Wild horses to be sold and slaughtered!!!

I've not noticed any shortage of other meats in the grocery store, why go out of our way to kill off an american icon?? If we were a nation of starving refugees, it might be different.....

The only alternative is me adopting them?? I should quit objecting to it because I can't adopt them all? I can't adopt all the endangered tigers, tree frogs, or all of anything else....does that mean they have to go? I can't save all the rivers from pollution by keeping them in my back yard--so I have no right to speak out against pollution?

Money is not the answer to all questions. I know the expense involved and the work required to care for animals, that cold, soul-less money doesn't have soft brown eyes and won't neigh good morning at the sound of your voice. Tell yourself that it's better to slaughter one rather that allow it to 'suffer old age', but I know mine stuck their muzzles into the feed bucket with relish, and enjoyed a good rubdown and back scratch even at an advanced age. When it became neccessary, the vet gave an injection....and yes the back hoe was rented.

( If a farmer operates his farm as a business.....pays into social security as any other small business owner/ self employed person does, then he should draw a check upon retirement. Right?)

Well fray, have you even adopted one yet? Or are you still just whining about it.

If I have the need to waste a round, then yes I get out the Deere or Farmall and attach a hoe. Usually they have been sold before that.

Might want to look at SSA for Farmers. Might be eye opening. There are not to many 'new' farmers today. If you were before 1956, oh well, hope you saved money in jars..

Obviously I am not a farmer (as a job) but I do have a vested interest in how my land, bottom ground, hill ground and timber are used. Not to mention that the land has been in my family since the federal govt deeded claims.

[edit on 12/15/2004 by just_a_pilot]

Remember that hourse had their chance to live in the new world and they all died off in the Oligocene, long before any humans even existed.

The horses we see today are not wild, they are feral; just like a household kitty-cat who runs away and raises her kittens in the field behind your house. Those kittens are feral, too. So are the "wild" burros here in Arizona, or the rabbits in Australia, or snakes in Guam. The proper word for an animal who was introduced by man is called an "exotic".

Now I agree with Ms. Bleys (even though she might not have her Temple Recommend) about the BLM. Western ranchers are destroying the local environment with their cattle, which could be raised much more cost-effectively and with much less damage to the environment if thery were limited to midwest feed-lots. The BLM shouldn't even be in the land business, as far as I'm concerned!

But I don't see any difference between someone capturing horses and eating them and me putting in for mule deer each year at Hunt Area 12A West on the Kaibab Plateau, and eating them, either.

Off_the_street. You just exactly described what these horses are. They are not native nor are they wild. They are feral. Where are all the animal lovers for the *wild* pig or razorback.........Law is to shoot a feral hog on sight.

Good Post street.


[edit on 12/15/2004 by just_a_pilot]

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Remember that hourse had their chance to live in the new world and they all died off in the Oligocene, long before any humans even existed.

Hubris. What killed them (if indeed they all died- there is doubt about this) was a process that may recur- elsewhere. See the threads on hypernovae or climate change or supervolcanoes or asteroid/cometary impacts or superviruses. Horses became extinct here about 10,000 years ago according to accepted theory, co-existing with humans already here at that time. Pseudoscientific descriptions of an animal as 'feral' or 'native' are heartless reductionism and you know it. Ask those Mayan medicine men a few questions next time you visit. They can tell you about the Thunderponies, and show you petroglyphs in the caves. A callous attitude toward living beings common among the modern Americans is generating untold bad karma that we Indians are going to have to share with you. Start to care while you can- you'll want someone to care for you when you too become voiceless and helpless in the future!

Well fray, have you even adopted one yet? Or are you still just whining about it.

Gee pilot, I guess I'm just whining about it......if I saw you being run over by a bully, I guess you might suddenly appreciate my whiney voice when I spoke up to say I didn't think it was right. Do you really think it makes your position righter to belittle me personally? When did I whiz in your cheerios??

I have given money to the wild horse protection people in years past. I can give the support of my voice, even if I cannot adopt one of their animals....I personally do not like the idea of adopting a wild ( or feral if you insist....the animal that has run wild all of his life will not know the difference whether he is wild or feral ). Animals that are born to captivity are far more suited to it than those that are captured after being wild from birth.

You have espoused the belief that domestic horses should be slaughtered when their usefulness is done.....I have answered that I cannot do that with my companion of numerous adventures. I have taken the brunt of several diatribes that seem rather personal....do you think you know me??What did I do to you?? Not shoot my horse?

Hey frey, I was not putting you down in any way. I just keep hearing talk and see no action. Why don't you start a fundraiser? Do something.

``

theres only 2 places i heard of...Ochrekoke? island in NC and also in AZ

it seems that the federal lands wild (or ferel) horses are given free reign
until such time conditions warrent down-sizing...

theres been for 20+ years an adoption process & agency

i doubt in the light of PoliticalCorrectness since the 1970s that any
animals are treated in-humanely
~~~

as for the long established creedo of 'Subdue The Earth'
the hubris de Jour establishes their own rules, we less powerful follow-

sometimes the mad subjugation of the earth, becomes a battle-cry like
"Manifest-Destiny"...which is still a Balance Due Account!

i can see a distinction that can be easily misunderstood
the hunter Alpha dissing the herd
the girlie-men having compassion
me, i'm vegetarian

#48

Chakotay says:

"Hubris."

It's not hubris, or overweening pride. What it is -- is evolution and natural selection.

"Horses became extinct here about 10,000 years ago according to accepted theory, co-existing with humans already here at that time."

Exactly, and probably the only relationship between the proto-amerinds and the horses was eater and eaten, just like their relationship with all the other megafauna. Nothing wrong with that, since H sapiens was (and is) at the top of the food-chain; but there wasn't any of this metaphysical stuff back then, near as I can figure -- just a good meal of horse-ribs around the fire.

"Pseudoscientific descriptions of an animal as 'feral' or 'native' are heartless reductionism and you know it."

"Pseudo" means "false". There is nothing false about the definition of wild versus feral, although you might really want there to be.

"A callous attitude toward living beings common among the modern Americans is generating untold bad karma that we Indians are going to have to share with you."

What a load of rubbish!

Indians are every bit as callous in their attitude toward living things -- and the land itself -- as are anyone else; take a trip through the Navajo or Tohono O'odham Reservations if you doubt that. I've been living in the West for over a quarter century, and I don't play any of that Rousseauian sauvage noble crapola.

I think the only reasons I hear all these cries of outrage about feral horses being hunted down is that you're not used to see them the way you see most other large animals -- wrapped in white paper at the meat counter at Safeway.

[edit on 17-12-2004 by Off_The_Street]

Hey all you "happy carnivores," why is slaughtering wild horses any worse then slaughtering farm animals? Can the seemingly well imformed masses really be oblivious to the horrors of "factory farms" and slaughterhouses of agribusiness? I doubt it. Shame on all of us for allowing such atrocities to exist. Animals are not here to be our food. Our culture has been brainwashed to believe animal protein is good for us and our health will suffer without it. Nothing could be further from the truth. I suggest a little research for the misguided mainstream. Go to any vegan or animal rights site for enlightenment. Here you'll witness the horrific abuse and torture now standard at most American farms. See how happy you'll be munching animals after that.

Originally posted by dollmonster
Hey all you "happy carnivores," why is slaughtering wild horses any worse then slaughtering farm animals? Can the seemingly well imformed masses really be oblivious to the horrors of "factory farms" and slaughterhouses of agribusiness? I doubt it. Shame on all of us for allowing such atrocities to exist. Animals are not here to be our food. Our culture has been brainwashed to believe animal protein is good for us and our health will suffer without it. Nothing could be further from the truth. I suggest a little research for the misguided mainstream. Go to any vegan or animal rights site for enlightenment. Here you'll witness the horrific abuse and torture now standard at most American farms. See how happy you'll be munching animals after that.

I live in the heart of "Agribusiness" america,there are farms all around me.
I have never seen any animals abused.Animals are food,face it.
Why dont you go visit some farmers instead of letting a biased web site make your decisions for you.
I munch very happily as i am thankful for the flesh i have to sustain my life.
Have you ever been on a farm?
I would consider myself lucky to own and work a farm.
Have you ever hunted?there is something sacred about hunting.
The american indians understood this too.
It must be nice to afford a vegi only diet as i imagine it isnt cheap.

"Welcome, come in and see Nizhoni Spirit Horse". Off The Street, now you've done it. I would be upset, but I am not, because I know you will live at least two more lives: one as a Navajo, and one as a horse.

Chakotay

There is no doubt to those who look into the eyes of a horse, they see a nobel spirit, when the mind reasons thus, the heart speaks loudly.
Or when the eyes behold a soaring eagle in all its majesty, the spirit is touched and again the heart speaks.
How so then, is the spirit numbed and the heart muted, when the same eyes behold a nobel deer and foal, or a peaceful cow and calf, the sheep and the lamb?
Behold the power of the stomach, to cloud the mind which understood nobility, to dull the eyes which beheld beauty, to silence the heart that spoke of beauty, and warp the logic of a logical being.
How do you measure the spirit of a horse? a cow? a deer? what makes distinction? Is it the hungry stomach, the illogical mind, the tinted vision of imperfect eyes? or the foolish heart?

Do you honestly believe factory farm abuse is the fiction of a few biased web sites? Your denial sure is convienent isn't it? Refusing to acknowledge establised fact frees you from responsibility.
My grandparents were farmers and several relatives in Moussouri still are. I've been on dozens of farms, had chickens for pets, been terrorized and chased by turkeys and geese, rode cows and have been charged at by bulls. I 've milked cows and seen many a chicken jumping around after it's neck was wrung. Have you? You say you live amongst agribusiness. Have you ever actually been inside a factory farm? Do you really know what it is? Maybe your confused. If you've actually observed the workings of a true factory Farm and felt nothing was wrong, maybe you're a sociopath, incable of compassion. Only the unenlightened arrogantly proclaim animals as food. Might doesn't mean right. Survial of the strongest is the mentality that enslaved blacks killed off Native Americans and today engages in war for control. Maybe someday you'll claim responsibility for your misguided beliefs. For your sake I hope so.

Doll, my farm is in Milan Missouri. The PSF hog plant is there. They slaughter 1500 head a day and so yes I would say animals are food. Yes I have been there and I have seen no mistreatment of animals. Death, yes. Its quick and not 'inhumane'.

Originally posted by dollmonster
Do you honestly believe factory farm abuse is the fiction of a few biased web sites? Your denial sure is convienent isn't it? Refusing to acknowledge establised fact frees you from responsibility.
My grandparents were farmers and several relatives in Missouri still are. I've been on dozens of farms, had chickens for pets, been terrorized and chased by turkeys and geese, rode cows and have been charged at by bulls. I 've milked cows and seen many a chicken jumping around after it's neck was wrung. Have you? You say you live amongst agribusiness. Have you ever actually been inside a factory farm? Do you really know what it is? Maybe your confused. If you've actually observed the workings of a true factory Farm and felt nothing was wrong, maybe you're a sociopath, incable of compassion. Only the unenlightened arrogantly proclaim animals as food. Might doesn't mean right. Survial of the strongest is the mentality that enslaved blacks killed off Native Americans and today engages in war for control. Maybe someday you'll claim responsibility for your misguided beliefs. For your sake I hope so.

Well now doll. Every factory farm that is a slaughter house I have seen are very humane and death is very quick. Quite unlike the deer I just gut shot that has to wait for me to cut its throat or shoot it again. At least in the factory the bolt hits square and its done, next stop the boiling pot. I have slaughterd just about every kind of animal ( coyotes and feral hogs get to suffer as far as I am concerned, for that matter so can a red tail hawk. Endangered only around me or my uncle )I can think of with the exception of a horse and 9 times out of ten it is not a very quick process on the family farm. Ever see a horse that had to be killed because she ripped inside and was giving birth out of the wrong hole?? not pretty. Ever stick your hand up a horse, cow, or ewe to help it along???

I thought not.

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
Quite unlike the deer I just gut shot that has to wait for me to cut its throat or shoot it again. At least in the factory the bolt hits square and its done, next stop the boiling pot. I have slaughterd just about every kind of animal ( coyotes and feral hogs get to suffer as far as I am concerned, for that matter so can a red tail hawk.

You seem to be very proud of yourself for making something suffer....why? Do you somehow enjoy making another living creature suffer to death? WTF is wrong with you if you do? Professional help may be needed here as it is not normal to enjoy something like this unless you have problems

Ever stick your hand up a horse, cow, or ewe to help it along???

Yes I have....

My family has also had farm all their lives....kills were quick and as painless as possible.....you must hang with some warped people.

I never said anything about wanting an animal to suffer. If it is a clean shot then so much the better. If I shot it in the gut and It wasnt a clean shot then it does suffer ( except for a coyote, good for nothing mange carrying disease ridden and sickness infested creatures they are, although I try to make it a clean shot if I see one ). Nothing I can do about it until I get to it.

Sorry our views are not on the same plain. I don't live amongst 'sick' people. I live amongst the reality of what happens on a farm, like it or not.

[edit on 12/27/2004 by just_a_pilot]

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
( except for a coyote, good for nothing mange carrying disease ridden and sickness infested creatures they are,

Why!? It still has a life force given to it......it is not right to feel nothing for something suffering.