Russian propaganda

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Do I support what Russia did? Sure, why not.

So, if the US invaded part of the Ukraine over internal issues you would support it?

I guess you are down with the war in Iraq since the people sure as hell didnt elect the former Iraqi government.

I guess you support EVERY act of aggression by the US where the SAME excuse was given?

Who are you, as a non Ukrainian citizen to say how their country should or should not be run. Its their problem all the way, all day.

a reply to: VirusGuard

ever heard of proxy warfare?

So the Russian wives and mothers receiving the dead bodies of their sons and husbands from the Ukraine supporting rebels they funded and made and asking for an explanation as to why their sons died in Ukraine are lairs huh?

I guess we had nothing to do with the Iran-contra thing. We didnt send troops after all. Weapons and training are fair game even if they are being given to murders bent on WAR.

Sure thing. We also had nothing to do with the Taliban when they were armed and trained by us to kill Russians. OK. Thanks for clearing that up.

Russia is good to go. Take it all. Hell take back all your former territories that dont want you. Set your borders to the former Soviet bordrs because as long as no tanks are sent its not war.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Do I support what Russia did? Sure, why not.

So, if the US invaded part of the Ukraine over internal issues you would support it?

I guess you are down with the war in Iraq since the people sure as hell didnt elect the former Iraqi government.

I guess you support EVERY act of aggression by the US where the SAME excuse was given?

Who are you, as a non Ukrainian citizen to say how their country should or should not be run. Its their problem all the way, all day.

The US killed over a million Iraqis and Afghans. Russia didn't hurt a single person in Crimea. They seemed to have got a warm welcome. The US? Not so much.

a reply to: nwtrucker

First, Georgia, then Crimea and now The Ukraine.

And of course Afghanistan before that, taken over from the Brits and followed on by the US who then continued into Iraq and under the guise of NATO, Libya. There have been, are, and will continue to be 'invasions' by one country of another real or imagined, military or economic, for as long as humans think it is necessary to make others see their viewpoint through the application of force.

Perhaps you Americans do not understand that the Ukraine - complete - was Russian at one time, and given independence and Crimea wanted to remain Russian as that is it's ethnicity.

At no time in this recent fracas has Russia 'invaded' Ukraine because even if they have supplied arms and munitions, the US has done the same and by that token and your own criteria could be construed to have 'invaded' Ukraine.

It behoves people to have informed opinions and not to simply spout the kool aid of choice which as far as I can see is all that is happening in this thread apart from one individual.

To call someone a shill just because they disagree with you is childish in the extreme and not conducive to reasoned and constructive debate, but then perhaps that is not what people are interested in? Russian propaganda? American propaganda? All made in Taiwan!

a reply to: MALBOSIA

So no one was and is dying in the Ukraine over this?

Ok.

You can justify it all you want and compare it to everything in the bible. Conquest of a land not yours is, conquest. That simple.

a reply to: tadaman

Stop right there my Russian shill who is now following me across the boards.

MODS PLEASE TAKE NOTE.

Well I started a thread and you appear and was abusive not just to me but anyone not agreeing with you and even got one or more of your replies deleted and then you started this thread where off the cuff you called half the posters shills.

Apart from these two threads I don't think I have ever seen you before so lets have some links please ?

a reply to: VirusGuard

What does that have to do with this thread?

Do you have anything ON TOPIC to say? Leave if you dont like it. I didnt invade your country and force you to post here.

You are being rude and disruptive here. How about you act like an adult.

also,

will you tell me how Russia was justified to invade part of the Ukraine? Since you ignored that question by not being able to respond.


You have been abusive of everyone not inline with your skewed support of acts of aggression by Russia. Please buy a mirror.

a reply to: PuterMan

At no time in this recent fracas has Russia 'invaded' Ukraine because even if they have supplied arms and munitions, the US has done the same and by that token and your own criteria could be construed to have 'invaded' Ukraine.

so BECAUSE the US has done things, conquest is not conquest?

If they are ethnic Russians I think they would be in Russia. While there are MANY groups that SHARE Russian heritage in eastern Europe, its insulting to Ukrainians to say they are Russians. Ethnic Russians are a distinct minority and MOST are in Russia.

What YOU think is an "American" issue of comprehension is really an issue with not liking a country invading another. If its all normal as you say then we would not have international laws against it.

Its wrong. Just as wrong for a Russian government to engage in conquest like it is for a British or American government to do so. Its wrong according to our CIVILIZATION and its laws.

EDIT TO ADD:

To call someone a shill just because they disagree with you is childish in the extreme and not conducive to reasoned and constructive debate

Well, it is the MAIN POINT OF THE THREAD. Its no secret. Russia has a huge propaganda machine following its war efforts. I dont think anyone even read the source material.

LOL

Oh well, down with America and long live Putin / Jesus. A southern baptist could take notes in blind fervor.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

The US killed over a million Iraqis and Afghans. Russia didn't hurt a single person in Crimea. They seemed to have got a warm welcome. The US? Not so much.

Not quite right and I have to stop you !

One person was killed on polling day in the Crimea, not sure what side he was on but we must assume anti-Russian so must rule in that the KGB did it.

Since the election I have not heard pip squeak from the Crimea so we must also assume they got what they wanted.

Now I must return to the Ukraine government that is bombing its own people from a great distance using tank shells to bomb city's that puts paid to the theory some people have around here that the Kiev government is made up of CND supporters and not a bunch of Nazi war criminals.

Cluster bombing city's kills the people and not terrorists/rebels/freedom fighters that maybe hiding around

Just as a challenge to all who support Russias actions in the Ukraine.

WITHOUT mentioning the US or another country,

Tell me how Russia was justified to do anything in the Ukraine?

I know you will not be able to form a sound argument that I cant dismantle with no effort. Do you?

So do it. Tell me without mentioning the US or the west or any other country besides Russia and the Ukraine, tell me how they are justified in doing what they are doing?

I dare you.

a reply to: VirusGuard

I gave you a star for spunk.

Tell me. If you had rebels in your country that were funded, armed and trained by a foreign country what would you like done? ask them for a passport and if not ask them to leave?

If there are armed people trying to use violence to overthrow your government just to install a puppet government that will be subservient to a foreign entity what would you do?

NOT fight ARMED men?

a reply to: tadaman

What YOU think is an "American" issue of comprehension is really an issue with not liking a country invading another.

On the assumption, possibly incorrectly that you are American I find that particular statement a little odd.

If they are ethnic Russians I think they would be in Russia.

Applying that logic the world would be a very different place an I guess the US would only be the home of the Native Americans, oh but wait a moment they were Mongolians 30,000 year or so ago......

No, Crimea is mainly Russian heritage and chose to remain so. Ukraine in the east is mainly Russian heritage and wishes to remain aligned with Russia.

At the end of the day this fight for independence, or terrorism depending on your viewpoint, is neither the business of the Americans/Europeans or the Russians. My main problem with Europe and America is that they seem to think they are obliged to get involved in everyone else's affairs especially if gas/oil is to be had. On the other hand where there are very grave social injustices committed against citizens of a country by it's rulers they say nothing if that country is deemed to be our friend (i.e. we already have the oil/gas) This is a two faced attitude and both Europe and America need to be reined in.

a reply to: tadaman

Perhaps before making such a challenge you should clarify what they are doing, or rather what you think they are doing and then back that up with irrefutable evidence? I have no idea what they (the Russians) are supposedly doing that is not to your liking, however one you give a proven account perhaps one can form a sound argument. It is had to argue against hearsay.

a reply to: tadaman

Do you have anything ON TOPIC to say? Leave if you dont like it. I didnt invade your country and force you to post here.

if this thread is not about Russia, The Ukraine or propaganda then you are right but you have to understand that I like it here, even feel its my duty to offer up a debate.

If you are from the USA then no you did not invade us, just never left after WWII and now want to start a war in our back garden but if you are asking about how many countries the USA has invaded since WWII then I am sorry but I can only give you an estimate and say that its well into the double digits.

The world has a population of about 7bn and the USA has a population of about 350 million and yet it needs to spend more on what you call defence than the rest of the world combined so trying to portray the USA as a peace loving nation and not the worlds bully by putting the blame on Muslims, Russia, Cuba, China might carry some weight if the facts said otherwise.

Throw in the amount of money the USA spends on propaganda and it is no wonder that the deficit is measured at anything from $20tr to $700tr but if you think my figures on military spending are not correct then do provide a link and estimate yourself how much it costs to run more than 400 foreign military base around the globe.

Was that off topic too ?

a reply to: PuterMan

So I guess you would support Nazi Germany in its invasion of Poland since "ethnic" Germans were being brutalized by polish forces? Using your logic of coarse, and it is logic you are using correct?

The Ukraine in its entirety like other former SOVIET territories were part of the SOVIET union. They were not part of modern day Russia.

It is SO very insulting to a Ukrainian to say that they are basically Russians. If there were so many "ethnic" Russians in Crimea why then did they not form part of the Russian federation after the fall of the soviet government?

No, I think you are selling me a used car here.

a reply to: PuterMan

NO its very simple.

If Russia is justified in its acts of aggression against a sovereign nation, tell me without saying "oh the US does it" since that doesnt, at all, clarify why you think Russia is justified.

So you cant can you?

a reply to: tadaman

Tell me. If you had rebels in your country that were funded, armed and trained by a foreign country what would you like done? ask them for a passport and if not ask them to leave?

If there are armed people trying to use violence to overthrow your government just to install a puppet government that will be subservient to a foreign entity what would you do?

NOT fight ARMED men?

I am getting a little confused here. Just who is it that you think is a puppet government, the current one in the Ukraine or the former one, and just who it is you think is using fighters armed and trained by a foreign country?

And talking about rebels in my country (where I am living) being armed by a foreign country I would point out that without that the State of Ireland would never have come into being.

Why should the Eastern side of the Ukraine not have the same right to self determination?

a reply to: VirusGuard

Um, What?

What is your point or argument?

More crap about the US? Ok. Anything about RUSSIAN propaganda? No? OK. YOu do realize that this thread is about that right?

Are you done at least?

That was entirely off topic. This is NOT about the US. Its about RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA following its invasions in recent history. Care to elaborate on that? Is it ok, wrong, non existent according to you? What?

and you say I disrupted another thread? That I FOLLOWED you like you have me here? Dude, go away or talk to me... not at me. At least in that other thread I spoke honestly what I think and feel. I was called a shill and treated like a disease. Now you come here with that crap? YOU are being rude. I was just posting my thoughts, you know as per the function of this site. You are being a weirdo.

Look who's telling you Russia is invading the Ukraine. It's certainly not the Russians. I'm doubtful there are even troops on Ukrainian soil. It's just more american bs propaganda so they can justify the stranglehold they're trying to put on Russia. When the U.S. invades, they tell the whole damn world about it so they can justify their bullsh!t reasoning. Makes sense that the Russians would at least try and explain why they're "invading"...

***ATTENTION***

This ends NOW. The next person to post ANYTHING not relating to the topic at hand will be immediately Post Banned. The next personal attack will result in a 72 hour Post Ban. I don't care what your views on either side of the issue is, you will discuss the topic at hand, NOT each other.

Do not reply to this post.