Transgender girl awarded $75,000 in lawsuit over school bathroom access

originally posted by: NavyDoc



No, what I'm saying is that many girls and women would be uncomfortable with the concept of a man in a dress in their locker room or changing room or their bathroom--whether they know it or not. .

agreed.
i dont get why wind is hung up on how they know.
i dont get why its cool as long as they dont know about it.

a reply to: Grovit

if the transgender girl has the right to go to the bathroom without feeling uncomfortable, then the other girls do as well.

In this case, or in any case where a persons gender is being publicly scrutinized, I would imagine that this girls classmates are not the only ones feeling uncomfortable. Ever see "Mean Girls"? I imagine it's no cake walk for this little girl, in the girls bathroom.

But, I would imagine the boys room would be virtual HELL for her! I don't suppose the boys would take kindly to her being there either.

originally posted by: windword

In this case, or in any case where a persons gender is being publicly scrutinized, I would imagine that this girls classmates are not the only ones feeling uncomfortable. Ever see "Mean Girls"? I imagine it's no cake walk for this little girl, in the girls bathroom.

well, she is choosing to live as a girl.
i know i know...her brain and this and that..her self esteem.
i know
in the end, she is choosing to live as a woman.

people have to live with their choices

a reply to: Grovit

i dont get why wind is hung up on how they know.
i dont get why its cool as long as they dont know about it.

It's a privacy issue that goes beyond this particular case. Let's say you use an Applebee's bathroom. Would YOU personally rather have a transgender woman use YOUR men's bathroom, or the woman's bathroom? Is you answer based on how you feel about your privacy?

Now how about the privacy of the transgender woman? What happens to it when she walks into a men's room? Everyone who sees her walk in and out, men and women, all will automatically know that she's transgender, what's under her skirt. Her privacy is lost.

If the transgender woman uses the Applebee's woman's room, no one is the wiser, one way or the other. Everybody's privacy remains in tact! Win/Win!

originally posted by: Grovit

originally posted by: windword

In this case, or in any case where a persons gender is being publicly scrutinized, I would imagine that this girls classmates are not the only ones feeling uncomfortable. Ever see "Mean Girls"? I imagine it's no cake walk for this little girl, in the girls bathroom.

well, she is choosing to live as a girl.
i know i know...her brain and this and that..her self esteem.
i know
in the end, she is choosing to live as a woman.

people have to live with their choices

Some people would argue that she has no choice in that matter.

If a person has full use of a toilet then why were they awarded any money by a court system. If their feelings were hurt by the injustice of not being allowed to use a toilet of their gender then an apology would have sufficed, end of story. These settlements are not about freedoms or rights, the litigation system in US awards lawyers and insurance companies with greater and greater profits. Its a self serving business.

originally posted by: windword



Some people would argue that she has no choice in that matter.

some people can argue all they want.
does not matter.

she made a choice.

its not like mental illness

people do not choose to have schizophrenia

its not a like a disease

people do not choose to have brain cancer

for whatever her reasons are, she is choosing to live as a woman.....

originally posted by: glend
If a person has full use of a toilet then why were they awarded any money by a court system. If their feelings were hurt by the injustice of not being allowed to use a toilet of their gender then an apology would have sufficed, end of story. These settlements are not about freedoms or rights, the litigation system in US awards lawyers and insurance companies with greater and greater profits. Its a self serving business.

This is an side conversation, but I agree. A major problem with our society is litigation and everyone going around looking for a payout. The only people who win in such a society are lawyers--everyone else has to deal with more expense and hassle.

a reply to: Grovit

She's choosing to live honestly, as the person with whom she self identifies. What she wears is a choice. Who she is, not so much.

a reply to: windword

Obviously the transgenders, because isn't that what this thread is about? "Who got their way"? I'm not against her (him, whatever) using the women's restroom. And this is why I say screw gender specific bathrooms as a whole. Give us a room with a ton of stalls with locks. Maybe us boys can finally take a No. 2 in a clean restroom for a change!

(Yes, I've been in the women's stall at least once. Man, I could eat a steak off of that floor compared to the men's bathroom!)

a reply to: Auricom

Ah yes. I did a thread on that problem!

The Problem of "Bad Aim" Solved!

originally posted by: Vaedur
F*@$@)@ that's all I have to say about that, but this is definitely not a black and white issue. I see both sides. I know when I'm taking a dump I don't care if some lady dressed like a man comes in. But I still see them as ladies. I know if my daughter was in a bathroom, and some dude dressed like a lady tried to go into the womens bathroom, I might threaten to punch him in the face if he wasn't willing to wait for my daughter to come out first.

Life is tricky sometimes. Their is no right answer to this.

I also see both sides so I agree on that much.

But I'm not sure I can agree there's no right answer. What's wrong with unisex bathrooms?

im not sure how i feel about unisex bathrooms for schools.
there are ladies that may not want to be going to the bathroom and handling their womanly monthly issues with the boys around....

know what i mean?

i would not expect my daughter to be a young teen and have to deal with handling her monthly business with the boys around. stall or no.

and yes, kids pick on other kids.
boys pick on girls. girls pick on boys.

i dont need some asshole boy following my daughter into the unisex bathroom to mess with her while she is in a stall trying to do her thing.
im less worried about the 1 in however many thousand transgender kids than i am worried about all the other kids and all the other reasons they may not feel comfortable or safe.

you know, some boys pick on the fat girl cause she is fat. or ugly. or has braces........i dont need the bathroom to be another place for that boy to follow my daughter...
remember, the whole feeling safe thing?

so there is that

originally posted by: Grovit
im not sure how i feel about unisex bathrooms for schools.
there are ladies that may not want to be going to the bathroom and handling their womanly monthly issues with the boys around....

know what i mean?

i would not expect my daughter to be a young teen and have to deal with handling her monthly business with the boys around. stall or no.

She would still have options at these Dutch High Schools implementing unisex bathrooms now:

Unisex Bathrooms in Dutch High Schools

Unisex-bathrooms in highschools

Hundreds of highschools in the Netherlands will be equipped iwth unixsex bathrooms this coming wednesday. With this action, the Dutch Gay-Straight Alliance Netwwork (GSA) and Transgender Network of the Netherlands will try to raise awareness for the problems transgender teens face.
"Being transgender means choosing, each day, whether to use the boys- or the girlsbathroom" says trangender Laurens (18). " Many transgenders experience such fear, that they will hold of and only releive themselves when they get home." It would be preferable if there were toilets for everyone."

Students will post special stickers on schoolbathrooms, this wednesday, to elaborate which toilets will be availble for who; for boys, girls and for anyone who isn't sure (yet). The stickers will show different persons, depending on the target group: a boy, a girl or both.

The goal of this action is not to force everyone to use unisex/the same bathroom. COC's GSA Network and TNN propose that at the very least there's more than one singular bathroom for eveyone. "Otherwise you'd have a special bathroom for transgenders and that's even more troublesome for transgender teens." says the COC.
"The ideal balance would be 1/3 boys bathrooms, 1/3 girls and 1/3 for eveyone."

Sounds like a solution to me, and they aren't building new bathrooms, just applying stickers, so it's pretty easy also.

Unisex bathrooms also address the intersex issue where psychological issues aside, the biological gender of the person is not clearly 100% male nor 100% female.

i dont understand the article cause of this

Students will post special stickers on schoolbathrooms, this wednesday, to elaborate which toilets will be availble for who; for boys, girls and for anyone who isn't sure (yet). The stickers will show different persons, depending on the target group: a boy, a girl or both.

^^^^separate toilet does not equal separate bathroom.

either way though. i dont have any issue with unisex bathrooms in schools in addition to the boy/girl bathrooms.

i am not in favor of unisex only for reasons i mentioned.

i dont need my daughter being forced to do what she needs to do while some asshole boy who likes to pick on her is in the next stall.

in the end though, there is a good chance my daughter will never see a public school anyway for other reasons

originally posted by: Grovit
i dont understand the article cause of this

Students will post special stickers on schoolbathrooms, this wednesday, to elaborate which toilets will be availble for who; for boys, girls and for anyone who isn't sure (yet). The stickers will show different persons, depending on the target group: a boy, a girl or both.

^^^^separate toilet does not equal separate bathroom.

Maybe someone who reads Dutch can come up with a better translation since that may not be an exact translation from the original article in Dutch. I think it means separate bathrooms. I also remember from my French lessons that les toilettes can translate to the following:

bathroom, washroom, restroom, lavatory

originally posted by: mikeone718
This will be my excuse, going forward, to gain access to the girl's bathroom.

And I thought I was having a bad day

Great. Get started on hormone replacement therapy and when you have felt the full effects of that you tell us how well your plan went.

After all when done you will lose strength and muscle mass, grow breasts, you penis will no longer be able to get a complete erection and will more then likely shrink as well, you will no longer be able to produce sperm and very little ejaculation, you will become far more emotional; with a tendency to cry more at silly little things and not to mention your sex drive will completely change since the majority of the male sex drive is testosterone driven and you will find that you don't have that driving need for release.

Now are you telling me you want to go through all that just to get in a bathroom to spy and perv on women. I doubt it I doubt anyone but people who really are transgendered would bother and any man taking hormone replacement therapy to do so would shoot themselves in the foot because the need that drove them would be dissipated as well.

Sounds like a great plan.....totally legit.

Race is not gender.

Sex is not gender.

These are basically accepted scientific facts.

Being transgender is not as simple as "feeling like" your biological sex assignment is wrong.

There are a constellation of causes, some physical, for transgender identification.


**********
Those are the basic facts. They are not "opinions" or "beliefs" or "what I think."

Further discussion is going to be fruitless unless those basic criteria are accepted, in my opinion.

Otherwise, you're just arguing semantics.