The God is Real Thread

a reply to: WarminIndy

I disliked Avatar because it is merely another modern retelling of the same old same old gnostic schtick

Yah, just a movie. I got news for you, Organized religion is the oldest "old schtick".

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: nenothtu

It's kinda like this. YOU are representative of the soul. You have a car, that takes you where you drive it, that's representative of the body. The bumper stickers, beaded seat covers, fuzzy dice hanging off the rear view mirror, the dingle berries hanging off the back decal laden window and the music playing the 8 track, are representative of your spirit.

Ok. You win. You entirely scrambled me up with that knotted up ball of yarn, and I'm back to square one of not being able to tell one from another in your cosmogony, so I give up on that. No further questions, your honor - the jury would never be able to figure out the answers anyhow, so asking questions is just moving air.

I don't know how to explain to you, or anyone, how I know the difference between remembering an event, watching or reading about an event or dreaming about an event. I just do, I think. Can anyone really be sure? Where does the subconscious end and waking consciousness begin? I don't know.

In my experience, if I dream about an event, I'm sleeping. If I read about an event, I open a book. If I watch a documentary about the even, a button is pushed to start video, and If I'm simply recalling the event, none of the above occurs... so for me it's pretty simple to sort them out. I can't imagine the indecisiveness and confusion involved when one can't be at least fairly sure of what they are doing, and my heart goes out to such folks.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: nenothtu

No I don't see the difference.

Well that's the problem right there then, isn't it?

It's easy to throw the baby out with the bath water - all you have to do is refuse to acknowledge the difference between them.

originally posted by: intrptr

I agree. Discredits every argument others bring and offers no alternative.

That's my whole point. If I am ABLE to discredit your argument, then you need to either beef that argument up, adjust it, or abandon it. Learn the dance - Windword does a great job of it!

Safe to argue from invulnerability.

Indeed it is, but it gets boring. Find my vulnerability. Make it interesting for me.

ETA: You know, you and I are diametrically opposed in nearly every aspect of existence, from politics to religion to probably even the proper method of skinning cats... and yet, even in that opposition, there are points of congruence. Think about that a couple minutes, but don't strain over it.

a reply to: nenothtu

In my experience, if I dream about an event, I'm sleeping. If I read about an event, I open a book. If I watch a documentary about the even, a button is pushed to start video, and If I'm simply recalling the event, none of the above occurs... so for me it's pretty simple to sort them out.

And yet, you read the words of someone posting on the internet and fell in love with that poster. Somewhere, your mental state and your emotional subconscious got intertwined and that exchange of the spirit working through the written word changed your life!

a reply to: nenothtu

ETA: You know, you and I are diametrically opposed in nearly every aspect of existence…

I'm not diametrically opposed to you, I am trying to reach you. Theres a difference.

Like you said though you don't vet your own beliefs, just challenge others.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: nenothtu

In my experience, if I dream about an event, I'm sleeping. If I read about an event, I open a book. If I watch a documentary about the even, a button is pushed to start video, and If I'm simply recalling the event, none of the above occurs... so for me it's pretty simple to sort them out.

And yet, you read the words of someone posting on the internet and fell in love with that poster. Somewhere, your mental state and your emotional subconscious got intertwined and that exchange of the spirit working through the written word changed your life!

True enough, although I would characterize it as my conscious emotional state rather than my subconscious one. I was aware that I was reading (and speaking - there were phone calls of an absurd length involved long before my boots ever hit ground on site), and was equally aware that I was not dreaming or watching a documentary.

Subsequent events pursuant to those verbal interactions got very real indeed!

There may or may not have been "spirit" involved - it depend on one's perception of what "spirit" is as to the actual operation of any spirit, if it were involved at all. I can say, without any reservation, that things got pretty spirited all the way around, however.

Maybe it was just a leap of faith with definite and concrete consequences?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nenothtu

ETA: You know, you and I are diametrically opposed in nearly every aspect of existence…

I'm not diametrically opposed to you, I am trying to reach you. Theres a difference.

I dunno, man - we're pretty much polar opposites, and whenever we DO agree on anything, another angel probably gets it's wings... but it does occasionally happen!

Like you said though you don't vet your own beliefs, just challenge others.

My beliefs have been challenged and vetted by myself (and incessantly challenged by innumerable others) numerous times over a great many years of searching. They have, upon occasion, even been upset, overturned, and discarded in favor of others that more closely fit the paradigm I find myself in (and my observations of how it's operating), much like those of the OP. I'd say she's had a pretty radical revision lately, all things considered.

I honestly don't know WHY I challenge the beliefs of others. What anyone else believes has no effect on my own at all, so it's neither helping nor hindering myself, and I don't carry any expectation of changing theirs, or any desire to do so. I do think that everyone should know WHY the believe what they do, regardless of what that belief is, so I suppose that probably has a bearing on it. I don't care to change their beliefs, but think they ought to challenge their own and revise if necessary (not conform to mine, per se, but strengthen their own if necessary - only they know if it is), just as I've had to do.

We're all seeking "truth", and should be as firm in that as we possibly can, but your "truth" may not present itself to you in the same way mine does to me, and that's ok, too. It's yours, not mine.

The real tragedy is just settling on a belief that betrays you in the end, because you were too fearful to challenge it and find it's strengths and weaknesses. Who knows? I may even just be challenging others to try and find holes in my own!

The ONE person whose beliefs I've studiously avoided challenging has been the OP's, because 1) I made a promise not to, and 2) she had to find her own path without any "help" or prodding. On top of that, I'd already been where she was, and "helping" would have given unfair advantage in her own pursuit of her "truth", and potentially contaminated that search. How she arrived where she has I haven't a clue, unless it was, as she states, some operation of "spirit".

a reply to: nenothtu

The door creaked open just a skosh but has since closed shut…

You said:

That's a very interesting perspective. A very modern "everyone gets a trophy" perspective, but a very interesting one.

In here..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: intrptr

I'm sorry - I missed the point and/or relevance of that - could you perhaps elaborate and amplify it a bit more? I hate it when I miss something.

a reply to: nenothtu
You know I'm really sorry for you and you inability to comprehend. But stop trying to make it my issue.
You're being difficult on purpose . I'm not amused and you're getting on my last nerve. Stop. Don't answer my posts anymore. I won't be responding to you . I'm deleteing this thread from my myATS Page and I will ignore any post you make. God what a pain.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: nenothtu
You know I'm really sorry for you and you inability to comprehend.

Yeah, but it's us untutored and uncomprehending idjits of the world that keeps y'all intellectuals on yer toes.

God what a pain.

Not surprisingly, you're not the first intellectual to make that assessment.

a reply to: nenothtu

The ONE person whose beliefs I've studiously avoided challenging has been the OP's, because 1) I made a promise not to, and 2) she had to find her own path without any "help" or prodding. On top of that, I'd already been where she was, and "helping" would have given unfair advantage in her own pursuit of her "truth", and potentially contaminated that search. How she arrived where she has I haven't a clue, unless it was, as she states, some operation of "spirit".

A very wise and astute post - as I would expect from you.

I notice that alot around here. When presented with truth or logic, that smacks a person's worldview head on, they seem to regress to a childlike behavior, of calling a few names, taking their ball, and leaving in a huff.

That's ok though. A pebble has been dropped in their shoe. At some point, hopefully, they'll stop and pull it out.


a reply to: AutumnWitch657

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nenothtu

The door creaked open just a skosh but has since closed shut…

You said:

That's a very interesting perspective. A very modern "everyone gets a trophy" perspective, but a very interesting one.

In here..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm sorry - I missed the point and/or relevance of that - could you perhaps elaborate and amplify it a bit more? I hate it when I miss something.

Ahh, I'm not doing that anymore here, with you. If you have a specific question about my statement you found "interesting", I'll answer it.

Otherwise, see ya on the boards…

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nenothtu

The door creaked open just a skosh but has since closed shut…

You said:

That's a very interesting perspective. A very modern "everyone gets a trophy" perspective, but a very interesting one.

In here..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm sorry - I missed the point and/or relevance of that - could you perhaps elaborate and amplify it a bit more? I hate it when I miss something.

Ahh, I'm not doing that anymore here, with you. If you have a specific question about my statement you found "interesting", I'll answer it.

Otherwise, see ya on the boards…

Let me rephrase my question, then - how is that at all relevant? What sort of connection are you attempting to make between the two statements?

a reply to: nenothtu

Here is one you will like:



You have to listen to it til the end...