Islam or Jesus - Which one?!?!

originally posted by: Rtardx
a reply to: Sahabi

Woah, them sounds like fightin words. Hope a muslim doesn't read this, but i do agree with you about the religious superiority complex. "We're the world's fastest growing religion"!! As if that's some sort of proof, their's is the the right one.

I did not write out of offense. According to the Qur'an, the Sunnah ( Muhammad's example), the Seerah (Muhammad's biography), and the academic historic record, my words are true.

• Jesus lead his disciples in love, peace, non-violence, forgiveness, loving enemies, and blessing those who curse you. Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers and rejected an offer to become ruler of the world.

• Buddha lead his disciples in compassion, peace, non-violence, and transcending the roots of inner and outer negativity and suffering. Buddha taught freedom from worldly attachments and rejected many offers to rule kingdoms.

• Genghis Khan established a political and military system to rule over an empire, gain wealth, riches, territory, and power.

• Alexander the Great established a political and military system to rule over an empire, gain wealth, riches, territory, and power.

• Muhammad first taught non-violence, peace, respect, and passive suffering for the Higher Good while in Mecca. After he gained authority in Medina, he established a political and military system to rule over an empire, gain wealth, riches, territory, and power. Muhammad orchestrated caravan robberies, utilized espionage, launched preemptive military operations, and ordered unprovoked military attacks based upon suspicions and rumors. As he expanded his territory through war, Muhammad had people beheaded, enslaved, expelled, and forcibly converted. He collected war booty, tributes from the conquered, and taxes upon the assimilated.

It's not like humans don't try to justify themselves even when they may be in the wrong .I am thinking that the courts take lying under oath very very serious under any circumstance .I am thinking that God would be a much better judge about things pertaining to sin then man ever could . a reply to: windword

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Why should a little child have to justify themselves? Perhaps because they're afraid of some primal rejection? Why did Adam and Eve lie to God? Fear of some primal rejection?

Did God punish them for lying? Were their fears justified?

Bottom line, I don't believe in sin, but as Christians, I don't understand how you can say that God ignores the sins of children, when I don't think they CAN sin, by Christian standards.

Also, I don't understand why Christians think the "lying" in general is a sin. Now, Bearing False Witness is like lying in court, setting your neighbor up for something they didn't do. That's whole 'nother ball of wax, in my opinion.

a reply to: windword

committing a "sin" without being old enough to realize that you did something more than just make your parents upset, is not punishable - ie" God does not see this as sin.

You seem ready to throw every 2 year old in hell for throwing a temper tantrum! Do you not know that Jesus said "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

I think Jesus said it all concerning HIS stance on children. Stop wishing hell for them.. you ARE old enough to know right from wrong.

My kids lied cheated stole and were cruel to one another . Have you wondered why we try to teach them to tell the truth ? One of the first words that come out of their moths is no . We don't teach them to lie because lying is not good .Being truthful is good . Even after we learn that lying is not good we will lie when we get older .It matters not what you think or what I think but what God says .Unless if you think it's a free for all and there is no such thing as sin . Have at it , you have a free will to do so .You may even get away with breaking laws of man but I hardly doubt that you can pull one over on a God that sees all and knows all .


a reply to: windword

a reply to: OpinionatedB

committing a "sin" without being old enough to realize that you did something more than just make your parents upset, is not punishable - ie" God does not see this as sin.

Then, in that case, the child is NOT committing a sine, right?

You seem ready to throw every 2 year old in hell for throwing a temper tantrum! Do you not know that Jesus said "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

I think Jesus said it all concerning HIS stance on children. Stop wishing hell for them.. you ARE old enough to know right from wrong.

You are completely misrepresenting my argument, which is children can't sin, even by Christian standards, so stop calling what children do "SIN".

And talking down to me like I'm the child, isn't helping your case either.

There's this little Christian thing called "Original Sin" that makes everybody guilty and a sinner, even though children can't sin. Everybody, according to Christians, is in need of salvation from "Original Sin". There is reason that Catholics baptize babies, you know.

Reposted for you understanding:

a reply to: the2ofusr1

What society sees as wrong is not necessarily "sin". Honesty is double edged sword. If we all could be completely honest we'd be telepathic. What scary thought, huh, others being able to read your mind! What a violation!

We teach our children to lie all the time. To be polite and be "politically correct", to hold their tongues and answer questions correctly, not honestly. Society doesn't value honesty.

Children of religious families are taught blind obedience and blind faith, which translates later in life to intellectual dishonesty. I know, I was there!

a reply to: windword

No the child is not sinning, the child is learning right from wrong. What the Catholics do is their own ideas - its not taught in the bible to baptize children.

Yes, there is original sin. Basically, we are all in a state of being sinners. From the best of us to the worst of us we have all sinned.

Sin, is a human trait. GOD, is perfect and without sin. Essentially, He is so pure, that nothing even a tiny bit tainted with sin can be near to him - the taint creates a barrier to being near to GOD because without that barrier, the absolute purity would kill us, because of the taint in us.

Basically what Jesus is, is a purifier. He has the ability to purify US, in order that we may be near to GOD. We are not good, we are not holy - but HE is, and when we accept HIM into our heart, and allow HIM to purify our heart, we then have the ability to be in a relationship with God - because of HE who is INSIDE us - who - by his presence, purifies us.

Then we are able to go to heaven, because we are purified beings. Thus, having now the ability to stand in the presence of the one who is completely pure. If any impurity was inside of us, we could not be in heaven, it would cause us to die, the purity of GOD is that pure.

But Jesus is not only pure, but one who purifies. So HIM inside of us, HIM purifying us, changes us..

To better explain why something impure, or that has impurity (which we call sin) cannot be around something absolutely pure... would be to compare it to two chemical substances that cannot be mixed.

For example:

Hydrogen peroxide/sulfuric acid mixtures may spontaneously detonate - except with us and God, it would be us spontaneously detonating, should we be in HIS presence.

Jesus through his pure life, and subsequent death, became able to purify that which is tainted. US. And thus, when we invite HIM inside of our hearts, and allow HIM to do the work of purifying us, we ourselves become pure.

1 Corinthians 1:30
Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

No the child is not sinning, the child is learning right from wrong.

I don't believe that children NEED to be taught right from wrong. We are all (most of us anyway) born with a moral compass and empathy.

I understand that what you posted is what YOU believe. But I'm not buying it.

Christianity teaches that ALL of mankind is corrupt, including little babies. I think it's a morally flawed outlook on hope and humanity.

a reply to: windword

You don't have to believe anything. God gave everyone free will. No one is forcing you anywhere.

If you don't want to be around HIM now, then it would be a punishment to force you to heaven and be in HIS presence for all of eternity.

So.. HE gave us the choice. Its a free choice.

Live your life, have a good life. Do as you please. No one is forcing you anywhere or to anything.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

If you don't want to be around HIM now...........

I don't suppose you're aware of how condescending you come across? But thanks for the reprieve.

a reply to: windword

Its not in the least bit condescending.

If you want to be around HIM right now... you can. Just ask HIM. Not a person, not me, not anyone else but HIM.

If you don't know HIM personally... its not anyone's fault but your own. So no.. its not condescending in the least to say that. I am simply being honest.

a reply to: windword

As a beside..

Don't expect an instant hey looky here. He will begin guiding you though, and in time, however long it takes you to understand in your heart, true understanding, you will find HIM. You will find your answers.

HE will tell you. Just ask.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Who are you to say who does or doesn't know "HIM"? You think that your experience/path is the one and only revelation of truth? Just because you identify with a biblical archetype doesn't mean you have the keys to the "Son of Man", the "LOGOS" the "Divine Spark" or the or have a handle on the Wheel of Spiritual Good Fortune!

Yes, your rhetoric is condescending, arrogant, passive aggressive and typical of "Holier Than Thou" religious folk that figure they got the ticket.

a reply to: windword


If you believe you know HIM, then more power to you. Have a wonderful life! No one is forcing you to anything.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Wow, that is so awesome!

Can't wait to read your book.

So many Muslims seem to be having similar experiences.

A Google Search turns up thousands...

You would probably enjoy reading Esther Gulshan's book "The Torn Veil"...

"I won’t let you die. I am Jesus, son of Mary."

Esther Gulshan is a Pakistani Muslim woman who has cried out to Jesus for 3 years to get healed from her handicap. Jesus appeared to her with a powerful shining light and since then a long and beautiful travel has begun...

Esther Gulshan was healed and set free by Jesus Christ HIMSELF!

When Esther Gulshan, a devout Muslim girl, was six months old, typhoid left her a cripple. Her loving father took her from Pakistan to England to find a cure, but the only hope the British specialist could offer was prayer. Gulshan and her father made a pilgrimage to Mecca and begged Allah for healing, but it was not until her father’s untimely death that Gulshan began to receive an answer. In her grief she wanted to die, but as she called out to God, for the first time in her life she sensed she was being heard. She heard a low, gentle voice say, "I won’t let you die. I will keep you alive "I am Jesus, son of Mary."

As Gulshan began reading the Qur'an, her interest in Jesus grew, until one amazing night he appeared to her in her bedroom in a blaze of light. He restored her crippled arm and leg and taught her The Lord’s Prayer. He told her to go to his people—now her people—and tell them what he had done. Since that time, and to this day, she has been a joyous, obedient disciple of Christ.

Video playlist
The Torn Veil

Esther's Vision of Jesus and Twelve Angels

In her book Esther reports that beginning after her father's death when she was 16 years old, she began to hear the voice of Jesus, encouraging her to read about Him in the Qur'an. At the age of 19 she says she had a vision of Jesus and twelve other radiant beings in her bedroom at 3am, just before morning prayers. At that time her limbs were instantly and completely healed. At the same time He healed her, Esther recounts that Jesus said, "What you have seen now with your eyes you must take to my people," then he taught her The Lord's Prayer and told her one more time before departing, "I want you to be my witness." As a result of her healing, Esther immediately became a local celebrity.

Later, in light of some hostility from Muslims who didn't like her testimony that Jesus had healed her, Esther began to wonder why He was considered an unimportant or peripheral character by Muslims. She further began to question why, if Jesus could heal the sick and raise the dead, was he considered less important than Mohammed, who could not perform these feats.

The True Story of Esther Gulshan

Praying all night in the mosque, he asked God to help him. Suddenly he felt drops of oil falling on him and even smelled its fragrance, he says. He claims another time he heard an audible voice telling him to read a Bible—an abomination to a Muslim. “We would not touch a modern-day Bible,” he says. “This voice immediately put a desire in my heart. It is so vivid, so clear, so overwhelming. Still today, I could not forget that voice.”

For example, one man in a nation hostile to Christianity says he heard a voice telling him, “Find Jesus, find the gospel.” He didn’t know what Jesus was—a chair, a tree, an animal? But the voice told him exactly what city and house to go to, so he traveled for two weeks, arriving directly at the door of one of only three believers in the city.

Why Revival is Exploding Among Muslims

Khalil was a sholar who was asked to research the Bible, so he could convince others about its fault. (he was forced to do the research, he didn't like to touch the bible.)

"A radical Islamic terrorist from Egypt changed from a murderous "Saul" to a forgiving "Paul" after Jesus Christ visited him in a soul-penetrating dream. This hater of both Christians and Jews set out to discredit the Bible, but instead, he was transformed when Jesus appeared to him and changed his heart."

"In a dream, he saw a man, who came to him and told him that he was the one for whom Khalil had been searching. Khalil didn’t know who the man was. The man told him to look in the Book (the Bible). Khalil said the Book and all his papers were lost, to which the man replied, “The book never gets lost. Get up and open your closet and you will find it. The rest of your papers will be returned to you by the end of the week.”

"Khalil woke up from the dream and opened his closet. His very own copy of the Bible was inside the closet on a shelf."

Muslim Encounters with Jesus

And I remember thinking man it's up to me, if I am going to ever get to Heaven, I would have to prove that I am worthy of Heaven. Then one night I met Jesus. I remember him standing there and forever changing my perception of who God was, who I would be and how my life would play out, it changed evrything about me... Naeem Fazal

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I have no desire to "know" the biblical "HIM".

a reply to: Murgatroid

I'll certainly read it! Thanks for the videos! Cool..

a reply to: OpinionatedB

'More Than Dreams' is another awesome video I forgot to mention that you and others might enjoy...

Mohammed. Mohammed of northern Nigeria did not have just one dream of Jesus Christ—he had seven! Son of a prominent Fulani herdsman, Mohammed had studied the Qur’an in depth at several Muslim schools and was preparing to leave for advanced studies in Saudi Arabia when he experienced the series of dreams that convinced him of the deep love and lordship of Jesus Christ. Although his father tried to kill him in the wake of his conversion, Mohammed survived the various attempts on his life and persevered in his Christian walk, eventually leading his father to faith in Christ.

Muslims Coming to Christ Through Dreams and Visions

In the last dream (dream #9), Mohammed was sitting under a tree reading books that he couldn’t understand. The man in white (Jesus) was sitting beside him. He asked Mohammed what he was reading and Mohammed told him that he was trying to acquire knowledge. Jesus asked Mohammed if he wanted help and told him that he could show him specific things to read. Jesus took a book and said, “This book comes from the Lord and it has the message of God inside of it. In this book, I will show you verses which will help you.”

Jesus read scriptures to Mohammed, including John 14:6, which says, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” He explained this to Mohammed and told him that He was the way and the Savior of the world. Jesus also told him that he would face many trials after becoming a Christian. He told Mohammed He wanted to be his Savior and explained that He was the man in Mohammed’s dreams, the man who had rescued him. When Jesus told Mohammed he wanted to give him salvation, and asked, “Do you accept?” Mohammed said yes and Jesus disappeared.

morethandreams.org...

a reply to: Murgatroid

Wow.. that makes me want to cry! I feel so much less weird now! Do you know what it is like to feel like no one will be able to understand you, and everyone will think something is wrong with your head - when all the while you know it is more real than your nose? HAHAHA

I'm so glad I am not the only one!