become one God, though they are all unique in their own rights.

Just as a leaf is not a branch and a branch is not a trunk and a trunk is not a leaf but all three together form a tree, the Mother is not the Father and the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Mother but all three form God. This is my understanding of the Trinity. All good lies have a foundation of truth, we should not forget that.

In my opinion, Jesus Christ did not die upon the cross.

He was taken down from the cross (either by bribing the Romans or a genuine, albeit incorrect assumption that he was indeed dead) and taken to the tomb where he was treated and recovered, hence his reappearance with wounds still present.

From what I understand, Jesus was upon the cross for a maximum of 9 hours. Most crucifixions related in death after a couple days, with some people lasting over a week.
For those that do not know, the way you die on the cross is through asphyxiation and generally requires the legs to be broken to speed up the process. The wounds suffered in the crucifixion itself are not bad enough to cause death on their own right.

The piercing of Jesus with a spear is only mentioned by one of the Apostles in its originality, where blood and water came out of his body (indicating that he was dead). Quite an observation considering it is speculated that none of the disciples came close to the location of Crucifixion out of fear.

What happened to Jesus after he left the tomb?

I would like to think that he is the one in the tomb in Kashmir, however we will never really know.

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: wasaka

No, Jesus himself taught that the 10 Commandments are still in effect. He did not come to replace them but to fulfill them. He said they would not pass away until the end of time.

We are still to uphold them, and we will be forgiven and reconciled to God through Grace.

a reply to: Collateral

From what I understand, Jesus was upon the cross for a maximum of 9 hours. Most crucifixions related in death after a couple days, with some people lasting over a week.
For those that do not know, the way you die on the cross is through asphyxiation and generally requires the legs to be broken to speed up the process. The wounds suffered in the crucifixion itself are not bad enough to cause death on their own right.

EXACTLY!!!
That is my understanding as well.

a reply to: Collateral

The piercing of Jesus with a spear is only mentioned by one of the Apostles in its originality, where blood and water came out of his body (indicating that he was dead). Quite an observation considering it is speculated that none of the disciples came close to the location of Crucifixion out of fear.

Huh? Jesus spoke to John at the foot of the cross when he was standing beside Mary.

a reply to: Collateral

The piercing of Jesus with a spear is only mentioned by one of the Apostles in its originality, where blood and water came out of his body (indicating that he was dead)

...
indicating that he had a pleural effusion (build up of liquid in his chest cavity/lung lining due to trauma). NOT that he was 'stabbed through the heart'.
These 'apologists' like to frame it as though being 'pierced directly through the heart' was the ONLY WAY that "water and blood" could have been released from the stabbing site.

It's not true -
my husband had a broken rib and pneumonia - which led to a pleural effusion. He was hospitalized for 11 days. I WATCHED for all of those days as the fluids were DRAINED out of his chest via a tube.
WATER AND BLOOD. LITERS of it. He lived.

He survived.

a reply to: ketsuko

We are still to uphold them, and we will be forgiven and reconciled to God through Grace.

.........
according to......

the bible?
your preacher?
your interpretation?
your opinion?

lol

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Specimen

Where the fault line is exposed is that Christ deliberately followed a path, that of the jewish messiah, prophesied throughout the old testament in the bible, which he knew went against his father's commandment were he to be crucified. He knew the stakes he was playing for so should we feel guilty for something he decided upon, which is the point religion uses to try to make us feel guilty over. "You're all Sinners" the reverent Paisley use to throw out at his audience, but are we for the reason the dogma states?

After reading the Unvarnished Gospels, that was precisely my take on it as well.

Huh? Jesus spoke to John at the foot of the cross when he was standing beside Mary.

Really? Because the evidence seems to indicate otherwise.

originally posted by: Collateral

Huh? Jesus spoke to John at the foot of the cross when he was standing beside Mary.

Really? Because the evidence seems to indicate otherwise.

See: John 19:26-27

a reply to: NOTurTypical

That would be fine, if any of the Gospels were considered reliable account of History that didn't contradict each other.

What you are referencing is a heavily edited, often poorly translated, politically motivated & a copy of a copied, copied, copied copy. Hardly a trustworthy source of evidence.