Islam or Jesus - Which one?!?!

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: methuselah969

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: methuselah969

Here's where my BS meter starts ticking. Prophecy is feeble, untidy thing.

From sources like Nostradamus...Certainly! But the prophecy in the Bible is crazy specific.

All of these prophecies about the Messiah...

...almost like some people got together and wrote the Gospels to fit the prophecies.

*blink*

You were to think because it is that accurate, Right?!?! But everyone of the prophecies in that video have been found on manuscripts that we KNOW are WAY BEFORE the time of Jesus. all 8 of those prophecies found predate Jesus by 100's if not a 1000 years. They are from the Old Testament, Not the Gospels!

originally posted by: Rtardx
a reply to: AgentShillington

No no no buddy, Let's see shall we....My pajamas where made by fabric designers, my water was made by nature,ny internet was made by that one old dude who's probably up to no good, and so on. Has nothing to do with mainstream scientist. Anyway, my beef is not with science, but with mainstream scientist who's claims, when accepted by the listener, affects the listeners perspective on reality and thus turns him into an Athiest.

Pal, I've been down that road, Atheism, and I'll tell you now...NO..DIDDLY DAMN WAY! Your offer would only be applicable and logical to accept if I had: 1. Supernatural Intelligence and 2.All the scientific resources in the world 3. My Own laboratory with its own complimentary white lab coat, witty sophisticated articulate pet monkey with a British accent, and a cup of cocoa.

Whoa.

Nevermind. Seriously. I retract my offer. We don't want you. Yes, I speak for all of us.

originally posted by: methuselah969

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: methuselah969

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: methuselah969

Here's where my BS meter starts ticking. Prophecy is feeble, untidy thing.

From sources like Nostradamus...Certainly! But the prophecy in the Bible is crazy specific.

All of these prophecies about the Messiah...

...almost like some people got together and wrote the Gospels to fit the prophecies.

*blink*

You were to think because it is that accurate, Right?!?! But everyone of the prophecies in that video have been found on manuscripts that we KNOW are WAY BEFORE the time of Jesus. all 8 of those prophecies found predate Jesus by 100's if not a 1000 years.

Right... the prophecies are accurate to Jesus because the people that were writing about Jesus made him fit the prophecies of Torah. The Gospels were written to fulfill the prophecies of Torah.

ETA

The Torah talks about the Messiah. These are the prophecies you are talking about. What we know of Jesus comes from The Gospels. The Gospels were written to evidence the claim that Jesus was the Messiah. The Gospels were written with foreknowledge of the Torah prophecies, so the authors of the Gospels could tailor their stories about Jesus to fit the prophecies of Torah.

That is why the prophecies fit, The authors of the Gospels MADE them fit.

a reply to: Rtardx

You seem to be confusing the media and scientists here. Yes we are human. Yes we evolved from other creatures.

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: methuselah969

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: methuselah969

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: methuselah969

Here's where my BS meter starts ticking. Prophecy is feeble, untidy thing.

From sources like Nostradamus...Certainly! But the prophecy in the Bible is crazy specific.

All of these prophecies about the Messiah...

...almost like some people got together and wrote the Gospels to fit the prophecies.

*blink*

You were to think because it is that accurate, Right?!?! But everyone of the prophecies in that video have been found on manuscripts that we KNOW are WAY BEFORE the time of Jesus. all 8 of those prophecies found predate Jesus by 100's if not a 1000 years.

Right... the prophecies are accurate to Jesus because the people that were writing about Jesus made him fit the prophecies of Torah. The Gospels were written to fulfill the prophecies of Torah.

That may seem plausible aside from the 10's of thousands of Jews who converted to Christianity and died horrible deaths as martyrs. They lived at the time of Jesus. Many were Eye witnesses...Would you die for something you knew was a lie?

I believe the video says something along the lines of: What if I tried to tell you today that JFK was killed by a crossbow in FL? - It would never work because there are still so many people who were alive and witnessed the event. It would never work...Same idea. Now imagine that time a million with the spread of Christianity

Alright, it's been fun, but it's my bed time

originally posted by: Rex282
a reply to: Rtardx

The doom porn of religion is NOT truth.The creator God is not the “convoluted crazy monster” religions paints.There is no great coming cataclysmic “apocalypse”(apocalypse which means unveiling) by the creator God to “destroy” the earth and mankind.There are no “sides” to choose to be safe.The world/physical realm doesn’t function that way.

There is no judgement of “eternal heaven or eternal punishment hell” depending on your religious beliefs.The fact is ALL of mankind WILL(not presently in this age) be delivered/saved from Hades(which means the realm of death and imperception).It will be 100% the action of the creator God with ZERO input from you or anyone else.In other words you can do NOTHING to save yourself it is all “being” done TO you not by you through religious belief or ANY method of man.

My suggestion is live your life according to your nature and character(your name)because …..that is all you can do.You have ZERO to fear of the creator God.They are not your enemy. Your greatest enemy can be (and is for most) the person in the mirror when they live in fear.

This is your answer OP.
A voice of reason.

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

Indeed, and how soothing and comforting words were for the time being as I read them. Too bad he hasn't provided anything to back up words.

a reply to: Rtardx

If the info I posted had absolutely anything at all to do with the new age, I would have never posted it.

Are you serious about finding the truth?

If so you need to ditch the preconceived ideals about what truth is actually supposed to look like...

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
God doesn't lie either - but he veils the truth from those who consider themselves wise in their own eyes. Finding the truth is a matter of humility and the acceptance of our need for grace (nobody can be counted pure in the eyes of God... Perseverance in seeking the person of God is the key. If we knock, the door will be opened. After that, it's just a matter of time until he 'leads us into all truth' by the power of His Spirit.

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
The nature of the Truth is that not everyone hears it. The proof of God is everywhere. Creation itself is proof. Knowing the Truth and proclaiming it is not pride. I can provide evidence, which I already have, but proof is something that comes from God.

The truth is either God revealed the truth or He didn't. The truth is you have been given the ability to seek the truth. Where there is smoke... Me, I know because I spent years seeking. My God has revealed Himself to me. He does that after you seek Him. He does it because He said He would. You can't know if I am telling the truth, though. That is because God designed your reality so that it is up to you, personally, to seek the truth. If you hear it, and believe it, you will seek God. And then you will know what I know.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
You are an open-minded sort of person, by the look of things! A rare thing in these days and times. I would advise you to pray a simple prayer, and see what happens. Test it out! Simply say: ''God, if you are real, would you reveal yourself to me in some way. I want to know the Truth...''

That's what I did ten years ago, and the very next day someone walked past me in the street, before stopping, turning back and pointing to me. She said: '"You've been praying. God answers prayer. Come with me...'' She was prompted by the still, small voice of calm, the voice of God's own Spirit, who lives with all believers, to be an intermediary between me and God, to prove His existence, so that I could answer the call of God, to give my life to Him.

I came to faith in Christ through her talking with me, and since that day God has shown me a thousand things that I would have no natural way of knowing. He does so in order to help us in real, practical and spiritual ways, and to help others to come to know Him. He desires for you to walk with Him, and to know His voice, and to bless your life in a million different ways.

Take it or leave it - but I hope you take it, in faith. Ask, and you will receive. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and the door will be opened to you. Don't bother with 'Droidus the spirit guide' (or others like him) - he has no answers for anyone; not even those who are devoted to him. God Himself will be your guide.

The Bible tells us that if we DILIGENTLY seek God, that He will reveal Himself to us. So have at it! Just say "God if you are real, SHOW ME!" Say it out loud, and be patient and DILIGENT - Do it each day diligently and persistently until He shows up. It won't be God the Father, but it will be either Jesus or an angel who will appear to you or you will hear His voice - either in your spirit or audible. He will do it in His timing, not yours, so be persistent and diligent and patient!

www.youtube.com...

Book of Johnboy 12:32
And Bob did giveth him a woman, plump and lovely. She was very horny.
And Bob did say "Doeth thou which must be done."
Put aside thou shotgun and lieth down thy blade.
This is the time I have set aside for thee to make sweet lovin'.
And it was so.

a reply to: Rtardx

I don't know how you came to those two options...

Jesus has nothing to do with Islam... I mean the religion was created 600+ years after his death, yet they claim to know more about him then people that actually saw the man...

Anyways... Look up the word Gehenna... which is the word HE used... it wasn't Hell

that should help you cure your fear of said imaginary place...

Other then that just read the gospels... they will clarify everything you need to know

originally posted by: Rtardx
a reply to: akushla99

Indeed, and how soothing and comforting words were for the time being as I read them. Too bad he hasn't provided anything to back up words.

Glad you are 'soothed'...

What would you like? More words? Words from dead men, you can't challenge on the interwebs?

It's words that have confuddled the masses...with more words, words of fear, words of death and everlasting hellfire...words with numbers before them, words of madmen living thier life out on a deserted prison...words of imams...words of popes eager to impress thier austerity while sitting on the throne of a city - the worth of which cannot be counted...

Be soothed...there is no hellfire...there is no hell from a loving creator...there is no adversary...there is you, me and all us other splinters of Source asking itself the questions we are entitled to ask, comfort we are entitled to give, simple truth we are able to impart...

Back what up?

Å99

originally posted by: Rtardx
To be honest, It's my fear of hell and missing out on heaven driving me in my theological research. And since I'm no sherlock holmes, I have nothing to rely on but faith. Or I could become sherlock holmes, and not have to rely on faith, but by the time i became sherlock holmes i might've ran out of time!

That my friend is called Pascal's Wager.

As far as fear goes, here is a nice little litany against it:

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Theism is not rational. Don't take that to mean there is nothing to be learned or gained by some of the teachings to be found in some of the various religions. For example, just because I am an atheist doesn't mean I think teachings like "do unto others as you would have done unto" aren't worth living by. As for the fear based aspects such as Hell.. well Hell isn't what they all try to tell you it is (everlasting torment). I bring it up occasionally on this site and as of yet nobody has disputed it. So if fear of burning forever is the driving force behind your search for something, well fear no more. Hell Know!

You'll find that prophecy isn't as clear cut as they'd like you to think as well. There are plenty of failed prophecies in the Bible, and good reasons to think others were made to fit after the fact. You will find these countered with lame apologetic reasoning but to the unbiased observer they are seen for what they are. Failed Biblical Prophecies

Of course I always like to point out God's moral fiber, or lack thereof. Let's just say he is morally bankrupt and if you want to know more of my thoughts on that I've outlined them in a thread (in my sig). I could make the Bible a better book right now, by adding a passage prohibiting slavery for example.

The history of the scriptures etc. also call into question their validity as far as divinely inspired goes. The majority of the claims within are either improbable or flat out impossible! Of course they say nothing is impossible when you have an omnipotent omniscient God capable of anything.. but that's a paradox now isn't it? Can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it?

If you're interested, spend some time learning how logic and reason win out every time when it comes to theism. The Atheist Experience is a show you can watch or listen to where people call in and explain what they believe and why. You'll come to realize the only real evidence anyone has for their beliefs is entirely subjective.

Check out some of Aron Ra's YouTube videos or playlists as well. There is some good stuff there in my opinion.

Keep searching, don't close yourself off because you're afraid it will be too late or something like that. Whatever you decide to do it sounds like it will be a life changing decision (more or less potentially). Think it through and don't rush into anything.



ETA:

originally posted by: Rtardx
Pal, I've been down that road, Atheism, and I'll tell you now...NO..DIDDLY DAMN WAY! Your offer would only be applicable and logical to accept if I had: 1. Supernatural Intelligence and 2.All the scientific resources in the world 3. My Own laboratory with its own complimentary white lab coat, witty sophisticated articulate pet monkey with a British accent, and a cup of cocoa.

And you make a thread about which faith based belief system you should follow?

Do you mind elaborating on your past with atheism and your problems with it now? I am curious what would cause you to make the statement above.

originally posted by: Rtardx
a reply to: Rex282

How do you know that?

It’s common reason.Man can NEVER know the creator God through religion because mans nature is religious.The amalgamation of all of a persons experiences form their belief in faith of “their” Belief System religion. In other words everything a person perceives and does is through “belief in faith of their Belief System and belief is the anthesis of knowing.

When a person admonishes you to “just believe” it is always with “buts” which are the conditional doctrines of “their” Belief System religion. That’s why religions like Christianity are so convoluted.There are about 30,000 and counting sects of Christianity that are filled with “buts”.

When Yahoshua said “repent” he wasn’t commanding anyone to “change” he was proclaiming you WILL change when you enter the Kingdom of the creator God.Yahoshua never said unless you believe I died for your sins you will go to the eternal punishment of “hell”.Those are religious extrapolations of “buts”.He was ALWAYS speaking to the religious Jews (which the modern day equivalent are Christians)..when he spoke of what many believe is “the eternal punishment of hell”.Yahoshua warned the disciples of the religious proselytizers who would deceive when he said.

“Beware and do not be deceived for many will come in my name saying they are christ(christian) and deceive many”.

……and that is exactly what has happened for 2 thousand years.The apostle John called them “antichrist”(which means in place of the anointing) because they were just forming into the sects of Christianity.Contrary to popular belief Yahoshua nor the disciples were “Christians” and did not start Christianity the antichrists did.

There is a reason Christianity cannot agree..because it doesn’t make sense.They say out of one side of their mouth “God loves you” he will save you from the eternal punishment of hell(administered and ordained by their God) and out of the other…. BUT IF you don’t BELIEVE a religious doctrine he will sentence you to be tortured unjustly and mercilessly for an infinite amount of time…that is the highest form of INSANITY yet BILLIONS believe it..because THEY won’t be tortured in eternal hell but causality mention that….you will be.

This is the most perverse religious doctrine ever conceived in the carnal(pornea) religious mind(satan) of man.That is why the purveyors of it preach it so much ….it is DOOM PORN!! I am positive not one of them love anyone enough that they would take someones place in Hell(die for them).

The clear reasonable fact is there is no place “the eternal punishment of hell”.Only those that gleefully believe THEY are not going truly believe in it.The majority of everyone else “know” beyond a reasonable doubt it is the most perverse construct ever and they rightly reject a God that would condone such a doctrine and be the author of it.

It doesn’t take a doctorate in theology to “know” this.I am very, very familiar of what is written in the scriptures and the fact is the eternal punishment of “hell” is not in it at ALL! However it is packed with the Good News…..Yahoshua (which means Yahweh..the creator God) IS salvation/deliverance.The man Yahoshua of Nazareth was the literal embodiment of his name (nature and character) .If he wasn’t he was the biggest liar and insane person ever.He did not come to “destroy mankind and sentence the majority of mankind to the eternal punishment hell..... he came to do what his “name “ is…save/deliver.

The creator God will “save/deliver ALL of mankind from HADES which is one of the four words(Sheol,Hades,Gehenna,Tartarus) translated as HELL!!!!…. Hades means the realm of death and imperception.The physical realm is the valley of the shadows of DEATH because everything that lives in it dies and goes to Hades.Yahoshua WILL deliver ALL of mankind(and creation) from the realm of death to the realm of Life….the kingdom of the Creator God.The creator God will also deliver ALL of mankind from “Hades” the realm of imperception(their Belief System religion) and ALL of mankind will KNOW the creator God.

THIS is the only thing Yahoshua proclaimed(then the apostles proclaimed)…..The GOOD news…not the BAD news of the eternal punishment of hell.This is all common reason.Most people even if they don’t believe the man Yahoshua of Nazareth existed would say he seemed like a good man and said some good to profound things however the doctrine of hell is in complete contradiction to what he said.The religious believe Yahoshua is the proclaimer of the doctrine of hell but are blinded to the fact he is not ….THEY are….they have conceived it in their religious carnal mind and have twisted the words to fit their doctrines just as the pharisees did(they didn’t even believe or know of the doctrine of Hell)…BUT WORSE!!……Christianity created it!!.

These very obvious reasonable facts should be “known” yet… they are not.Billions believe their Belief System religion is indisputable and the Truth yet it is full of gaping holes they cannot see because they are blinded by their religious carnal mind.They have made a God in “their” image (Jesus).They strive to be like Jesus yet they ARE Jesus because they created him..in their carnal religious (satan)mind because it is their nature and character do so.When they are caught in a lie they have a justification for it.Their doctrines justify the means…it’s a vicious cycles of lies they believe without knowing they are lies!!!This is the true sense of insanity.To believe the world is flat or pigs can fly is nothing in comparison.They believe in a God they believe is LOVE yet is the most heinous monster ever.The twist and form them in their image…..that is the perverseness the depravity of religion leads to.

Fortunately that kingdom is falling.Some have had their eyes opened(the religious call them atheist).The atheist eyes are still blind but they are open.They do not “believe” in a false God that does not exist where the religious DO believe in a false God that does not exist.Of course it is MUCH better to not believe in a God but to “know” the creator God.The fact is it is IMPOSSIBLE to know the creator God through religious belief.

That is how I know what I stated is truth.The creator God is God.The creator God has NOTHING to do with ANY religion at ALL.(especially Christianity which is the abomination of all religions the apostle John called the Whore of Babylon the Mother of all whores).Most of mankind(the many are called) will NOT know the creator God in the physical realm at all.Everyone that does is only hearing a faint shadow of a whisper from another realm.The Good news is ALL of mankind will hear and know and the creator God will cause ALL of it to happen…..That’s the Good News.

a reply to: Rtardx

I suggest that you study comparative mythology and learn about many religions, not just two Abrahamic religions. Right now you're in a box worrying about heaven and hell. It's like spending your life in a bathroom thinking the world consists of porcelain fixtures and hot and cold water. Outside that single room there's a big world filled with many religious options as well as the option of no religion at all. Ask yourself if you want to be involved with religions that rely on fear to control you. Maybe you do and maybe you don't.

a reply to: Rtardx

Hello Rtardx, and May Peace be upon you.

I truly understand your confusions, frustrations, and fears. I have been a sincere Christian, a devout Muslim, and a disciplined Buddhist. I followed these 3 religions with the utmost adherence, sincerity, and honesty.

As a Christian who began to lean towards Islam, I prayed, fasted, prayed, and fasted for guidance,... my belief in God remained strong, but my faith in Christianity began to waver as my interest in Islam began to grow. I was confused and afraid. Eventually, I felt as though my heart, mind, and spirit was guided to Islam. After about 8 years or so of practicing fundamental Sunni Islam, my heart could no longer accept the religion of Islam.

• I have concluded that Jesus had a beautiful message,... but it has been corrupted and compromised by the Solar Deity worshipping Constantine the Great and Mystery Schools.

• I have concluded that Muhammad had a beautiful message,... but his heart became corrupted by his rise to power during the Medinan period. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Here are threads I've authored explaining in bits and pieces why I no longer believe in either Christianity or Islam:

ISLAM:

• Becoming Muslim: I Did Not Read The Fine Print

• Islam's Incorruptible Qur'an Is Corrupt

• Islam's Lie: "There Is No Compulsion In Religion" (2:256)




CHRISTIANITY:

• Jesus Is NOT The Literal Son of God!!!

• There Is NO Original Sin!!!

• Debunked: Sign of the Prophet Jonas




Nowadays, I cultivate good vibes, peace, love, and happiness without a religion or deity through Mindfulness, "I AM" state of consciousness, and the Present Moment.

Human Unification Through Understanding Spiritual Relativity




If you have any specific questions or points,... please feel free to inquire. I have a deep interest and passion for these topics.

Best wishes on your path and journey!

a reply to: Rtardx

"To be honest, It's my fear of hell and missing out on heaven"

Afterlife Heaven? I say no! And Jesus said:

"The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within."
(Luke 17:20-21)


Did you know that one of the words Judaism uses for Hell is Gehenna? This word actually derives from a real-life physical place called "The Valley of the Son of Hinnom". This is a valley outside of Jerusalem. In ancient times, it was said to have been the actual fire pit used to sacrifice infants and children to the Canaanite deities. In later times, it still had a fiery smolder as a garbage dump.

Basically, the valley of Hinnom/Gehenna was referenced to incite fear by the images of fire and human sacrifice. It is NOT a metaphysical, spiritual, nor afterlife destination; it is on Earth.

And to compound the obvious, Islam borrows the same geographic location, naming their version of Hell as Jahannam.

Also, another translated word for "Hell" used in Judaism is the word "Sheol", which simply means, "common grave".

Additionally, the New Testament borrows the words from Greek mythology "Hades" and "Tartarus", which have been sugar-coated by the translation of "Hell".


Heaven is within and there is no Hell! May Peace be upon you.

a reply to: Rtardx

"But then there's Islam, The free masons are harassing these guys"

The fact that any Elitists, Globalists, or "The Powers That Be" are against Islam is NOT an indication that Islam is correct. The reason is much simpler!

Islam is the only mainstream widely-followed religion that directly opposes the modern banking system. Islam specifically prohibits interest-based loans and interest-for-profit banking. This is a HUGE splinter in the side of the world's Central Banking empire.

Father Christmas or tinkerbell which one ?
Second

a reply to: Sahabi

interesting, thanks for your input.

I don't believe in all that fantasy stuff. But let them all believe what they want. Stop extremism on all sides. Islam, Hebrew, christian............ When others force their views beliefs and rule on the masses based on religion that is when it is wrong. No country should be run by religious leadership. It should be gone from the USA too. Congress has a preacher and prays before they start. If i were not for religion we would have a good hold on real history. So much has been destroyed by them over the ages. Science, medicine ect... Christianity at on time banned eye glasses. Amish might ban all machines if they were in power. Other groups all medicine. Still today. How many religions and groups from the past have done as much. Think of where we would be if so many were not held back by religion. People still question how the pyramids were built and what technology was used. That and so many other things are lost to religion ( war because of religion, when about land they do not destroy all records of the past that differ from their views. ) Believe what you want, but leave others to theirs.