2 NYC officers dead in ambush-style shooting

a reply to: Shamrock6
This is the point I made about paying attention to the surrounding while working. The man didn't appear instantly out of air, he had to walk up.

It's OK, my point has been shown to be true.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Holy sh#t....
Something you and I agree on?

.....this is a sign of the end of days

(was going to post that in the other thread on this because I read your posts there too but since we were typing that same thing at the same time I'll just put it here...lol)

a reply to: roadgravel

Even if they saw him walking up, amongst a crowd of others (surely) what is the likelihood they are thinking "this guy is about to shoot us"? Doubtful, given MANY pedestrians casually stroll by them daily.

Not to mention, it only takes a split second to pull the heat out and take off a few heads at point blank. You wouldn't even have time to react if the shooter already had the heater in hand, or even close proximity to hand (and intent in mind).....it isn't the wild west hollywood style where one can draw and shoot at someone in a split second....take a sec to get a gun out of holster. Not so much to pull it out from under a shirt or from behind your back.

So cops trust people to be good while siting in a car but don't trust people and feel the need to be ready with deadly force when interacting with them.

I bet it was the general American work ethic.

a reply to: roadgravel

way to over-simplify things. NYPD cops sit in their cars with people walking by every day of the year. They can't jump out of their cruisers every time somebody walks by them. If it were me and somebody was walking up to my cruiser, yea I would be getting out of my car, IF I noticed them before they got to my door. But I live and work in an area that is as different from NYC as night and day.

To say that they should've seen this guy coming, and their failure to do so is suspect is being intentionally obtuse and ignorant.

originally posted by: Jakal26
a reply to: Shamrock6

Holy sh#t....
Something you and I agree on?

.....this is a sign of the end of days

(was going to post that in the other thread on this because I read your posts there too but since we were typing that same thing at the same time I'll just put it here...lol)

I won't tell anybody if you don't tell anybody....lol

a reply to: roadgravel

What should they do, sit in the car with their guns in hand?
Even then, if the guy had drawn down on them as he walked by, it would have been hard to get a shot off before he hit them.

It's irrational to think they can see everything all the time....especially in a city FULL of people. It can't be done.

a reply to: Shamrock6

The man opened a door and shot them and it appears they didn't know he was there - both shot in the back of the head.

You have an answer to anything that appears to be a short coming in police work. May you are not the best example of police work then?

a reply to: Shamrock6

I won't tell anybody if you don't tell anybody....lol

Well, the posts are there for all to see so I am sure that within a matter of days (if it takes that long) I will be deemed by some here to be a "cop apologist" or "sympathizer"...or hell, even "a cop"...lol

................
You know, sometimes I take an extreme stance here, but for the most part, I try to be objective and fair.
It just seems that some ALWAYS take extreme stances and are always on one side of the fence or the other, never even caring to breach the other side, if only to peer in and see what "the other side" has to say.
Though it might not seem like it sometimes here, I generally see both sides and try to call out those that are always "ftp" or "ISIS is fake" or whatever odd perceptions of the world they have....

To some, this is all but a game. To me, however, it is not and I don't come here to "entertain" myself.

................

Anyways, I am WAY off topic and starting to ramble, so....

Have a good day...

The cops declared war on the people some time ago so i personally have no sympathy. They have an us against them attitude and for people that are saying the two cops had nothing to do with various incidents around the country well by association they did have. If criminals are guilty by association then so are cops, the biggest gang in the land. The incident though plays right into the Elite's hands, they will be absolutely drooling over this. It is not the way to go, not by a long way. Maybe the start of some kind of civil war.

a reply to: roadgravel

You're starting to sound like those that claim crap like "Eric Garner died because he was fat and unhealthy"....
How is it any different to state that these two cops died because..."short comings in police work"?

Give me a break.

These guys were murdered by a guy with INTENT....thousands of people walk by, and dare I say brush by, their car every single damned day of the week. He was just another passer by until it was too late....At the very second he opened the door/started shooting, it was too late and even with gun in hand, they wouldn't have had a chance. He just got the one up on them...

...but you go ahead and blame them instead of the murderous idiot that killed them. That's very logical of you.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: Shamrock6

The man opened a door and shot them and it appears they didn't know he was there - both shot in the back of the head.

You have an answer to anything that appears to be a short coming in police work. May you are not the best example of police work then?

I literally lol'd at this man, thanks. Don't like what somebody has to say, may as well attack them personally and try to knock down their integrity, character, and so on. That way you can be "right" by default! I'll trot out the same tired old answer to the same tired old crap: read my posts, I've called officers out on poor tactics, poor decision making, bad judgement, blah blah blah. Tired old add on to tired old answer to tired old crap: but, as a cop hater, things like that are inconvenient to acknowledge so they just get ignored.

Where did you see that he opened their door? I haven't seen that he opened the door in any article I've read about it so far, or any of the news I watched this morning.

a reply to: JoeSignal

Terrible news for the cops and their families especially at this time of year..but let's face it, there's never going to be a good time of year to discover your loved ones have been executed is there..

Sympathy to their families and also to the families of the civilians that have been killed by elements within the Police force.

I will say this, although it will come as no consolation to the families and friends of anyone involved in this seriously out of control situation with Policing and general Police - Civilian relations, this criminal tragedy is a portent of escalating things to come...more innocent civilians will die, just as more innocent Police going about their jobs will die unless something drastic is done and soon.

THIS is the number one reason for the majority of good cops out there to have a 'ding ding ding' moment and come to the realisation that there is no longer room for the bad, the corrupt and the outright out of control among their ranks.

Where before good cops would reason 'that's just how it is, or 'there is always going to some bad with the majority of good' quasi-philosophical approach, this is going to have to change to a zero acceptance approach from the Police.

Not zero tolerance to everything of course, but certainly a zero tolerance to the corrupt and twisted that have slipped among their ranks, if there's a bad cop they must be rooted out and got well rid of and fast.

That is the only route back from the precipice of anarchy in the USA, if the Police continue to tacitly accept terrible behaviour from fellow Police officers, they will bear the brunt of the backlash, not only as we see here, with the execution of two of their number, but with increasing and exponential anarchy and degradation of society as a whole.

Nobody likes rules and laws very much, but most of understand they are a necessary measure for our protection and accept them as part and parcel of a thriving and healthy society...when those that are tasked with seeing that those rules and laws are followed and detecting and apprehending those among us that refuse to obey them are themselves not following or are outright completely ignoring the law...that's is when the system breaks down and the result is what we see here.

The outing and punishment of bad and out of control cops is essential to a flourishing democracy and a contented populace..if that doesn't happen, there will be hell to pay.

Cops can do no wrong. There's your LOL. Some of us live in the real world. An internet cop sets it straight, whoo who.

It is my belief that a noble spirit/energy resides in every human being. It is a shame that a great many of us expend it to be ugly to one another. We are ALL brothers and sisters and it is my fondest hope that we will all come to that realization one day. My heart goes out to these officer's families. They did not deserve this.

a reply to: JoeSignal

Two lawmen, gunned down in cold blood, in NYC.
And as if that isn't heartbreak enough?



People are defending it?
That's pretty messed up.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Cops can do no wrong. There's your LOL. Some of us live in the real world. An internet cop sets it straight, whoo who.

I'm sorry that I've upset you so much with my disagreeing that something is fishy because a guy managed to walk up on two cops in New York City and kill them. Upset you so much that you now have to resort to nothing but personal attacks and petty, ignorant comments.

You've proved my point though, about how hard it is for some on here to look at things as a whole (ie, my lack of defending every single action by every single cop, but instead calling bad cops out for bad deeds) and be intentionally ignorant and dense.

The young son of Rafael Ramos wrote:

originally posted by: Jakal26
It's irrational to think they can see everything all the time....especially in a city FULL of people. It can't be done.

Yet, their job is to be observant.

I see roadgravel's point clearly.

Also, since this whole thing started police should be on alert at all times. Heck, if people were calling for my death, I'd make sure I had eyes on the back of my head.

a reply to: Shamrock6

You seem to defend every action of cops, that's fine, you are an internet cop. An intelligent person in that line of police work would see the writing on the wall. It's obvious these two in NY didn't. The boys in blue are creating this situation.

But believe what you want, it doesn't change it.

I'll leave you the patrol the net.