Wild horses to be sold and slaughtered!!!

Originally posted by Bleys
It amazes me that wolves, turtles and snaildarters have more rights and protection than these horses. It will be a huge loss if the wild horse herds are culled and won't do anything to solve the underlying problem of overgrazing..

It appalls me that wild animals are not left alone. Surely, these ranchers shouldn't be allowed to graze on federal lands.

Alas, Bleys, the wolves do not esape this tragedy. Apparently, any animal, even those protected cannot elude the rancher's wrath.
NOTE: this story does not have a happy ending.

The pack had already been reduced to five wolves but still was led by the alpha male and the stunningly white alpha female that hundreds of wolf lovers around the world knew by the name they�d given her, Alabaster.


As the helicopter swooped down, the pack scattered and Niemeyer began to fire. Number four buckshot spreads out and has tremendous stopping power, effective for hitting animals on the run. Even so, it took several hours, with Niemeyer shooting one wolf after another as they bolted from this piece of cover to that. It is a skill, keeping your balance in the doorway of the helicopter, leaning in the harness and aiming, accepting the recoil, the gunsmoke and thunder against your face, shooting only when you manage to get within close range, 30 or 40 yards, making sure whenever you hit a wolf, enough pellets tear into the flesh and bone that death is instantaneous.

www.hcn.org...

When the wolf is taken off the endangered species list, livestock owners will have more options in dealing with the carnivores. Federal wolf managers hope the wolf will be off the list by 2003, opening up the door to state management.

www.propertyrightsresearch.org...

Wolves in the eastern US no longer considered an endangerd species:

The Eastern DPS extends from the Dakotas, Nebraska, and Kansas to the East Coast. The southern boundary includes Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey, and its northern boundary is the Canadian border. The proposal does not affect red wolves in the southeastern U.S., which are also listed by the Endangered Species Act. The requirements of the Act will remain in effect for wolves in the Eastern DPS until the proposal is finalized.

www.doi.gov...

Ed. to add more information






[edit on 12-12-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

hmm Well a coyote had better not let me see it especially around calfs or chickens. He will be a dead one for sure. A wolf? If I don't get away from it I would probably go in my pants before I could shoot it.

Um as for your horses, You do realize no horses are Native to North America at least of these kind. Horses were imported in the 1400's. The 'wild ones' got loose...........

I'm not sure I understand the issue here. These are horses that have gone wild, not ones that are naturally wild (iow, there are no native wild horses in the US). But thats a minor issue anyway. Apparently this is a population cull of the animals. THere is nothing particularly unusual about this. And instead of killing them on the field they are being shipped to slaughter houses. Other animals go thru this all the time. Why oppose the transport proces?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Apparently this is a population cull of the animals. THere is nothing particularly unusual about this. And instead of killing them on the field they are being shipped to slaughter houses. Other animals go thru this all the time. Why oppose the transport proces?

If the horse herds were the cause, I would have no problem with culling or relocation - that's just life, a balance. But it's not - there are less than 40K wild horses and burros in the US.

My objection to this is irrelevance - killing or moving the horses does not correct the problem. The problem is overgrazing and lack of planning by BLM. Once the horses are gone the land is still being overused with no reclamation being made by the ranchers. The horses and burros are a convenient scapegoat for gross mismanagement by the BLM.

B.

Lack of planning for what? A non native animal having room to roam? The HORSE WAS NOT HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Not in North Americas ecological system. Yet I guess with your logic the pigs eating up Hawaii should be allowed to roam and destroy the place. Heck they are wild there now.

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
The HORSE WAS NOT HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Not in North Americas ecological system.

I may be wrong, but I think the cows are not native either. So, why are they allowed.
Of course, you may say they are used for food. Then, it seems the real reason the horses are not allowed is $$$$$$$.

No they arent. But exactly how many wild cows do you see running around??????? As for $$ not even close. I'll keep the cows. I have seen more people and even family members go bankrupt screwing around with stupid horses. If you want money farming animals. Ummmm dude beef its whats for dinner.

Horses, cows, pigs, chickens, ducks its all meat. They are all commercial animals if not used for food then for something else. Therefore I don't feel one commercial animal has more right over another. Maybe we should just get our heads out of our asses and legalize horse meat for consumption here in the U.S. so that these issues can become non-issues.

Horsemeat is lean, protein-rich, finely textured, bright red, firm, and more so horses are immune to BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy). Tough meat cuts must be cooked long enough to tenderise connective tissue (collagen), or marinated before cooking to ensure both flavour and tenderness.

Hey guess what people in Canada eat horse meat and so do Italians, Swiss, Japanese and many others

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
Lack of planning for what? A non native animal having room to roam? The HORSE WAS NOT HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Not in North Americas ecological system.

Looks like you're wrong about that:

WHBA
It is commonly believed that a primitive type horse died out in North America some 8,000-10,000 years ago and the modern horse was re-introduced by the Spanish in the early 1500's. This has been disproven when in September of 1993, some placer miners in the Yukon uncovered a horse and paleontologists were called in. Initially, nobody thought too much about the well preserved, brownish red horse in the permafrost layer. It didn't look much different than any other horse that had died and been buried in the mud. You can imagine the surprise when analysis revealed it was about 25,000 years old!...

...The specimen was named Equus lambei and it is fossil proof that horses evolved in North America (which we knew) to a finished form (which was real news). For many years, scientists had believed that the type of horse that died out some 8,000 years ago on the continent was a far different animal than the one that returned with the Spanish Conquistadors. Now, we know that the horse evolved here to a finished form, then went extinct, and was re-introduced. Hence, the wild horse is a native and deserves to be protected as such.

I think you should move your butt out of there and let the wild horses of America have one of the few areas that still remain.
There are sill many thousands of acres of land where you can go and farm in peace. The horses don't have that option.

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
Lack of planning for what? A non native animal having room to roam?

There is a finite amount of land out West and with the effects of the drought over the last 6 years there is less and less available land to graze. For too many decades the BLM has allowed the use and abuse of these lands without setting aside funds to reseed or restrict grazing. They are the problem - not the horses and not the burros - it's a case of irresponsible land management.

As to your comment that the horses are not indigenous - I have to ask who cares? Neither are we, but more importantly it is irrelevant because it does not change the fact that the horses are not the problem it is the BLM's mismanagement.

B.





[edit on 12/12/04 by Bleys]

Um ace. Move from where? Hmmm Northern Virginia where I reside? IF you had bothered to read the whole post. My farm is in the CRP dude. A conservation wildlife rehab program that I would have to pull out of to put all the CATTLE ON THE FARM. DAMN. THE HORSIES that you see today are NOT native to here! The DOMESTICATED turned WILD mustang, chincotigue pony the horses at Corrala and Duck and the rest that you understand as a HORSIE are not native.

Yer right, let em roam. Let the zebra muscle thrive. Let the creepy landwalking snakehead roam........ what the hell. They are in the 'wild now' so let em thrive.

Love how you pick and chose the animal to love yet "love them all"

BULL SHI*


[edit on 12/12/2004 by just_a_pilot]

Quite whining America. If you like to eat meat , enjoy a burger, drink milk, then your just as much to blame. Grazing of cattle and sheep here in Australia presents the same problem. (native) kangaroos compete for vegetation, farmers and graziers want mass culling of roos for this reason and now advocate full scale exportation of kangaroos for overseas food markets to free up land for cattle and sheep. Whats the difference, roos or horses? You cant have your cake AND eat it too. Your wild horses or your burgers? Natives animals first?, or the needs of human consumption first?
If you dont agree with, find a solution. (but im betting you wont like the solution). Incedently, I eat meat on occasion, and I hate to see the exploitation of native species and destruction of habitat for the sake of cattle and sheep farms. We should be eating the horses and the roos if we really must eat meat. Why do not farm native animals for food, instead introduce non native species into areas of native habitat and vastly change the landscape due to preference?

Yes Titian I see the point you make. I don't take gratification in killing pups that aren't wanted. But in the real world of farms and animals it has to be done.

What a BS statement! If you dont take gratification from doing that then why do you allow indescriminate breeding in the first place ? I hate that mentality!

Anyone who can ask what's the difference between eating a horse and eating a cow hasn't really paid attention to either one.

The most beautiful land-based animal in my mind is the horse. Though there are certain Asian beliefs that the more exquisite the animal the more desired the dish, I am neither Asian, nor do I in anyway understand this thinking.

For those of us that don't mind eating meat, we do so for sustenance, not "spirit" nor "nature" of the beast. We the eat the ugliest and the domiciled...because that seems the thing to do.

To take a spirit as beautiful and awesome as a horse, whether it be maverick or draft, and denegrate it to a meal is just absolute beyond me.

Americans do not like the thought of eating a horse. Pretty picky bunch huh. Horses are kind of like the auto of today and weeeee alllll love em.

Sheet people all over the world eat horses. I would if it was served. Oh you should see people when they find out you eat rabbit and squirils and deer. OHHHHH YUCK. The love it untill they find out what it is.

Horses were in North America waay before they were brought back by the spanish explorers, see this site

Pilot, you do what ever you want to do with your animals, the BLM land belongs to all of us, and if we don't like what the BLM is doing, we get to say something about it. Better watch the name calling....I hear the powers that be don't like that .

Since the cows eat what the horse doesn't, why do ranchers want the horses off the range......personal grudge?

By the way, bet you would NOT eat horsemeat either....I have, once when I did not know what it was. It's TOUGH, and STRINGY -- not like your grain fed beef, looks too red, and has little taste. You may get your chance to try it--congress wants to remove the "country of origin" from food labels...that way 'stew meat' ( not beef) in cans will not mention "from Argentina"--a tip off that it is horsemeat.

[edit on 12-12-2004 by frayed1]

Originally posted by Valhall
Anyone who can ask what's the difference between eating a horse and eating a cow hasn't really paid attention to either one.

The most beautiful land-based animal in my mind is the horse. Though there are certain Asian beliefs that the more exquisite the animal the more desired the dish, I am neither Asian, nor do I in anyway understand this thinking.

For those of us that don't mind eating meat, we do so for sustenance, not "spirit" nor "nature" of the beast. We the eat the ugliest and the domiciled...because that seems the thing to do.

To take a spirit as beautiful and awesome as a horse, whether it be maverick or draft, and denegrate it to a meal is just absolute beyond me.

And what makes any animal more "beutiful and awesome" than another?
Human predjustice! nothing more. Thats the most unconsidered and truley silly thinking ive ever heard valhall, sorry!

I was not aware of calling any one a name. Sorry if I did. But some ranchers do like horses and cattle. Its not a grudge. Both are livestock used for different purposes. People seem to think these wild horses are something other than work animals that were domesticated to serve mankind and not just to run around and look pretty. That is the bottom line and people seem to want them around but refuse to see what they are and really were. That is people who don't have to take care of them day in and day out. Cattle are no different other that earning more money for the farmer. Bred for slaughter. Kids learn at a young age in rural counties what reality is. These FFA kids start raising steers for show and slaughter for feed or food.

I guess that is where the difference is. Sure I have a couple of horses used for work and riding. But I don't need a bunch of freeloaders running around my ground eating me out of pasture land. Most cattle will earn money. 99% of the horses are not going to do that. Those dudes are not Secretariats foal running around you know? Dog food.

And by the way. A whoole lot of cow is processed into feed because people dont like tough and stringy. It is the cut of meat more than the type of animal butchered. A backstrap is a backstrap and flank a flank. Fr the more dainty, the backstrap is the tenderloin or if you want to get pricey I can cut it into Filet Mignon for you. I will eat all but intestine brain or liver YUCK. Now turkey fries YUMMY WOOHOOOOOOOOo


[edit on 12/12/2004 by just_a_pilot]

Originally posted by instar

And what makes any animal more "beutiful and awesome" than another?

My opinion, that's what. And I wouldn't eat anything I deemed as beautiful as a horse...irrespestive of how "silly" you deem my judgment.

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by instar

And what makes any animal more "beutiful and awesome" than another?

My opinion, that's what. And I wouldn't eat anything I deemed as beautiful as a horse...irrespestive of how "silly" you deem my judgment.

You misunderstand me Valhall. I dont care if you dont want to eat a horse. My point is, you say that we only eat "ugly" animals. If that should be so, why dont you eat snakes, toads, rats, insects? Beautiful or ugly is purely subjective and has nothing to do with issue!
we dont choose which animals to make food out of ,based on how "pretty" they are or are not. Your happy to turn a cow into a meal because in your opinion there ugly, but not a horse cause you think they are "beautiful and awesome". I bet if you were hungry enough that beautiful awesome horse would be dinner , no matter how pretty. Would you not use a horse for food to feed your kids, (if there was nothing else) because its just too "beautiful and awesome spirit"? I think you would.
Have you any thoughts on the ecological sense (or lack of) of grazing cattle on land that is habitat for other species ? Any logical reason why not eat horses ,apart from your subjective revulsion at the idea?
Saying we shouldnt eat them because they are pretty is a valid opinion but dosent really address the issue. Emotion rarely gets anywhere in a debate.
Thats all im saying. not attacking you personally Ok.