Why Women Are Seen as Sex Objects More Today by Men.

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: Realtruth

I think many women from an early age are brought up to think they have to look good to get a guy with a decent job and have a family and a good life.

Instead of teaching them....you can have your own decent job, family and good life.

Of course these are massive stereotypes but it doesnt make them any less false. The majority of women I have met have no desire to really seek out knowledge or a career. But the ones who do....omg they are so golden. I am so attracted to independent intelligent women. Honestly the women on ats are probably the exact kind of girl id be happy with. Someone with some fire and passion about their opinions with facts and research to back it up!

So lets stereotype guys as well...you have a man that has a career...good job good life...loves his hobbies...he has everything he needs but wants sex...or a companion. He gets one that looks good but maybe can't provide much else...i dont care how hot someone is you get bored with them sexually at times...and in those moments you need a companion that is a friend and has things in common until you can spice things up a bit. This is why the divorice rate is so high in my opinion...we focus on sex much more than things in common.

This is just my opinion... I don't think less of either sex.

I agree with you on this. I'm a girl and I dress conservative (tomboyish) and I care about having a career and my own independence.

I wasn't put on this earth to make babies, and I'm not gonna depend on a man.

Most women just care about following the group by getting pregnant, getting married to a guy they have NOTHING in common with (but it's ok because she has her looks) then end up getting a divorce.

I'd rather read a book than gossip

a reply to: Midnight13

Thank you for your comment you seem like a confident person that is comfortable with themself.

Very attractive in my opinion.

Vitamin D is increasing from sun!

a reply to: Realtruth

Our corrupt system forced women to behave as such for survival reasons because women are in a more vulnerable state than men.

This is a man's world as honest and painful for me to admit. That is why we have wars and atrocities committed in wars directed mostly to women and children.

I absolutely want this to change, revise the laws, everything, give women a fair fight.

These threads never fail to display the obviousness of those individuals who have experienced happy healthy relationships and those who have not.

Gender notwithstanding.

As far as I am concerned, we don't really know exactly how the male/female societal roles and relationships worked in the past. All sorts of evidence points to things not being so clear cut despite the modern view basically saying "women were the property of men until the modern century". Roman women practically lining up to fight in the arena at one point, so much an issue that an emperor made a law against it. Men in the classic Greek era consulting oracles, who were women. Native Americans tribes being afraid of "twin-souled" men and women both.

What I can tell you is that they (the roles and relationships) change based upon the specific societal circumstances we are dealt. I would say that we have not risen beyond our inherent programming in any significant way in the last many thousands of years. Innately, we still act the same. And yet at the same time, we still have the same deviations that have been waxing and waning with the times.

Both men and women have been displaced as far as what kind of role they have in the modern society just based on technological advances. That really is the situation we have been dealt that is unique to us. Are women actually seen more so as sexual objects for men today than in the past? I sincerely doubt it. In fact, I think men may actually be getting the short end of the stick right now --they are having a harder time coping in this kind of world than are women.

originally posted by: Realtruth
Now before all the feminist’s and feminist sympathizer’s get their feathers in a bunch, please take a moment and read the entire post. I have pondered for quite some time on this topic, but have only recently come up with what I believe may be a good logical answer, and what I have discovered was interesting.

Aside from the MSM, Hollywood, and corporations that exploit women's genders for money, there is something deeper rooted than what many typically would think.

Men started out as hunters/ gatherers, shelter providers, protectors and this role did not changed for ages.

Men’s Roles for Ages
Think about it for a moment, a man is geared to:
1) Hunt for food and gather
2) Provide a home/ Shelter and provide protection for his territory.
3) Insure his genes survive (ie: Procreation/Breeding)

Women’s Roles for Ages, what a women is geared to:
1) Preparing food
2) Taking care of a male’s territory (cleaning) and caring for offspring (children).
3) Produce children to insure her genes were carried on

Fast-forward to today’s society. Only in the past century has there been any type of major shift in the positions and roles for men and women, especially in the past few decades.

Today women don't need men for the hunting and gathering anymore, and they don’t need men to protect them. Women have excelled in the work and business arena granting them the ability to get their food by shopping. This new mode of living has also given women the power to purchase/rent a home or apartment (ie: Shelter).

Protection isn't needed anymore because laws, courts, and law enforcement officers there to enforce territory protections and punishment.

Women have also found a surrogate for their procreation needs, it’s called a sperm bank.

And with the advent of 2/3 of the divorces filed these days are by women, it only adds credence that women do not need men in their typical “Mans Role of Ages”.

www.divorce-lawyer-source.com...

With women continuing on with their “Roles for Ages” and coupled with today’s modus operandi, what’s left for men to see women as?

I would ask everyone to be polite and respectful when commenting, because this type of topic can sometimes heated.


Regards,

RT

You're the victim of bad anthropology. Early humans were primarily gatherers supplemented with scavenging. The only place where hunting provided most of the food or even a sizeable percentage was in arctic regions. Your entire view of early humans is biased and does not reflect reality. This "man the hunter/protector" crap is the result of bad 1950s anthropology that has largely been debunked. Studies of existing primitive tribes and primates (apes) reveal a very different picture. Your bad education and biases have fueled your sexism.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

I never said it was degrading...

However if you want to be seen as more than sexual put some clothes on and do something intelligent.


Anyone can take their clothes off...
It's not a miraculous thing.

It's interesting that you chose to focus on that rather than the percentage of women compared to men graduating from medical schools and law schools. Maybe that's because that's where you interest lies.

Everyone is an object. It's not so bad to admit this.

originally posted by: Realtruth
With women continuing on with their “Roles for Ages” and coupled with today’s modus operandi, what’s left for men to see women as?

A person? An equal? A partner? Why does a womans role have to relate to your role?

Given the rise of the use of the internet and the large demographic of teenagers now "on board" across various social networking sites, it's my opinion that the majority of sexist perspectives are actually "trickling up" in the social awareness spectrum.

For example...I have an account on a popular blog site....when I signed up I was blissfully unaware of it's popularity with the younger crowd....but after two years of becoming familiar with the site demographic, I am absolutely stunned by the massive amount of sex-based discussions on there....to the point I rarely attend my personal blog anymore, and I've completely stopped using the search feature. It absolutely breaks my heart to see some of the things being posted there.

The majority of young girls on that site cannot seem to NOT post a photo of themselves.

I'm a woman in my 40's and by no means prudish....but every time I see a picture of a teenage girl posing for the camera for whatever reason (attention, re-blogs and likes) part of me dies a little bit inside. I know damn well how images online of ones personal visage can be misused, and I abstain almost entirely from the practice. I know damn well how it plays out once people see what I look like - how suddenly I'm given "preferential treatment" as if all that mattered was what I look like.

Maybe it's the layover from being an awkward teenager back in the days before dial-up...I'm dealt with my fair share of being judged in the real world - been there done that - and not interested in another ride on the superficial merry-go-round.

I'm well aware of how mass media portrays the "feminine ideal" and how impressionable young women seek to mimic such imagery as a way to grow into their new sense of self identity...but really, it's gone well beyond the pale. Teenage girls (and boys) are caught up in a clusterfudge of visual adoration - with very little else driving a large percentage of their social interactions - in this modern social landscape.

A young man is able to sift through millions of photos of women, and assign any personal characteristics he wishes based on that visual image alone - a perfect fantasy, of sorts - without much else to go on aside from that initial visual image.

Young women do the exact thing themselves - they see a "role model" online and base their image around what they perceive as the strong/sexy/idealized woman....and whether or not we want to admit it or not, beauty comes with benefits....I've seen lovely young girls posting "sexy" pictures on minute, and then follow up with stories and photos of numerous gifts "from admirers".

Long story short - if one is rewarded for playing the part, one will continue to play the part. It's easier to jump on a stereotypical bandwagon that is constantly reinforced day in and day out by so much of society that it is to introspect and tend to the personality....makeup is a cure for even the worst woes it seems...and pretty girls get the boys (and the gifts) so what young person isn't going to be tempted by that simple and easy prospect?

A lot of what we have seen over the past couple of years regarding the role of "men and women" online is coming about from the onslaught of the younger generations growing up almost entirely online, and it's made it's way up to the eyes of the more mature members of the online generation.

Have there been gender issues before this? Yes...I'm not trying to downplay that factor at all.

It's just now, when so many internet users are used to having the majority of their "relationships" go on by a purely visual format - (computers, phones, tablets, etc) - there are bound to be a lot of those more "primitive" associations of the opposite gender and their assigned roles....mainly because human beings, at their core, are blindly self serving entities.

Even moreso when the majority of human relationships are primarily conducted in the fantasy driven landscape of the mind.

Not all human interactions are based purely on this principle, but a staggering amount of these online interactions have proven that people - (regardless of gender) - are turning towards thinking of other people as little more than props and stepping stones to advance their own short term happiness and material gain.

With very little experience with real world relationships, all that online "pre-programming" of expectations when it comes to the opposite sex is taking it's toll. Everyone wants the "easy way out" - the no strings attached, no pressure, no depth relationship. Girls are rewarded with attention and material goods for being pretty, vapid and shallow...whereas if a woman dares "speak her mind" she is attacked for being this, that, and the other thing....because it's destroys the two dimensional fantasy many have built up in their minds.



TL;DR : Humans are selfishly driven to exploit whatever they have to get ahead socially, materially and financially.

a reply to: Realtruth

I see, why I might have come across a little bit wrong.
Women are in my point of view better for many reasons, we're not ducks, with humans the females are mostly prettier.
We are smarter, the statistics how many girls get their bachelors and masters in comparisson to guys shows that. Also the selling number in books, proves women read more, etc.
The problem is the same reason why women use make-up: selfesteem. And that's why I can't really respect most women (yes I don't have many friends) they could be more independent happier and stronger, if they'd embrace who and what they are.
Unfortunately girls are more depending on approval, or a different more complex way of that kind of back petting than guys are.
A man looks in the mirror and says: Oh dear I'm so hot!
A female looks in the mirror: Oh damn I gained two pound, my hips are too round and I got a pimple on my nose!

That's not entirely true for everybody, there is a growing number of guys developing eating disorders and stuff, because they can't find approval...

originally posted by: Aazadan


A person? An equal? A partner? Why does a womans role have to relate to your role?

What if the man perceives of himself as an object... a sort of physical machine, with nothing of value inside besides guts and bones?

If he perceives and treats all others as equals, he will treat them as physical machines with nothing of value inside.

The simple idiom "treat them as equals" is one of those like "do unto others...."- it is what we do, already, instinctively.

This is the point I repeatedly refer to about men and their objectification.

Look how many men will rail on about the impossibility of the "soul", of all internal events and dynamics as "meaningless psychobabble"... of the personality as being the actions one does, not what the feel inside.

This is natural male brain work. Yes, some are able to develop a different or more enlarged vision. But it is a predominant male trait. Call it good or bad, but putting aside the personal moral judgements, let's acknowledge how things are.

It is in relationships with women they often start to gain more insight into themselves and the internal world. Women who expose theirs, stimulate a similar exposure of his- partly because of empathic and reflective nature.
(my body picks up when someone close to me is bothered by something, even if they are in denial about it. Sympathetic responses in my physiology will stimulate the same emotions. The fact that I will be less hesitant to express and expose those opens up the can for us both).

I suspect the point someone made about long term and deep relations and partnering happening later in life was a very relevant one!! It is possible more men remain "objectifying" without sense of depth for a longer time.

But- this may be counter balanced by the fact that we are also living longer lives.....

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

Mr Darcy?

MWC

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

I never said it was degrading...

However if you want to be seen as more than sexual put some clothes on and do something intelligent.


Anyone can take their clothes off...
It's not a miraculous thing.

I didn't mean that to come across as criticizing you.I was actually trying to agree with you.I just find it funny that feminists can walk around topless holding signs that say don't tell me how to dress.and then get mad when a woman takes off her clothes for money.just seems like a double standard to me.

I've had that same logical issue---only figured it out when I was getting paid to take my clothes off and sit very still for extended periods of time. It all depends on what motions are made by the body once the clothes are removed, as I understand society's view.
Taking off your clothes to be an artist's model is perfectly acceptable. It doesn't pay as well as taking off one's clothes and moving about a bit.
I've found this to be the case and worked out the difference between a stripper and a model but I haven't yet worked out the why of the difference in attitude toward the two occupations.

a reply to: Spruce

Personally, I think legalizing prostitution would just cheapen and further debase women.

Do you have any prostitues data to back this up.

They need to know they're valued for something other

Heres a challenge - if your happily married tell your wife you're going to give your boss your the next 3 months labour for free. See where her values lie then. Your time is valued by her in $

a reply to: Realtruth

The dysfunction is not in the act, but in the mindset.

Couldn't agree more. There is still baggage from religious pressures that see sex useful for procreation only.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight

Heres a challenge - if your happily married tell your wife you're going to give your boss your the next 3 months labour for free. See where her values lie then. Your time is valued by her in $

So sad that there are people in the world that actually believe this is what life, relationships and women are all about!!!

I would be fine with my husband announcing that to me (though I would ask that he explain to me why- He is not an irrational person and would surely have a good reason).

But I have talked him into quitting his job because it wasn't making him happy- while we had three small children and I was a foreigner who could not speak the local language. I took care of the family then, with no income, while he went to medical school, and we barely saw each other. Me and the kids ate potatoes and noodles, and I never felt like complaining.

Now he has an awesome job he loves doing as a result. As a side effect, it also makes a lot of money (which we could not have predicted). But I am totally willing to be homeless if it is necessary for his happiness and personal evolution!
Together we are creative and powerful- I have perfect confidence that no matter what hardships we enter, we can create something else anew!

What a bleak and superficial view of the world and people you live in. Where have you been hanging out and meeting women? Bars???

The only thing to blame for the subjugation of females in the last 2000 years is all down to monotheistic religion.
Under polytheism Females were worshiped as gods,as queens, as priestesses as rulers, given great power and often more power than men!

Along comes monotheism and God is now male, and females are second to men
gone are the days of worshiping mother earth, the female form.

Everything is directly related and can be traced back to the creation of monotheism.

a reply to: diggindirt

Much like how shooting porn movies are perfectly acceptable

but if you have sex with someone for money and don't film it or keep it in a club then its illegal (prostitution)