Did Christ Die deliberately to make us feel Guilty?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shiloh7

Jesus was a local Jewish cult leader who preached a form of Judaism that the local rabbis didn't like. He caused unrest among the Jewish community and was deemed a criminal by the state because of the unrest and was then executed.

Actually, He claimed to be God and the High Priest tore his robe and condemned Him for blasphemy.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

That's a hesaid, shesaid claim. I was just giving the basic outline as to what made Jesus get executed. For all we know Jesus said nothing of the sort and the High Priest was just slandering him. It's not like we have any court documents of Jesus' trial or anything.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shiloh7

Jesus was a local Jewish cult leader who preached a form of Judaism that the local rabbis didn't like. He caused unrest among the Jewish community and was deemed a criminal by the state because of the unrest and was then executed.

Actually, He claimed to be God and the High Priest tore his robe and condemned Him for blasphemy.

C'mon man

You know that simply isn't true...

a reply to: Shiloh7

It's a story and nothing more. There's not an iota of contemporaneous documentation (ie. historical evidence) proving that it ever happened.

originally posted by: booyakasha
a reply to: xstealth

actually the bible is a symbolic astrological book written by man at least one hundred years after Jesus supposedly lived. Its been edited hundreds of times by tyrants and kings and rulers bent on keeping the masses spiritually ignorant in order to march the sleeping masses to war.

How come Jesus never wrote anything at all? All we get is stories from people that lived way after Jesus' death. Because its a symbolic story of the stars and consciousness that tells far more than some BS history.

Jeremiah 5:21 'Now hear this, O foolish and senseless people, Who have eyes but do not see; Who have ears but do not hear.

Those who have eyes but do not see the symbolism, those with ears but do not hear the symbolism...

No, it's not an astrological book. It's a book of human history.

And it hasn't been edited hundreds of times by kings and tyrants, we have 1600 year old manuscripts that say the exact same things as today. We even have manuscripts from 600 BC, that are the same as today. You can read about them here: en.wikipedia.org...

It sounds like you've been listening to someone who embraces these sun theories, at large they don't read the Bible and don't understand the meanings of simple verses.

Deny ignorance.

a reply to: xstealth

LoL all your claims are totally and EASILY disproved.

Too bad the evil ones in control use your book and religion to control the world and yet you think some outsiders are attacking and trying to infiltrate.

Keep telling yourself the Jews are scrambled by God and don't agree with you cause Satan tricked them.

And by all means truck on in the good feeling that you have, from believing.

If those manuscripts were totally re-translated PROPERLY, from the old languages today, in front of peer reviewing, they would tell a far different tale, already even the CHRISTIANS have been involved in translating the texts and slowly changing the knowledge about what is going on,

But instead of REALLY passing this on, they keep going back to the King James Version which spawned every other of the thousands of bibles out there now.

Get rid of them all, and find God for yourself, but no, you wont do that you would rather believe that everything here is going exactly how it would and should be, according to your SCRIPT- TURES.

Nice sing-song up and down all around stories that got you going in thousands of different directions, and LOVING IT.

originally posted by: xstealth

No, it's not an astrological book. It's a book of human history.

History of what? There's not an iota of historical evidence for the existence of the major characters in the Bible.

a reply to: booyakasha

We were at that stage before the Nag Hammadi scrolls were dug up. Fortunately we have from them gospels from several of the actual apostles, Thomas, Philip and a bit from both Mary and Jesus himself I seem to remember.

You are so right though about the fact that most of what was written was then rewritten by the scribes, council of nice and even in islam it was not written up until some time later after the events - and we all know from personal experience how much the world moves on within a year, let alone 30, 100, or say 300 years etc.

There is in my mind no doubt about it that it works simply because its taught to kids during their formative years so they don't naturally question it, its information they mentally accept. Its only recently I imagine with my generation that we have had not only the chance to look at other religions and visit foreign countries such as India and Japan etc but we have, despite early christens trying to obliterate any past records by the burning of libraries such as the one at Alexandria, we now have the time and internet to research religion and its beginnings. What surprises me though is, given everyones knowledge that they will die sometime unknown to them normally; that they are not more interested inb what will happen then - perhaps its simply easier to accept religions idea of 77 virgins with a spiritual body and nothing whatsoever for the women, a heaven and hell or reincarnation.

It still botherrs me about the basics such as Chjrist electing to follow prophesy to get noticed as the new messiah and then get himself killed and ready to rise up again on the third day.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I suspect the real reason the pharisees wanted him gone was because of his behaviour in the Temple grounds whenb he upset the money grabbers who sold offerings to the poor. It must have been a huge amount of income that he had brought to the attention of the Sadducees and Head Priest, which they also obviously knew about but were turning a blind eye to the profiteering from the poor.

He supposedly said he was not here to change the law but to make people observe the law - but if you are intent on following God'r law you don't incite people to disobey it by crucifying you till you are dead - thou shalt not kill - so why did he do it? (of course if we accept the biblical version and overlook the possibility that most of what was written was made up).

Yes the whiny bitch did it for his 15 minutes of fame...
Sorry I had to, the devil made me... Or I am possesed by demons...
Just one serious question, why are we so fixed on Jesus? Why do we declare him God or the Son of, when he was just a normal dude and revolutionist? Not closer to God than Moses, or Einstein? Or the lucky dude finding penicillin...
Is this not maybe something we should overcome in order to grow up? I mean humans, yeahi we're awesome and don't need any "special" input to do extraordinary things sometimes. Maybe we should see what religion really was, the promise that there will be some better place when we shut up and work hard enough during our livetime. Doesn't exactly sound like something Jesus would have said...

a reply to: Peeple

You forgot the all-important collection plate.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Moses we know is not the originator of the 10 commandments through God. They appear to come from the Egyptian Goddess Ma'at, Chapter 125 of the Book of the Dead. She listed 42 principlals which made interesting reading and basically are sound common sense for everyone living within a society to follow with their pantheon of Gods - which mean the 10 commandments are basically brought forward from the Pagan beliefs into the desert religions - which shouldn[t surprise us given that Moses was an egyptian. The only reference to man's relationship with his then God/s was that "I have never cursed God". There is nothing until you get to judiasm about I am a jealous God and You won't have any other Gods or take nme in vain blah blah blah - that appears to have been moses and the priesthood's agenda to separate their people from all others and to make a nation of themselves.

When you read the principals given by Ma'at they are quite nice and actually go far deeper into people's behaviour than the blatant orders that are and were expected to be obeyed in the 10 C's - hence my question making someone kill you would Jesus have taken that step knowing, it would not be God's will, that he was teaching with his being a rabbi.

a reply to: Shiloh7

That would be my guess as well. Nothing gets you on someone's bad side quicker than stifling someone's income. Upset the money lenders who had the Jewish leaders' ear and you upset the Jewish community.

a reply to: xstealth

No, it's not an astrological book. It's a book of human history.

No, it's not a book of human history. It's myth and fiction, with a whole lot of propaganda mixed in.
Israeli Founder Contests Founding Myths
January 3, 2015

The Torah (or Old Testament) is a master work of literature and faith, but it tells many mythological tales that have little or no basis in real history, as Uri Avnery, one of Israel’s founders, has had the courage to declare, with an introduction from retired U.S. diplomat William R. Polk.

This is one of the FOUNDERS of modern-day Israel.

Even if one would like to believe that the Bible only exaggerates real events, the fact is that not even a tiny mention of the exodus, the conquest of Canaan or King David has been found. They just did not happen.

Is this important? Yes and no. The Bible is not real history. It is a monumental religious and literary document, that has inspired untold millions throughout the centuries. It has formed the minds of many generations of Jews, Christians and Muslims.

But history is something else. History tells us what really happened. Archeology is a tool of history, an invaluable tool for the understanding of what took place. These are two different disciplines, and never the twain shall meet.

Sorry to rain on your parade. None of it happened.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Moses we know is not the originator of the 10 commandments through God. They appear to come from the Egyptian Goddess Ma'at, Chapter 125 of the Book of the Dead. She listed 42 principlals which made interesting reading and basically are sound common sense for everyone living within a society to follow with their pantheon of Gods - which mean the 10 commandments are basically brought forward from the Pagan beliefs into the desert religions - which shouldn[t surprise us given that Moses was an egyptian. The only reference to man's relationship with his then God/s was that "I have never cursed God". There is nothing until you get to judiasm about I am a jealous God and You won't have any other Gods or take nme in vain blah blah blah - that appears to have been moses and the priesthood's agenda to separate their people from all others and to make a nation of themselves.

When you read the principals given by Ma'at they are quite nice and actually go far deeper into people's behaviour than the blatant orders that are and were expected to be obeyed in the 10 C's - hence my question making someone kill you would Jesus have taken that step knowing, it would not be God's will, that he was teaching with his being a rabbi.

Where, in the Egyptian Book of the Dead do you find the commandment to worship only one God? Please quote the commandment. Without that, the link is extremely weak.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Yeah I think people are afraid to read things that disagree with what they've been indoctrinated to believe. You tell people the same lie enough they eventually start to believe it, especially as a little kid.

Add that to the fear of going to hell if you deny your teachings. Then you got your whole community that you were raised in, friends, family, neighbors... You have to tell them your a non believer and a lot of times those communities look down on you, or even kick you out after that.

I was raised Catholic, luckily i saw through the BS at an early age, and didn't care what my friends and family thought of me. My parents are no longer religious and my most of my friends understand that Islam, Christianity, and Judiasm are symbolic stories about astrology.

I'm telling ya, come to the light my friends. Organized religion is all about dividing and separating people. Learn astral projection, learn meditation, learn how to expand your mind. Drop the beliefs placed on you by greedy business men!

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shiloh7

Jesus was a local Jewish cult leader who preached a form of Judaism that the local rabbis didn't like. He caused unrest among the Jewish community and was deemed a criminal by the state because of the unrest and was then executed.

Actually, He claimed to be God and the High Priest tore his robe and condemned Him for blasphemy.

C'mon man

You know that simply isn't true...

It's exactly true. Read the gospel account of the trial before the High Priest in the Sanhedrin.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NOTurTypical

That's a hesaid, shesaid claim. I was just giving the basic outline as to what made Jesus get executed. For all we know Jesus said nothing of the sort and the High Priest was just slandering him. It's not like we have any court documents of Jesus' trial or anything.

By that logic then we can not accept anything from history whatsoever. It's all nonsense then correct?

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NOTurTypical

That's a hesaid, shesaid claim. I was just giving the basic outline as to what made Jesus get executed. For all we know Jesus said nothing of the sort and the High Priest was just slandering him. It's not like we have any court documents of Jesus' trial or anything.

By that logic then we can not accept anything from history whatsoever. It's all nonsense then correct?

I get tired of rebutting this poor rebuttal all the time. It is just such a poor analogy to make that it gets tiring repeating why it's wrong all the time.

First off, there is plenty of objective evidence to corroborate many historical accounts in the history books. Second off, many times multiple sources from many different viewpoints also work to corroborate a historical claim. Third off, I never said that history is 100% accurate. Naturally, since the winners write history, most of it is flawed. That is why you try to get as many sources as possible to line up and agree as well as make sure the sources are credible (the tales in the bible have neither of these criteria met).

None of this takes away from the fact that the ONLY source that talks about this trial is the bible. There an NO other sources to cross reference to get a feel for how the trial went down. Add on that the bible is full of mythological nonsense and it makes the source even less trustworthy (even if it is talking about non-supernatural events). Maybe if you had a better source for the trial than a book that right after the passage about the trial it talks about how a man rose from the dead, I'd be more apt to trust it.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shiloh7

Jesus was a local Jewish cult leader who preached a form of Judaism that the local rabbis didn't like. He caused unrest among the Jewish community and was deemed a criminal by the state because of the unrest and was then executed.

Actually, He claimed to be God and the High Priest tore his robe and condemned Him for blasphemy.

C'mon man

You know that simply isn't true...

It's exactly true. Read the gospel account of the trial before the High Priest in the Sanhedrin.

As if I haven't read them??

You know just as well as I do it is NOT true... He was asked if he was the Christ...

That equates to the son of God as he said... There is no place in the gospels that he claims to be God and you know it...

And saying I AM is not a claim of being God any more then calling himself the son of God is...