Transgender girl awarded $75,000 in lawsuit over school bathroom access

originally posted by: Grovit

originally posted by: rubbertramp
a reply to: American-philosopher

before using the girls room, should a transgender boy be evaluated professionally?
diagnosed as transgender.
is showing up to school in a dress, with or without the parents knowledge, all that should be needed?

sorry, but sometimes i struggle explaining myself.

people in this thread were arguing privacy and self esteem and such.

so, what is the criteria? i mean if a boy has to be evaluated and answer questions, wont that hurt his poor feelings?

im struggling just to understand this whole deal.

I don't think you're struggling at all, because every point of this has been explained to you in great detail over and over.

I believe you're feigning an attempt to "understand" to allow you to continue to avoid speaking your mind. It's quite obvious from your repeated denigrative language (e.g. "his poor feelings") that you have formed your opinion, and that opinion is that all this "transgender stuff" is just misrepresentation and confusion.

Right? Why not come out and say it and leave the coyness behind?

originally posted by: Gryphon66



It's not a "feeling" or a "phase" or "something you get over."

im not saying it is always something you can get over but are you saying it is never something you get over?

whats with the link(not from you) a few pages about about regrets after reassignment surgery?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

I don't think you're struggling at all, because every point of this has been explained to you in great detail over and over.

I believe you're feigning an attempt to "understand" to allow you to continue to avoid speaking your mind. It's quite obvious from your repeated denigrative language "his poor feelings" that you have formed your opinion, and that opinion is that all this "transgender stuff" is just misrepresentation and confusion.

Right? Why not come out and say it and leave the coyness behind?

think what you want. stop responding then and let other people discuss this with me.
it has been explained in detail and i still dont understand. i have a few links up right now, one being the link you just posted about standards of care though it seems it is just a link to buy a book.
im trying to understand, i just dont...not right now
youre way off about me avoiding speaking my mind.
i always speak my mind. i say what i feel.
you dont have to believe that and if you dont, thats on you.

my opinion is that i dont understand and i am trying to.
im not saying it is misrepresentation and confsion...never said that once.
i am asking 'could it be' confusion?
i mean people do have opinions and you are not the authority on this matter.

feel free to stop responding to me at any time...i will be here discussing this until i decide to move on.

i always say what i feel.
so, if im not saying something its cause i dont feel it.

so again, feel free to move right along and take your gut feelings about me right along with you.

and i said poor feelings and not just feelings cause i am a smart ass. i said that because wind made comments about her feelings and self esteem and her feeling safe.

a reply to: Grovit

I'm not the one speaking in absolutes. There is no way to make any kind of cogent specific statement about thousands of people in a few simple sentences. Each individual is different, each individual changes over time, and who can say (I cannot) how someone else should have to live their lives?

I personally am not interested in that level of control over other people.

Discontent with one's results I would think is because reassignment surgery is a partial solution, at best. We do not yet have the capacity (and even if we did most folks can't afford it) to truly or completely reassign sex to humans. It involves a lot of pain, a lot of recovery and a lot of adjustment.

Here's the point though. None of the issues faced by trans* folk are merely spur-of-the-moment. Years of therapy is usually required even to begin hormonal treatments. Sex reassignment surgery is an even bigger hurdle. Every step is taken, ethically, medically, and psychologically, to make CERTAIN that these steps are truly in line with someone's most genuine identity.

a reply to: Grovit

Thanks for your invitation to depart, but I think I'll stay right here and participate in the discussion as I see fit in terms of the site's T&C.

Okay, speak your mind to this then: do you understand that someone can truly be one gender and be embodied in the opposite sex?

originally posted by: Gryphon66


Okay, speak your mind to this then: do you think that someone can truly be one gender and be embodied in the opposite sex?

yes. i think they can. i am just struggling to understand it.
maybe it is something i will never understand....

edit
changed my mind.
i dont explain myself

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Thanks for your invitation to depart, but I think I'll stay right here and participate in the discussion as I see fit in terms of the site's T&C.

great. have at it.
i will also discuss as i see fit.
i was not telling you to leave the thread and stop discussing this. you have as much right as me.

i just meant if you think im such a liar and really feel this way or that, then leave me alone...
thats what i meant.

youre not the supreme authority on this and my opinions are just as valid to this discussion as yours.

i do however seem to be the one not throwing out accusations to people and calling them names but whatever

a reply to: Grovit

Have I called you a name? No.

Have I accused you of anything? No.

Opinions are not all equal, Grovit, I'm sorry.

Facts are what matters. You repeatedly ask for facts, you are provided with the facts, and then you repeat the same questions you had before you were provided with the facts.

You say now that you are trying to understand for yourself what the trans* question is all about.

That's a different matter.

I saw someone above describing a trans* person as "a man in a dress."

Of course, that's not an apt description of a trans* person; that's a description of a drag queen or a cross-dresser (or a gender illusionist).

If you are really trying to understand FOR YOURSELF ... we'd have to find someway in which you find yourself to be DIFFERENT from the social norms or "average person."

Do you have anything like that that you are willing to discuss with us? Something about yourself that doesn't quite "fit"?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Do you have anything like that that you are willing to discuss with us? Something about yourself that doesn't quite "fit"?

close as i can get is i am a bit of a misanthrope. im an introvert.
i dont like to be around people in real life and i do most of my interactions online.

i was diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder a couple years ago.
dont know if its correct as i never followed up..seems to fit how i have been my entire life though.

thats about all i got.

now, you didnt call me any names but so far in this thread i have been called a bigot and been called stupid.
youve done a bit of the ole "well i have a feeling you feel blah blah blah so but dont want to say" crap though.

i always say what i feel. know that

i said my opinion is as valid as yours meaning i have just as much right to be here discussing this as you, despite what you feel and what you think i feel

and i know it is more than a boy in a dress.

my brother in law used to go to school wearing a dress. no gender identity there. he was just trying to make people look at him and get a reaction cause he is a giant dick...still is a giant dick too

a reply to: Grovit

Well, for the record, I don't think you're a bigot or that you're stupid.

I think you've got some pretty clear ideas about what "being a boy" and "being a girl" mean.

In light of what other people experience, as well as in consideration of where modern medicine, psychology and even sociology set their definitions, for the great majority of people, you are correct.

But not for everyone. Some people are actually born in different degrees of being intersex. This means that their body ("the plumbing") is simply not strictly male or female. Hormonal levels (which comprise our sexual appearance, behavior and even identity) vary a great deal between individuals. So, even physically speaking (sex) we are considering a spectrum of values not just "one or the other" extreme ends.

You're an introvert. Good. Statistically speaking about 1/4 of the population is introverted and 3/4 are extroverted.

These terms come to us (at least in a fulsome understanding) from Dr. Carl Jung.

Would you be surprised to find out that he started his research to find a way to "cure" introverts? We were considered to be socially malfunctioning at certain points.

Now, to understand how this might feel for a trans* person ... Let's imagine that I have some sort of radio-controlled bomb in your head and I force you (with a threat of literally blowing your mind), tomorrow, to go be in large groups of people you don't know all the time, and introduce yourself and interact with them. I don't care how uncomfortable it makes you feel, I don't care how unnatural it seems to be outgoing, or how nervous being in those crowds might make you, or how much you need some "alone time" just to let your head clear out ... because, you know what?

Most people are extroverts. Normal people are extroverts. If you don't like being around people, and talking to them, and interacting with them, making new friends daily ... then you're not normal.

I'm going to help you (via the imaginary radio-controlled bomb in your head) to become a better functioning member of society. Because, you know, that's how people are "supposed to be."

....

....

Does that help make any more sense to you about the way trans* folks may feel, everyday?

originally posted by: Gryphon66


I think you've got some pretty clear ideas about what "being a boy" and "being a girl" mean.



Now, to understand how this might feel for a trans* person ... Let's imagine that I have some sort of radio-controlled bomb in your head and I force you (with a threat of literally blowing your mind), tomorrow, to go be in large groups of people you don't know all the time, and introduce yourself and interact with them. I don't care how uncomfortable it makes you feel, I don't care how unnatural it seems to be outgoing, or how nervous being in those crowds might make you, or how much you need some "alone time" just to let your head clear out ... because, you know what?



Does that help make any more sense to you about the way trans* folks may feel, everyday?

yeah, it helps. i would not be able to handle it. i would probably wind up beating someone to death. i just couldnt take it.

i knew it was more than a boy in a dress type deal but i did not know that it was basically torture.

what causes is it then?
is it a hormone thing? too much of this and not enough of that chemical type of deal?

has it anything to do with the parents?

in the article it said that she was identifying with female from as early as when she was 2 years old. im struggling with that as well.
my daughter is two right now.

she loves to be pretty like mom. loves her lippie stick(thats what she calls chap stick) and loves to wear her pink hello kitty boots. the flip to that though is she loves monster trucks...im talking loves them..she loves the hulk and spider man and i swear her favorite thing in the word is 'scoopin trucks'
a scoopin truck is any crane, skid steer, excavator....

im not freaking out cause she is playing with 'boy toys'....its a toy, you know

before she was born my wife and i used to walk around the toy store and look at the toys..all the awesome stuff in the boys section and all the lame # in the girls section.
you know, fake food and easy bake ovens...

we used to talk to each other about why is a little girl expected to play cooking and cleaning and expected not to play awesome action figures?

im having a hard time explaining what i mean......hopefully you catch my drift.

at 2 years old how much of the parents 'teaching' has to do with a child that young identifying with the opposite sex? im wondering that too.

its hard to wrap my head around....feeling that much inner turmoil as to not even identify with your 'parts'