Detroit burger joint shows it’s possible to pay workers $15 an hour and still make money

originally posted by: prisoneronashipoffools

originally posted by: Bilk22
The only effect of raising the minimum wage will have, especially if it's doubled, will be to create inflation. Business owners aren't stupid or foolish. They will pass the costs on to the consumer. Who eats at McD's? People who earn minimum wage. They will incur higher costs. Same with counter workers in all businesses. They may make a few more bucks, but will also pay more. There's no winning. Only treading water.

Maybe so, but what you and others fail to realize is that the push for higher wages in low skilled positions arises from the fact that inflation is happening and has been happening for ages . The only thing that has not been keeping up with inflation is wages and now it's getting to the point of devouring the already choking economy. Between inflation and outsourcing of labor, the workers of this country are getting ground down from the bottom up, lower skill workers are feeling the brunt, but higher skilled workers aren't fairing so well and will find it worse and worse for them as well. After all who pays for all the tradesmen, who pay for doctors, lawyers and higher skill workers?

The whole economy is dying and it's only going to get worse. Raising minimum wages may not be a long term answer, but doing nothing will just speed up the rot. Do nothing and eventually the lower skilled workers will be gone, the mid skilled workers like tradesmen will be gone, the higher skilled workers like doctors, will be gone, the whole of the middle class will be ground away and then their will only be the destitute and the godly rich.

You likened raising wages to treading water, but what happens when you don't even try to tread water? You drown.

And funny enough the rich never get theirs. After all the quantitative easing we payed to the banks and the fat cats added far more to inflation and did more to devalue the currency then paying lower skilled workers more money. But, yeah feck it their rich right and who cares about the those bottom feeding poor right?

There are lots of problems in this society, but raising the minimum wage, basically doubling it isn't gong to solve anything. No one should expect to be able to raise a family on the wages of a fry chefs. These counter jobs were traditionally either part time for young people or secondary income for a family.

It's just this type of issue that keeps the brain numb masses distracted. It's why Obama makes it an issue as do the other liberals in congress. Keep their stupid, brain dead constituents angry that they're not getting their fair share when in actuality, they've done nothing to deserve any of the share. Instead of telling them to get up off of their asses and not expect handouts from others, they tell them just the opposite and reward people for staying home and not working or contributing to society. There's more of those people now than there ever was. Look at the numbers of how many people are not working, stopped looking for work and are collecting on the backs of those that do. This is not sustainable and that's what the communist, liberal thinker are banking on. They want to rework society to their liking. You believe they have these people's best interests in mind? That's a fools notion.

The rich will always get richer. Live with it. That ain't changing, ever. Consider it one of the facts of life. Didn't anyone teach you those?

originally posted by: crazyewok


Thats the problem with the current criminal record system in both the USA and here in the UK the stigma and discrimination allowed makes it impossible for 99% to deal with there mistakes.

When you cant afford a roof over your head or to eat then one very very quickly turns back to crime. Or you end up in such a depressive state they end up back on drugs.

i agree. there is a problem.
i dont agree with wages being raised to 15 an hour for low skill jobs.

it gets very old hearing how they cant afford a roof over their head.
lots of people have hard times.....learning how to budget your money and live within your means goes a long way to helping someone afford that roof.
things can be done.
they can work more than 1 job. what is wrong with that? i have done it. my step father did it for years.
nobody just decided since we were having a hard time to double our wage.

people need to learn how to figure it out.
for the most part i feel if you are physically able to work then you can afford a place to live and food.
i know i know...all the tragedy stories of no jobs available and how the mcdonalds worker cant pay his bills.

i buy that to a point but it only holds so much water.

there are some very nice apartment complexes in my city where the rent is based off your income only.
if someone is only making 8 bucks an hour it would be very cheap for them...like crazy cheap.
my brother in law was going to rent one once and he was making 8 an hour and his rent was going to be like 100 a month...you telling me people cant afford that?
there are programs to help with utilities. my neighbor is on that program. i forget what it is called but he and his wife pay 10 a month for electric and 10 a month for gas.
you telling me people cant afford that?

im sure there are not programs like that in every single city in the country but i am also sure this city is not the only one.

there are factories that hire people with record. theyre not going to be multi national forbes 500 list companies but its better wages than mcdonalds....

my point is there are options. all sorts of people are on the grind, not just the minimum wage worker.
there are always other jobs, more hours, assistance programs.....

my neighbor also goes to several food pantries every month. at a few of the churches. they dont ask for income proof either. all he has to do is show a utility bill that proves he lives in the city.
his shelves are stocked....free
he has a freezer in his garage...stocked...chicken, ground beef, even steak...
he knocks on my door quite often actually with bags of stuff for me cause he has too much...
so save the sob story.
people do what they have to do.

again, im sure not every city in the country has these food programs but im sure this is not the only one.

yeah, the rules for how convictions effect you getting a job suck. they need to be changed.
in the end though, thats not my fault and it is not my problem.

my bro in laws girlfriend is the one that decided to carry a felony quantity of coke and a weapon. i didnt.
so, i guess she has to live with it by working fast food forever.

im with manbehindthemask too.

its always the evil ceo's and the laws and the this and the that.
its called working. going to college. going to trade school....
#in figure it out man...

originally posted by: Bilk22




. No one should expect to be able to raise a family on the wages of a fry chefs. These counter jobs were traditionally either part time for young people or secondary income for a family.

?

i dont get how throwing money at low skilled workers in low skill entry level positions helps anything.

how is it fair that an 18 year old kid with zero work experience working at mcdonalds should make almost the same as a teacher. or almost the same as quality control at the foundry? or mechanics.
those jobs require skills. skills acquired through college or tech school. those jobs require out of pocket expenses...
what the hell is the point of trying to do better for yourself and get a degree and skills if you can just go work the grill for 15 bones an hour?

what about the 16 year old part timer? he is supposed to make 15 an hour at his very first no skill job.
how is it right that someone in 10th grade makes as much as the teacher with a bachelors?
its insane
its ridiculous.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

honestly who the hell are you to make that call? You have no idea what people have to do for their jobs, you have no idea how hard they have to work or the hours they have to keep, you dont know any o fthat..........

Well, if you had of even bothered getting some context to my statement by actually reading what I was replying to, you'd probably realize that it is not me who has no idea.

Anyway, fact is no one gets rich in this world on there own, its just a myth. Somewhere down the line they got are free ride from somewhere. Whether they got an inheritance, where lucky enough to get the right job that gave them good opportunities, or even just born in the right family.

Honestly you sound like a spoiled brat, who hasnt worked a day in his life, who wants to complain about big CEOs and big companies while playing on his damn IPHONE, and watching his big screen TV, and playing his XBOX

All things made by big corporations, whose CEOs probably get paid much much more then you think........

Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. But this isn't a thread about my personal circumstances, or what I have and haven't done in my life.

There's a big world outside of that little box of yours, but I'll just leave it at that.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Spoken like a true Progressive.


Seeing that I have many wealthy friends, and some family members, NONE of them got an inheritance, NONE where born into money and the whole luck factor is a BS cop-out.

Sooooooooo.....

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

you sound like obuma,

you didn't get rich on your own.

I hear all this, you know, 'Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever.' No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody. You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Spoken like a true Progressive.


Seeing that I have many wealthy friends, and some family members, NONE of them got an inheritance, NONE where born into money and the whole luck factor is a BS cop-out.

Sooooooooo.....

So I suppose they just found a few million buried in there backyard then?

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

No wonder you are where you are.


Becoming successful doesn't require finding a million dollars.

We, me and many others here can explain it to you, but you wouldn't get it.

It will be interesting to see what happens when a fair amount of these workers realize they wont get state aid anymore if they get 15+ dollars an hour.

I lived in a fairly ghetto part of St. Louis for several years, and the people that did work, worked part time and were very careful about going over a certain number of hours per week, as it would put their food stamps in jeopardy. My neighbor who live right next to me actually told me that she wouldnt go in on her days off if called in as she might screw up her section 8.

In Mo. if you make over 20,000 in a year I dont think you qualify for anything, no food stamps(EBT card), no section 8, no state medical insurance, nothing.

a reply to: macman

Yeah I know, I already explained what it takes to be successful a few posts back. You also have to be selfish and it doesn't hurt to lack enough intelligence to care about all the suffering that goes on in the world, as long as you have lots of shiny & pretty items to show off.

btw, I am where I am because its exactly where I choose to be. But why would I bother explaining it, you clearly wouldn't understand.

A lot of passion in this thread, unfortunately it is only playing into the divisions - the entertainment for our "owners".

Quite frankly the BEST revolution the country could see would be if EVERYONE making minimum or less than a livable wage did not go to work for an entire week.



That way the "over privileged" could experience and witness the myriad of ways in which their lives would become a MASSIVE suck-fest, and they would learn to actually VALUE the workers that created their lifestyles in the first place.

Without the bottom, there IS no top. In any business or industry, across the board.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa


Yeah I know, I already explained what it takes to be successful a few posts back.

Oh really. I may have to check that out. Always wondering what a Progressive thinks in regards to what it takes to be successful.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
You also have to be selfish and it doesn't hurt to lack enough intelligence to care about all the suffering that goes on in the world, as long as you have lots of shiny & pretty items to show off.

Ahh, the hold suffering world BS.
I care about that as much as I care about what color pants you are wearing.
Selfish has nothing to do with being successful.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
btw, I am where I am because its exactly where I choose to be. But why would I bother explaining it, you clearly wouldn't understand.

I understand that completely. You cut your nose to spite your face.

And again.....success in business has nothing to do with what you stated.

I think that a company being able to set their unskilled wages at 15 bucks an hour is great if they can do it, but it is not ok for government to mandate that all businesses do likewise. This is what is wrong with Nanny State central planning. It doesn't work. The old Soviet Union proved that and the communists and socialists and "red diaper doper babies" in the US for some reason want to keep promoting the faulty concept that Marxism, redistribution of wealth, central planning, and a Progressive income tax will fix all the problems along with forcing people into the crazy obamacare failure.
Oh yes, and there are a few other things going on, like the attack on industry and business through excessive taxation and regulations as well as labor costs and now Obamacare forcing businesses to move abroad, and in general outsourcing of good jobs, especially now in the tech sector, plus the newest strategy of importing unskilled illegal laborers to take the jobs Americans WILL do just to barely make ends meet. By the way, this illegal immigration labor thing actually drives down wages. Now there just aren't as many higher paying jobs available because of the loss of industry, and people wonder why there is a demand to pay higher wages for unskilled labor? Marxists believe that if they make everything equal, than everyone will be doing their jobs and everyone be paid equally and society will be happy and everyone taken care of....happy Utopia......

a reply to: Bilk22

You are clueless. Lots of people raised a family with dad working at McDonalds in the 50's, 60,s 70,s etc. Fast food has been around forever. What people fail miserably at understanding pay cannot be tied todos much a job is worth. That is completely ignorant and shows a huge lack of understanding with what's wring with or even how our economy works. Inflation and other factors that have nothing to do with market forces have distorted the job -compensation market for decades now. Blame government, blame big business. They are all responsible. Whatever approach you take to burger flipping jobs and the economy so be it...... Bottom line is not only can you not afford to raise a family on minimum wage it's not enough for an individual to live without relying on some sort of government subsidy or straight up welfare.

And that's exactly where so many fail to realize you and I tax payer are subsidizing all these minimum slave wage jobs one way or the other. And if you don't think its done on purpose by corporations etc your naive. Government serves the bottom line of Wallstreet plain and simple and the middle class is all about propping it up, all the corruption, inefficiency, fraud etc.

So what happens to wages that those of us make that are already above min wage?
Will we get a comparable increase?
And if not, how many people will be worse off when the cost of food and other daily living expenses go up?

a reply to: macman

Anyway, the thing you hardcore conservatives don't seem to get is not everybody only thinks or cares about themselves. I'm not even arguing for me here. I wouldn't 'ever' work for $7.25 an hour, that's slave wages. I mean, even the dole pays more than that!

Truth be told, I've got nothing but options. Yeah, right at this minute I might be doing it a little hard because I was recently put off because of some dispute I had with a worker, who had friends in the union, bunch of criminals they are! But I was earning $23.50 an hour plus 30% loading for night shift, just for loading can ends onto a sausage feed.

I've just decided to take a break (because I can) till the new year. Then I'll just make one phone call and be back earning at least $21 an hour with the labour hire company I was working for before this night shift job. lol, its just ironic that you automatically assume because I'm passionate about people getting a livable wage, that it means I must be getting degraded by being forced to work for such a pathetic minimum.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

Anyway, fact is no one gets rich in this world on there own, its just a myth. Somewhere down the line they got are free ride from somewhere. Whether they got an inheritance, where lucky enough to get the right job that gave them good opportunities, or even just born in the right family.

thats a load.
it does not always come down to that.
there are lots of people out there that dug in and worked hard. started their own company via a small business loan and have become successful.
i suppose they got lucky in getting the loan...has nothing to do with proper money management and keeping their credit good.
lucky to get the right job...its always luck huh?
cant possibly be they attained skills that afforded them a job with room for growth.
cant possibly be that.

a lot of mechanics wind up opening their own shops. they get a couple tow trucks or a flat bed...
they do pretty well. sure, they are not rich but they are doing good and it is not because they were born rich.

it seems like today people dont want to work for anything. they think they deserve it automatically and they want it given to them.
if john doe is not happy at mcdonalds or is not making enough then he should make changes.
curb spending and/or get a better job.
people do it every day....
i already mentioned the types of programs there are for income based rent and $10 utilities.

you know damn well john doe working at mcdonalds with a wife that works at bk get food assistance for them and their kids. theyre gonna be on medicaid. they might get section 8. they might be getting cash assistance..

and they still cant make it??? maybe it is time to downgrade the 55 inch plasma and dump the broadband. maybe instead of iphones for the entire family they should use a $15 flip...i use it...it works.

people need to take some personal responsibility.
if they did get a kick up to 15 bones then more than likely they are not going to qualify for all the free # and assistance they get so they will still be on the struggle. then they will bitch cause they lost their hand out.

you do realize that for every hard working college grad that has to work at mcdonalds there is a lazy bastard that prefers it cause it is only part time and they can rake in the assistance.

i mentioned my neighbor. last year he was not working at all. rent is free. utilities are 10 each.
in the last year he started at a landscape company and made his way to $16 an hour inside of like 4 months. he also bought a truck and does stuff on the side.
you think he informed the people at section 8 or the utility companies?
of course not.
he no longer needs that assistance but he damn sure is not going to give it up.

the solution to some of these issues is they need to to a better job getting people off these programs once they do not qualify anymore. that will open up more funds for people that need it and do qualify.

we keep hearing how the big bad ceo makes too much and how certain jobs would have to take a hit to pay these fast food workers 15 an hour.

why not take issue with the athletes that are signing multi million dollar deals to play a #in game?
why not take issue with brad pitt making 25 million a picture up front plus cash on the back end plus royalties for life?
why not take issue with the leading 6 on friends all got 1 million each per episode, plus syndication royalties for life..

keep talking about the ceo's and the company owners who dont deserve what they get....

get your # straight...

how about all these athletes and movie stars and tv stars take a 50% hit in their salaries and use that to raise the minimum wage. hell, raise the wage for everyone.

telling me brad pitt cant survive on 12.5 mill a picture?

or we could just encourage people to actually work and do better.

i would much rather see college/tech/vocational schools be affordable for people to learn the skills to get a beter job. im sure there will be an excuse then too. people just want it handed to them.

originally posted by: MiddleClassWhiteBoy


You are clueless. Lots of people raised a family with dad working at McDonalds in the 50's, 60,s 70,s etc. Fast food has been around forever.

yeah, its been around forever and daddy was not supporting his family of 4 on a mcdonalds job back then.
daddy got off his ass and worked in the factory or the mill. the foundry.
fast food work has never paid enough to provide for a family on that income alone.

why do people expect an entry level job to be able to support the family?
thats why it is called entry level. little to no skill required. it gets you in the work force. it teaches you responsibilities.
you can work there while you go to school.
then, you move on.
i dont know why people dont get this.

i agree that people do deserve to make a living wage...and they can. just not at a part time fast food entry level job.
there are other jobs available...might have to work 2 jobs for a while.
might have to take some classes at the vocational school or do some online classes....

my brothers girlfriend was working as a hostess at bob evans. did it for years and make crap money. well he and her have a couple kids and changes needed to be made.
she stayed at that joband went to school for dental assistant. it took her like 6 months of school and she got a job as soon as she graduated and she makes 11 an hour now.

6 whole months of school.

why cant other people do that?

it is possible and attainable if you have the desire to get off your ass and get after it.

all the people that say they have a college degree and cant get anything besides fast food.
well i guess it would be smart to do something like she did. there is a damand for dental assisting in her area and in 6 months she was doing it.

there are always jobs in healthcare and i dont mean a doctor either
dental assistant.
medical billing and coding
stna's.

the stna program is pretty short. thats a $12 an hour job all day

im sure there are loads of reasons why the meat patty engineer cant do it though.

originally posted by: MiddleClassWhiteBoy
a reply to: Bilk22

You are clueless. Lots of people raised a family with dad working at McDonalds in the 50's, 60,s 70,s etc. Fast food has been around forever. What people fail miserably at understanding pay cannot be tied todos much a job is worth. That is completely ignorant and shows a huge lack of understanding with what's wring with or even how our economy works. Inflation and other factors that have nothing to do with market forces have distorted the job -compensation market for decades now. Blame government, blame big business. They are all responsible. Whatever approach you take to burger flipping jobs and the economy so be it...... Bottom line is not only can you not afford to raise a family on minimum wage it's not enough for an individual to live without relying on some sort of government subsidy or straight up welfare.

And that's exactly where so many fail to realize you and I tax payer are subsidizing all these minimum slave wage jobs one way or the other. And if you don't think its done on purpose by corporations etc your naive. Government serves the bottom line of Wallstreet plain and simple and the middle class is all about propping it up, all the corruption, inefficiency, fraud etc.

You believe people raised families working at Burger Kink and you call me clueless? LOL Maybe the manager of a BK did, but not anyone working the counter did. Heck, I'm 54 and never saw adults working the counters until maybe 15- 20 yrs ago, unless they were the owner or part time help. Never saw anyone thinking they were going to be working a burger counter and have the ability to raise a family on the wage offered no matter what time in history you want to look at. Minimum wage was not for raising families then or now. Clueless? Look in the mirror.

Oh and by the way, I have a certain amount of intimate knowledge on the operation of MCds and the like. A god friend of mine owns a few. His father, who did raise him on quite nice earnings from "owning" businesses that employ minimum wage, low skill/no skill employees, started the businesses - MDs franchise and A&W franchise, and go into them in the late 60s and early 70s when we were in grade school together. He used to hire college students and housewives that could take hours during the day when their kids were in school. College kids usually worked the night shifts. You didn't see any men working the counters. Never. They had real jobs - firemen, mechanics, doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs. You know, the jobs that require skill, training and real responsibility? Jobs that are expected to come with benefits and reasonable compensation?

The last part of your post is 100% correct, but not for the reason you want to believe. Yes we subsidize these jobs with welfare, food stamps and the like, because people think they can not get trained or educated and still have the ability to pump out kids and have a 60 inch TV on the wall. No one thinks about working and earning a living for their future. They think about standing in line for an iPhone 6 or new Nike sneakers.

Get a clue!

originally posted by: Bilk22

, because people think they can not get trained or educated and still have the ability to pump out kids and have a 60 inch TV on the wall. No one thinks about working and earning a living for their future. They think about standing in line for an iPhone 6 or new Nike sneakers.

exactly right...
money management and living within your means goes a long way..
my brothers girlfriend was that way...making crap money as a hostess. she would get her check that was a check for 2 weeks worth of work and spend it all on a new purse and a tan...
i mean wtf?
im supposed to feel bad cause she is broke though?
boo hoo the rent and groceries....

she did change her ways like i said but it took a while.
had she not spent 2 weeks salary on a coach purse, she could have paid a lot of bills.

take a look at the people at these fast food spots when they are on break. i see them all the time in the lobby eating their lunch and theyre all rocking the samsung galaxy or the iphone.
that is bad money management and m not going to feel bad about it.

people can educate themselves and get better work. for various reasons they wont.
thats their own fault.
im not saying they are gonna go from minimum wage to $20 an hour but 6 months worth of school will take you from minimum wage at 30 hours a week to $11 at 40 hours a week.
only think that stops them is them....