Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

originally posted by: tony9802
a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

The most obvious position for men to take on cyber bullying against women, is to defend women.
It's just kind of scary to think that some individuals would think that bullying her is acceptable and tolerable.
I believe that is what the original poster, neformore originally had in mind, and to his surprise, there were many
persons here writing, that did not have a problem with that bullying. It's distasteful, and it's a sign of a society
moving in a bad direction..


Otherwise, if I have made any comments that were somehow inappropriate, then I do apologize..

I can't imagine any of your comments being inappropriate.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: tony9802
a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

The most obvious position for men to take on cyber bullying against women, is to defend women. It's just kind of scary to think that some individuals would think that bullying her is acceptable and tolerable. I believe that is what the original poster, neformore originally had in mind, and to his surprise, there were many persons here writing, that did not have a problem with that bullying. It's distasteful, and it's a sign of a society moving in a bad direction..


Otherwise, if I have made any comments that were somehow inappropriate, then I do apologize..

I can't imagine any of your comments being inappropriate.

Thank you for that, I hope I've not been overly fawning or "obsequious.." as one individual earlier put it. What I have been noticing on this thread through, is that some of the guys are arriving and just sort of making sloppy comments and statements without terribly thinking things through, and then later they sort of discover that there are other ATS members which whom they are sharing discussion, and then they sort of suddenly stand up, sit up straight a bit and begin to actually dialogue in more formal, and cautious form.. I'm noticing there's that improvement at least..which is a good thing.

If everyone just thought in terms of having a daughter, a daughter and son mind you, then this whole problem could easily be swiped away..This might be a good moment to apologize to parents for any mistreatment their children may have received on the internet by the way, you really have to be shrewd and cautious when dealing with these types of concerns.. do be safe out there!

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: tony9802
a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

The most obvious position for men to take on cyber bullying against women, is to defend women. It's just kind of scary to think that some individuals would think that bullying her is acceptable and tolerable. I believe that is what the original poster, neformore originally had in mind, and to his surprise, there were many persons here writing, that did not have a problem with that bullying. It's distasteful, and it's a sign of a society moving in a bad direction..


Otherwise, if I have made any comments that were somehow inappropriate, then I do apologize..

I can't imagine any of your comments being inappropriate.

Thank you for that, I hope I've not been overly fawning or "obsequious.." as someone earlier put it. What I have been noticing on this thread, is that some of the guys are arriving and just sort of making comments and sloppy statements without terribly thinking things through, and then later they sort of discover that there are other ATS members which whom they are sharing discussion, and then they sort of suddenly stand up, sit up straight a bit and then begin to actually dialogue in more formal, and cautious form.. I'm noticing there's that improvement..which is a good thing.

If everyone just thought in terms of having a daughter, then this whole problem could easily be swiped away..

If everyone had a daughter and son, then the conversation would, perhaps, be on a different level.

a reply to: InTheLight

Very good point.. I stand to be corrected don't I, thank you for that..

originally posted by: tony9802
a reply to: InTheLight

Very good point! I stand to be corrected don't I..Thank you for that..

No, obviously I stand to be corrected.

Allow me to humbly offer that no child should be subjected to any type of injurious mistreatment..ever.

originally posted by: tony9802





No child should be subjected to any type of mistreatment..

Enough said.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

The way I see it is I'd rather see the entirety of cyberbullying be examined and acted against as opposed to have it compartmentalized by groupings. Once you compartmentalize something, you're guaranteeing opposition from another group. That's not going to change anything imho.

I've always had trouble with the idea of cyberbullying itself. As I see it, the conditions of cyber bullying imply that the victim is on a computer, sitting in a chair, alone, interacting with shapes and words on a computer screen. How can one be bullied under these conditions? These are very safe conditions. Is it spooky bullying at a distance? Is it about as real as cyber sex, and the bullying is self-inflicted? I fear there is not enough research, and too much legislation already.

I can only theorize on the subject, but I bet that one imagines his online life, that being whatever he puts on the internet, to be somehow an extension of his real life. I do not understand how one can be bullied under these conditions.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: WhiteAlice

The way I see it is I'd rather see the entirety of cyberbullying be examined and acted against as opposed to have it compartmentalized by groupings. Once you compartmentalize something, you're guaranteeing opposition from another group. That's not going to change anything imho.

I've always had trouble with the idea of cyberbullying itself. As I see it, the conditions of cyber bullying imply that the victim is on a computer, sitting in a chair, alone, interacting with shapes and words on a computer screen. How can one be bullied under these conditions? These are very safe conditions. Is it spooky bullying at a distance? Is it about as real as cyber sex, and the bullying is self-inflicted? I fear there is not enough research, and too much legislation already.

I can only theorize on the subject, but I bet that one imagines his online life, that being whatever he puts on the internet, to be somehow an extension of his real life. I do not understand how one can be bullied under these conditions.

Irregardless, doesn't common decency, kindness, and giving someone the benefit of the doubt, play into this?

a reply to: InTheLight

Irregardless, doesn't common decency, kindness, and giving someone the benefit of the doubt, play into this?

In a perfect world maybe. For instance, I will not give you the benefit of the doubt for using irregardless in place of regardless.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: InTheLight

Irregardless, doesn't common decency, kindness, and giving someone the benefit of the doubt, play into this?

In a perfect world maybe. For instance, I will not give you the benefit of the doubt for using irregardless in place of regardless.

And I will give you kindness, in not saying that I don't give a hoot.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: InTheLight

Irregardless, doesn't common decency, kindness, and giving someone the benefit of the doubt, play into this?

In a perfect world maybe. For instance, I will not give you the benefit of the doubt for using irregardless in place of regardless.

Is it "Le Misanthrope", or the plural form, "Les Misanthropes", with the corresponding pluralizing French "s" added at the end. I believe the spelling should be the former, as it refers to only one protagonist in that play; Perhaps you would like to make that change in the title of your corresponding avatar..Have you read that play in it's original language by chance? It's a wonderful language isn't it..let's honor it by spelling the name of the play correctly..

Irrespective, I allow people to make brief grammatical errors, because they are only human just like me, and I make errors all of the time myself.. You should read what other members have written or brielfly described about real life cyber stalkings.. where a verbal threat on a computer screen, in the comfort of your own "safe" home, can suddenly become a serious problem against a criminal offender.. Sorry, but sitting in front of your screen, at your desk, on your comfortable chair, in your cozy warm home, is not necessarily always a safe "bully free," paradise...

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: InTheLight

Irregardless, doesn't common decency, kindness, and giving someone the benefit of the doubt, play into this?

In a perfect world maybe. For instance, I will not give you the benefit of the doubt for using irregardless in place of regardless.

Is it "Le Misanthrope", or the plural form, "Les Misanthropes", with the corresponding pluralizing French "s" added at the end. I believe the spelling should be the former, as it refers to only one protagonist in that play; Perhaps you would like to make that change in the title of your corresponding avatar..Have you read that play in it's original language by chance? It's a wonderful language isn't it..let's honor it by spelling the name of the play correctly..

Irrespective, I allow people to make brief grammatical errors, because they are only human just like me, and I make errors all of the time myself.. You should read what other members have written or brielfly described about real life cyber stalkings.. where a verbal threat on a computer screen, in the comfort of your own "safe" home, can suddenly become a serious problem against a criminal offender.. Sorry, but sitting in front of your screen, at your desk, on your comfortable chair, in your cozy warm home, is not necessarily always a safe "bully free," paradise...

I am a target, for some unknown reason.

originally posted by: tony9802

Is it "Le Misanthrope", or the plural form, "Les Misanthropes", with the corresponding pluralizing French "s" added at the end. I believe the spelling should be the former, as it refers to only one protagonist in that play; Perhaps you would like to make that change in the title of your corresponding avatar..Have you read that play in it's original language by chance? It's a wonderful language isn't it..let's honor it by spelling the name of the play correctly..

Irrespective, I allow people to make brief grammatical errors, because they are only human just like me, and I make errors all of the time myself.. You should read what other members have written or brielfly described about real life cyber stalkings.. where a verbal threat on a computer screen, in the comfort of your own "safe" home, can suddenly become a serious problem against a criminal offender.. Sorry, but sitting in front of your screen, at your desk, on your comfortable chair, in your cozy warm home, is not necessarily always a safe "bully free," paradise...

It is a play on words, in which my favorite plays, Les miserables and Le misanthrope are combined to make an interesting moniker. Tony on the other hand? It is indeed a wonderful language and I am fully aware of the improper spelling. I do get tired of explaining it, however.

A verbal threat on a computer screen cannot be a verbal threat, by virtue of the fact that words on a screen are typed, not spoken. Perhaps a verbal threat can be made in a video, or a video game, but that shows more a stupidity on their part.

if online bullying equates to offline stalking, it's not so much online bullying, is it? If people project enough of their offline life on to the Internet, ie. Their address, lifestyle etc, so that a bully may bully them offline, how is this online bullying?

a reply to: InTheLight

How are you a target, inthelight? I picture you as a strong person.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: InTheLight

How are you a target, inthelight? I picture you as a strong person.

Therein lies the reason.

a reply to: InTheLight

Interesting. At least here, miles of land between you and these fools, connected only by wiring and a network, physical strength means little, and we have little to worry. Not a single hair on our bodies disturbed.

The assertion that cyber bullying is ultimately meaningless, because physical contact is not happening here (sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me) is valid, in my mind.

There might be something to be gained by the realization that one can disregard verbal attacks, and not feel threatened by them.

But I think the point that makes that less distinct is in terms of the education and evolution of young people, children.

When a young person repeatedly sees that slinging verbal insults or threats causes the other to "shut up" or "disappear", indicating they have run from the show of force, or otherwise submitted to their dominance (I have been told this repeatedly by young male posters on forums- this is why they do it- it works usually), we come up against the problem of the younger generation....

My generation knew a time without computers, without internet. We often retain an ability to compartmentalize our cyber activities and real life. THe younger generations have less distinction between them. They are more often texting with people that are in the same room with them, their lives are tightly intertwined with the cyber life. Hearing young people say "LOL!" instead of simply laughing at loud the way we old timers used to do, shows this clearly.

So what I get concerned about is habits formed on the net getting carried over to the real world, in which physical contact is possible. A guy who has gotten used to dominating others verbally on the computer is at risk of trying this in real life.

Is it fair to let that boy do something so socially maladapted that most likely will get his face smashed in, and not understanding why?

-This is my question each time I hear, "Don't feed the trolls". Some of the trolls WANT you to shut up and "disappear" so by doing so, you have just nurtured and encouraged their troll like behavior.

It comes back to the sense of responsibility one has as a parent, the way we begin to look at all sorts of decisions in terms of "what will this bring about for the young person in the long term?"

.....And I am back to the traditional ways women used to get together to "gossip", which has been devalued as meaningless idiocy, but used to be how mothers got together to examine and analyze what kinds of behaviors they choose to educate their young children with, and not, and come to some consensus so that a community will be able to communicate and cooperate with each other effectively. This is what we're doing now (and I like that some men are taking part in that).

Our upcoming generations are important to use all. We should consider them seriously.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Well, what's the definition of bullying?

Via Wordnik:

n. An act of intimidating a weaker person to do something, especially such repeated coercion.
n. Persistent acts intended to make life unpleasant for another person.

I don't see anything in there that specifically defines bullying as having to have a physical component, do you? Getting antagonized by an individual online, especially if that individual is stalking everywhere one goes can make life pretty unpleasant. "The act of intimidating" is also noted in it so how is intimidation defined?

n. The act of making timid or fearful or of deterring by threats; the state of being intimidated; as, the voters were kept from the polls by intimidation.

n. In law, the wrongful use of violence or a threat of violence, direct or indirect, against any person with a view to compel him to do or to abstain from doing some act which he has a legal right to do or to abstain from doing.

Again, first definition doesn't have any physicality to it. The legal definition, however, specifies "the wrongful use of violence or threats of violence, direct or indirect". Is there really any actual assurance that someone who is participating in cyberbullying is not capable or in the vicinity of their victim? I have friends who I met through gaming. 6 of them live in my city. 3 live within 15 minutes of me. 2 live within 5 minutes of me. If one of them were to threaten me with threats of violence online, should I not be concerned?

Considering the amount of time that people are on the internet and social media, it shouldn't be that unexpected that it is a sort of extension of life. I personally see the internet as being really no different from any other communication medium. It's simply a tool for communication just like a telephone or a pen and paper.

If someone is receiving threatening phone calls on their phone, should they not be concerned because they are answering their phone safe and sound in their home? The law says that such phone calls would fall under telephonic harassment at the least and that's not even including any threats being involved. That law has been on the books for at least 20 years. Even the anonymity of an unknown person calling to harass and intimidate you doesn't assure your safety. Trust me on that one.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
if online bullying equates to offline stalking, it's not so much online bullying, is it? If people project enough of their offline life on to the Internet, ie. Their address, lifestyle etc, so that a bully may bully them offline, how is this online bullying?

That's rather "blaming the victim", isn't it? There's actually a lot of ways to hunt somebody down on the internet. The first thing I can think of offhand is obtaining the individual's ip, which can be traced unless someone is using a proxy (which most sites bar the use of and some sites instantly ban any known proxies). With just a name, that makes it a lot easier as your information is getting regularly bought and sold all the time. Someone could be intensely secure about their information both online and offline and still have their address, phone number and more put out on the net without their consent.

Myself as an example, I've never put my actual city on any profile online (tend to leave it blank or find some crazily named place in the world for kicks other times). I don't use my correct date of birth. No phone number (which is a pain for email prompts that ask for it). I think the only online venue that actually had my address was Amazon for shipping delivery. In real life, my driver's license has had the wrong address on it for 20 years now (I actually have permission for this from the police so I'm ok to do that). Utilities, historically, have been mixed and under other names. Up until maybe a couple years ago, the only utility under my name was my phone/internet and with them, they waived the additional fees to assure that my information remained unpublished and unlisted because of police order. My bank has my address but I don't write paper checks and any in-store reward cards have my father's address. There's a reason for such an extreme but do keep in mind, I am under police order to hide til the day I die or the one that I'm hiding from dies himself. Guess what happened a couple years ago?

My information got on the net on the White Pages site. So if you can have an extremely private and rightfully paranoid person who actually has to legitimately hide to keep from being potentially murdered by a violent sociopath and their information gets on the net despite all of the above precautions, well, anybody's can. Your information is probably out there.