The God is Real Thread

a reply to: nenothtu

Well it just seemed strange that you have about 100-200 people crammed into an ampitheare to see a 4/5 foot statue of the virgin mary. Its beneth those two dots. Strange thing is that the place didnt have a ceiling

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: nenothtu

Those things CAN be seen. Bears and viruses have bodies. They're real. Demons are not.

Anything that cannot be seen, for whatever reason, is for all practical purposes invisible. That's the first lesson in "Ninja secrets of invisibility". Bears cannot be seen in the dark. You may just have to trust me on that, unless you have encountered a bear in the dark - in which case you will be aware of the reality of it. Viruses likewise - they are really, really tiny - I have never seen one, but have no reason to doubt their existence.

So, just to recap and confirm - you believe that anything you have never seen is not real, right?

"Demons" exist in the "spiritual" realm,

How confusing - if they aren't real, how can they exist ANYWHERE?

and, in your own words, can't be 2 places at once.

Correct.

Hate is an emotion. It can't hurt you. How you use it though, can be a weapon, even against yourself. Have you ever felt the recoil of your own hate?

No.

That is the spirit of Hate that YOU created.

I guess I'm not very good at creating spirits, then. Shrug.

Whatever it is that haunts us, the ONLY way to truly defeat it is to accept it for what it is, embrace it, and love it. "Love tames the beast."

Hmmm. Kinda like loving a stray cat and feeding it to make it go away... so if something is "haunting" you, your solution is to love it into leaving? Not sure how that would work.

Me: So you believe you have the power to create spirits?

You: You betcha!

Ooookaaaay then... are there any churches or altars to you or anything like that which people can go to light candles at then? Clearly, you are worthy of worship if you can create spirits! That's like, Godhood 101!

a reply to: nenothtu

Tell me, does God hate anyone? In either case, why?

God has better things to do than hate. Hate is borne of resentment for some perceived offense. If God is patient then nothing can upset him, imo.

Both of these cannot be true, just by simple logic. One may be, or neither may be, but both cannot be.

Either your soul may be "in the spirit realm", or "in there", or neither, but it can't be in two places at once.

You may note that I didn't mention a "spirit realm" at all - I responded to your original statement, about a "conduit to heaven" - but I never mentioned a "spirit realm".

This physical self is temporary, its not the "real" world. The (spirit realm) is. We can't perceive it with our physical senses (that look outwards) but it is all around us. And in us. We are spirit temporarily held here in this phase of our development. Thats the "inside" part, inside your body.

The boundaries are blurred because we are dependent on the material, some more than others. The key is to establish a connection with the spirit, our "true" self. Thats not easy. We have spent a lifetime learning to depend on our senses and seek fulfillment through them by seeking the world outside us. Especially in the modern world. Distraction abounds.

When they say the Kingdom is within, they mean the real you inside your physical being. Our bodies are dust, right? The spirit is eternal and for most buried under a lifetime of learned behavior.

But you already know this.

The antenna to heaven part is reaching out from within through our soul, desiring to be shown the right thing to do in the moment when faced with choices. Then choosing to act upon that "wisdom". Or not.

I'm sorry I'm not doing such a good job of answering your question, its not something that can be described easily. How do we discern color if we're both blind?

a reply to: nenothtu

At one point she was told that she would never be able to walk again, and even after she WAS walking again, was warned that she might lose that ability at any instant.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think I would believe what has happened here had I not seen it with my own eyes.

Thank you for explaining the nature of her malady. I was unaware of it. That is, indeed, a remarkable and extraordinary transformation. I hope she remains free of that pain for the rest of her life.

a reply to: nenothtu

Must be something like that "conduit to heaven" in your cosmology. Your conduit is apparently a telephone.

I said like a telephone. When you make a call you talk to someone "removed". They might be in the room or halfway around the world when you call them.

I missed the part where I said anyone WAS the Kingdom, but it is definitely within some people. Just as definitely, it is not within ALL people.

Using the phone analogy, calling someone up and talking to them does not mean they are in you. They are reaching your mind with words through a 'device'. You called them and they are "in you" so to speak, but 'really' they are not "in" you.

a reply to: nenothtu

Not possible. if that were the case, if I were to be able to order God what to do, then my worshipping It would be bass backwards - It would have to be worshipping ME, as I would be the more powerful one.

"prayer" is not "talking"… do you talk in class?

Even when our mouths are shut our mind is still running. Prayer is not "running" your mouth or your mind.

Quiet in the classroom.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
Biblical knowledge is coming in like a flood, and cannot be explained.

Today is an auspicious day.

This immediately came to mind after reading your testimony.

If you want to soak up more. Look no further.

Master Library

a reply to: nenothtu

Anything that cannot be seen, for whatever reason, is for all practical purposes invisible. That's the first lesson in "Ninja secrets of invisibility". Bears cannot be seen in the dark. You may just have to trust me on that, unless you have encountered a bear in the dark - in which case you will be aware of the reality of it. Viruses likewise - they are really, really tiny - I have never seen one, but have no reason to doubt their existence.

Atoms are really tiny, but they exist in the psychical universe. We may not understand them, or how they work, but they have no animosity toward you. They aren't demons. Neither are bears or viruses.

Thoughts don't exist in the physical universe. They live in the mind of their creator. Thoughts can take on a life of their own , and run amok in one's mind.

Have you ever felt the recoil of your own hate?


No.

It's a mechanism of empathy. I guess some people don't have any.

Hmmm. Kinda like loving a stray cat and feeding it to make it go away... so if something is "haunting" you, your solution is to love it into leaving? Not sure how that would work.

If you consider embracing and loving the splintered, self hated and neglected part of one's self that is causing pain and grief akin "taking in a stray animal" then so be it.

Ooookaaaay then... are there any churches or altars to you or anything like that which people can go to light candles at then? Clearly, you are worthy of worship if you can create spirits! That's like, Godhood 101!

No it's not. It's called taking responsibility for and embracing one's own problems. I don't have the victim mentality that has me innocently walking around in fear of being mugged by invisible disassociated demonic entities.

a reply to: intrptr

Fair enough, Enjoy your religion.

The very first response told me whether I needed to involve myself in it or not, and the answer was not - it places external constraints on deity.

The rest, while fascinating, was indiscernible from what I know of Gnosticism, which I have already tested and rejected. That's not to say it isn't proper for you, just that it isn't for me.

We all have our own paths to walk.

originally posted by: hitandrun
a reply to: OpinionatedB

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
Biblical knowledge is coming in like a flood, and cannot be explained.

Today is an auspicious day.

This immediately came to mind after reading your testimony.

If you want to soak up more. Look no further.

Master Library

Knowledge comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

a reply to: intrptr

This is not meant to be offensive, just an explanation.

That's a good example of why Gnosticism is not for me. It's just too mutable. Rather than finding a fit for beliefs within a framework, and changing the beliefs to fit where necessary, it starts with belief, then changes the framework to fit where necessary, and AS necessary.

It's just too close to "situational ethics" for my taste. If it works for you, then good on ya!

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nenothtu

Not possible. if that were the case, if I were to be able to order God what to do, then my worshipping It would be bass backwards - It would have to be worshipping ME, as I would be the more powerful one.

"prayer" is not "talking"… do you talk in class?

Of course I do, Every chance I get. How am I to ask the Teacher anything in any other way? How else would I learn anything?

Even when our mouths are shut our mind is still running. Prayer is not "running" your mouth or your mind.

Quiet in the classroom.

If that works for you, more power to ya,

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nenothtu

Not possible. if that were the case, if I were to be able to order God what to do, then my worshipping It would be bass backwards - It would have to be worshipping ME, as I would be the more powerful one.

"prayer" is not "talking"… do you talk in class?

Of course I do, Every chance I get. How am I to ask the Teacher anything in any other way? How else would I learn anything?

Even when our mouths are shut our mind is still running. Prayer is not "running" your mouth or your mind.

Quiet in the classroom.

If that works for you, more power to ya,

I speak out loud to God, and often. Does God not like us talking to Him? If God does not like that, then I am in BIIIIIG trouble.

Meh, people have their own ideas about praying. Some out loud, some not so much, but the most important thing is if we are communicating in some way.

After all, how does a loved one know you love them if you never tell them nor indicate by your actions?

a reply to: nenothtu

I hate labels. You keep using the word, Gnostic. So I googled it.

Word Origin and History for gnostic Expand
Gnostic
n.
1580s, "believer in a mystical religious doctrine of spiritual knowledge," from Late Latin Gnosticus, from Late Greek Gnostikos, noun use of adj. gnostikos "knowing, able to discern," from gnostos "knowable," from gignoskein "to learn, to come to know" (see know ). Applied to various early Christian sects that claimed direct personal knowledge beyond the Gospel or the Church hierarchy.

How is what you understand different from that? If you would… (in simplest terms)

a reply to: nenothtu

How am I to ask the Teacher anything in any other way? How else would I learn anything?

The teacher knows your needs. We learn by listening. Back to "be still and know". Like here. He is in their world but knows nothing about it. He brings his insolence and ignorance, quickly reprimanded…

In this world we think we know what is going on. What we don't realize is we know nothing except what we have been trained to understand in order to conform to it.

a reply to: hitandrun

Cute puzzle, but really, who has time for puzzles?

I've a friend that really likes that sort of thing (probably way too much time on his hands) and I'll pass it along to him.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nenothtu

How am I to ask the Teacher anything in any other way? How else would I learn anything?

The teacher knows your needs. We learn by listening. Back to "be still and know". Like here. He is in their world but knows nothing about it. He brings his insolence and ignorance, quickly reprimanded…

In this world we think we know what is going on. What we don't realize is we know nothing except what we have been trained to understand in order to conform to it.

And that is why He said "Ask of me and it shall be given".

Yes, He knows what you need, but He still says we are to ask.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: nenothtu

Atoms are really tiny, but they exist in the psychical universe. We may not understand them, or how they work, but they have no animosity toward you. They aren't demons. Neither are bears or viruses.

How can you be certain atoms exist in the physical universe? Have you seen one?

Bears or viruses bear no animosity towards me, either - they are just being themselves, bears and viruses, and act according to their own natures.

Thoughts don't exist in the physical universe. They live in the mind of their creator. Thoughts can take on a life of their own , and run amok in one's mind.

So, If I'm following you correctly, you believe that the entire "spiritual realm" is within your own head?

It's a mechanism of empathy. I guess some people don't have any.

Can't argue with that at all.

If you consider embracing and loving the splintered, self hated and neglected part of one's self that is causing pain and grief akin "taking in a stray animal" then so be it.

So, basically, the only "spirituality" you have or acknowledge is psychology? That's ok if it is - I once had a wife like that, a long time ago, and it served her pretty well financially. I'm not complaining here, just trying to get a grasp of where you're coming from.

That does explain why I have no pain nor grief pretty handily, however. There are evidently some splintered, self-hating, and neglected parts of me that are entirely missing. Nothing for me to take in, I guess.

No it's not. It's called taking responsibility for and embracing one's own problems. I don't have the victim mentality that has me innocently walking around in fear of being mugged by invisible disassociated demonic entities.

I stand corrected. That was my mistake. I thought when you referred to spiritual things, you were actually referring to spiritual things rather than psychology. I've had years and years of dealings with psychology (first wife again - that was her field) and have no further use for it.

Just so you'll know, it's now entirely impossible for me to walk around innocently (I'm way too old and seen way too much for that any more), and I've no fear at all of being mugged by demons, whatever their nature. It's been a very long time since I harbored any such fears, and the last time I did was right after I didn't, but should have.

a reply to: nenothtu

William Shakespeare said "There are more things, Horatio, in heaven and earth than are dream't of in your philosophy". The problem with some people is that they think they have seen all the natural world there is to see, but the natural isn't so natural.

Sure, we can see planets and stars, as long as they are reflected, but there are still billions unseen. Can we say that planets do not exist because we haven't seen them?

Even naturalist atheist scientist admit that we can never see all the planets, and yet they are still proposing that they are there, out there somewhere over the rainbow. And it is these guys who tell us God doesn't exist because we can't see Him, and yet they tell us there are planets we can't see. Well, if we can't see those other planets then saying there are is kind of hypocritical on their part.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nenothtu

I hate labels. You keep using the word, Gnostic. So I googled it.

Word Origin and History for gnostic Expand
Gnostic
n.
1580s, "believer in a mystical religious doctrine of spiritual knowledge," from Late Latin Gnosticus, from Late Greek Gnostikos, noun use of adj. gnostikos "knowing, able to discern," from gnostos "knowable," from gignoskein "to learn, to come to know" (see know ). Applied to various early Christian sects that claimed direct personal knowledge beyond the Gospel or the Church hierarchy.

How is what you understand different from that? If you would… (in simplest terms)

Gnosticism is quite a bit more involved than that simplistic definition, and there really isn't a simplest terms explanation of the differences. In simple terms that restrict themselves to that definition, I don't have any direct knowledge of the divinity that was not gained from It.

I don't "just know".