Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Malynn

Lol all the people in this thread railing against feminism realize feminism is for EQUALITY of man and woman right? But why would we want that? Men have ruled for millenia and everything is perfect.

Can you imagine what it would be like if every guy on the planet treated females equally?

And then you continue with a statement like the one written above.. can you just imagine..heaven forbid every guy on the planet treat ladies equally, respectfully..appropriately;

I don't automatically give any man respect, either. He's got to earn it, whether president or janitor. I'm not going to respect anyone just because they were born with a pair of testicles - are you saying I should automatically respect them just because they weren't?

Where's the "equality" in that?

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: tony9802
..."Men have not ruled for centuries men have just taken the front and center role for centuries, mostly because it attracts females, and generally where the power goes the females follow, because they like that stuff and it gets a great majority of them off.


Gee whiz.. what is this guy saying..

Truth hurts eh?

I'm all for equality. Take out the trash and go work in some coal mines and see how well 'equality' treats you.

Women around here used to work in the coal mines - but that was before they started shutting them all down and making us all equally broke.

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: tony9802
..."Men have not ruled for centuries men have just taken the front and center role for centuries, mostly because it attracts females, and generally where the power goes the females follow, because they like that stuff and it gets a great majority of them off.


Gee whiz.. what is this guy saying..

Truth hurts eh?

Well as the saying goes: "Behind every great man, there's a powerful and great woman".. try that for governing "front and center," century after century.. By the way, throughout history, for example Christian or European History, there were many numerous examples of leading ladies.. She has held protagonist championing roles throughout, but I wouldn't want to bring those up here on this thread, since it might offend those who who engage in tough, virulent, men's work; those who work endless hours in unsavory "coal mines"..

Don't be upsetting the narrative that women were always downtrodden by the evil patriarchy - it will win you no brownie points, and some feminists might even go so far as to glare at you and kick you out of the club!

originally posted by: tony9802



By the way, I more than gladly am or would be thankfully willing to take out the trash for my wife, for my mum, and also for my sister..because it is my pleasure to favor her, it is all my pleasure..

Well that's just not right!

Didn't you get the memo that they all just want equal rights?

Exercise yours, man!

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Malynn

Lol all the people in this thread railing against feminism realize feminism is for EQUALITY of man and woman right? But why would we want that? Men have ruled for millenia and everything is perfect.

Can you imagine what it would be like if every guy on the planet treated females equally?

And then you continue with a statement like the one written above.. can you just imagine..heaven forbid every guy on the planet treat ladies equally, respectfully..appropriately;

I don't automatically give any man respect, either. He's got to earn it, whether president or janitor. I'm not going to respect anyone just because they were born with a pair of testicles - are you saying I should automatically respect them just because they weren't?

Where's the "equality" in that?

Do you know why I respect ladies so much..well here then, let me tell you why..It's because they happen to have this wondrous sparkle in their eyes that generally speaking, most generally speaking, men generally don't; I've been very lucky, very, very fortunate in my life to experience that bit of sparkle in the old eyes..I'm very sorry if you haven't yet had a chance to see or feel it yet..it will appear to you though, so long as you allow it to..Just soften up a little, you might find you actually like her company and her companionship one day..

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: tony9802



By the way, I more than gladly am or would be thankfully willing to take out the trash for my wife, for my mum, and also for my sister..because it is my pleasure to favor her, it is all my pleasure..

Well that's just not right!

Didn't you get the memo that they all just want equal rights?

Exercise yours, man!

I do exercise my rights..which includes my equal right to care..

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: tony9802
..."Men have not ruled for centuries men have just taken the front and center role for centuries, mostly because it attracts females, and generally where the power goes the females follow, because they like that stuff and it gets a great majority of them off.


Gee whiz.. what is this guy saying..

Truth hurts eh?

I'm all for equality. Take out the trash and go work in some coal mines and see how well 'equality' treats you.

Women around here used to work in the coal mines - but that was before they started shutting them all down and making us all equally broke.

Personally, I know nothing about the coal mining industry, but from the looks of it, it sounds like a very difficult, painstaking, laborious, line of work to be in.. don't let it be a chip on your shoulder though.. lest you give away the displeasure of such proletariat, marxist class position and discontent..

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: tony9802
..."Men have not ruled for centuries men have just taken the front and center role for centuries, mostly because it attracts females, and generally where the power goes the females follow, because they like that stuff and it gets a great majority of them off.


Gee whiz.. what is this guy saying..

Truth hurts eh?

Well as the saying goes: "Behind every great man, there's a powerful and great woman".. try that for governing "front and center," century after century.. By the way, throughout history, for example Christian or European History, there were many numerous examples of leading ladies.. She has held protagonist championing roles throughout, but I wouldn't want to bring those up here on this thread, since it might offend those who who engage in tough, virulent, men's work; those who work endless hours in unsavory "coal mines"..

Don't be upsetting the narrative that women were always downtrodden by the evil patriarchy - it will win you no brownie points, and some feminists might even go so far as to glare at you and kick you out of the club!

Your avatar wears this wondrous British style cloak or cape and I find it all quite interesting given the language that you use in your posts.. in the image of your avatar, you almost attempt to convey, reveal, or support, some type of older, perhaps Victorian, notion or nuance of British and or European decency, civilization, and uprightness.. Are you betraying yourself and your own avatar..

If I were you, I would attempt to re-observe the narrative of "Women in History.." That wouldn't be quite so bad now would it.. Your avatar by the way is missing his Top Hat..or is that he carries a modern rifle, in search of Jihadist Warriors somewhere out there in Ferguson's modern America..

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
And actually a reply to: WhiteAlice

And again, you're not listening.
So I'll just let you keep telling me what and why I am actually saying something.
To fit YOUR narrative none the less.

I'll bet the icmp attacks aren't a first strike move and come after you tell people they need to watch what they say because you're there.

You keep accusing me of things and yet, when I counter, you accuse me of the same things. I really don't see the point of that other than strawman building.

As far as the guy who was ICMP flooding me, he was Korean (as in actually living in Korea) and found my gender to be offensive from the beginning. I personally didn't do anything to the guy other than kick his butt in the game.

I play video games to play video games. No more, no less. I think you keep confusing me with someone who thinks that treating others decently on the net is something that only women should receive. But hey, you keep right on ignoring that because it doesn't suit your own narrative.

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: tony9802
..."Men have not ruled for centuries men have just taken the front and center role for centuries, mostly because it attracts females, and generally where the power goes the females follow, because they like that stuff and it gets a great majority of them off.


Gee whiz.. what is this guy saying..

Truth hurts eh?

I'm all for equality. Take out the trash and go work in some coal mines and see how well 'equality' treats you.

Women around here used to work in the coal mines - but that was before they started shutting them all down and making us all equally broke.

Personally, I know nothing about the coal mining industry, but from the looks of it, it sounds like a very difficult, painstaking, laborious, line of work to be in.. don't let it be a chip on your shoulder though.. lest you give away the displeasure of such proletariat, marxist class position and discontent..

My shoulder? Oh gosh no! I'm not about to go into a hole in the ground and then proceed to dig the walls of it away! I just don't see any percentages in that! The women can have it if they really want it - I'm certainly not going to fight them for it!

I'll stick to less hazardous pastimes, like juggling rattlesnakes or using dynamite in place of nails.

I'm not sure what the reference to marxist is supposed to imply, but yeah, there was a fair amount of that around here years ago - until it finally died out and got burned away.

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: tony9802
..."Men have not ruled for centuries men have just taken the front and center role for centuries, mostly because it attracts females, and generally where the power goes the females follow, because they like that stuff and it gets a great majority of them off.


Gee whiz.. what is this guy saying..

Truth hurts eh?

Well as the saying goes: "Behind every great man, there's a powerful and great woman".. try that for governing "front and center," century after century.. By the way, throughout history, for example Christian or European History, there were many numerous examples of leading ladies.. She has held protagonist championing roles throughout, but I wouldn't want to bring those up here on this thread, since it might offend those who who engage in tough, virulent, men's work; those who work endless hours in unsavory "coal mines"..

Don't be upsetting the narrative that women were always downtrodden by the evil patriarchy - it will win you no brownie points, and some feminists might even go so far as to glare at you and kick you out of the club!

Your avatar wears this wondrous British style cloak or cape and I find it all quite interesting given the language that you use in your posts.. in the image of your avatar, you almost attempt to convey, reveal, or support, some type of older, perhaps Victorian, notion or nuance of British and or European decency, civilization, and uprightness.. Are you betraying yourself and your own avatar..

Apologies if the avatar confuses you - it's probably the glaring light in the background. That's actually a Confederate Cavalry greatcoat of American Civil War vintage. No tophat required, maybe a kepi, perhaps a slouch hat, but certainly no tophat. There was not much British or European about it, nor particular decency, civilization, or uprightness. Mostly blood and smoke and dead guys laying around, and if one got to walk away from it, he'd best hope there was some bright light somewhere to walk into.

The garment in question later went on to provide the design basis for what was called a "slicker" when the west finally got wild.

If I were you, I would attempt to re-observe the narrative of "Women in History.." That wouldn't be quite so bad now would it.. Your avatar by the way is missing his Top Hat..or is that he carries a modern rifle, in search of Jihadist Warriors somewhere out there in Ferguson's modern America..

The only "Ferguson" I know of around here is several miles to the south. he was a British Major Ferguson that took the top of a hill, and said he's wasn't going to budge for the militia surrounding it - actually said that God himself couldn't get him off that hill, and you know, he was right. He's there to this very day, under a really big rock with his name carved on it.

I don't know of any jihadists around here, either - I'll ask my wife about it, because she'd probably be more likely to know... well, maybe I won't ask - she tends to get a bit bent out of shape when folks try to introduce Islam into discussions where it doesn't belong.

I'm not entirely ignorant of historical matters - including those "leading ladies" who tend to upset the feminist's "woe is me - we can't ever get a break" narrative.

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: tony9802
..."Men have not ruled for centuries men have just taken the front and center role for centuries, mostly because it attracts females, and generally where the power goes the females follow, because they like that stuff and it gets a great majority of them off.


Gee whiz.. what is this guy saying..

Truth hurts eh?

I'm all for equality. Take out the trash and go work in some coal mines and see how well 'equality' treats you.

Women around here used to work in the coal mines - but that was before they started shutting them all down and making us all equally broke.

Personally, I know nothing about the coal mining industry, but from the looks of it, it sounds like a very difficult, painstaking, laborious, line of work to be in.. don't let it be a chip on your shoulder though.. lest you give away the displeasure of such proletariat, marxist class position and discontent..

My shoulder? Oh gosh no! I'm not about to go into a hole in the ground and then proceed to dig the walls of it away! I just don't see any percentages in that! The women can have it if they really want it - I'm certainly not going to fight them for it!

I'll stick to less hazardous pastimes, like juggling rattlesnakes or using dynamite in place of nails.

I'm not sure what the reference to marxist is supposed to imply, but yeah, there was a fair amount of that around here years ago - until it finally died out and got burned away.

From the looks of it, you don't even know what a Marxist proletarian coal miner might be... look away my friend, and then reconsider the beautiful British cloak and cape you attempted to originally render..just keep looking for that old sparkle in the eyes..

a reply to: nenothtu


It's nice to hear that you are happily married to your wife.. very good, very nice.. Ferguson, in contrast, has to do with the riots that we have recently been hearing about over here near the city of St. Louis Missouri, where a police officer had killed, due to self defense, someone in that area.. that is what I allude to when I speak about Ferguson..

I am more than thrilled to know that your wife would never tolerate discussions about Jihad militants in your area; She sounds like a very shrewd, healthy wife/mother, trying simply to take care of her family..

Finally, if the cape and cloak your avatar wears is Confederate, then why the discomfort with British notions of Victorian decency and British respect towards women.. Scarlet O'hara as well, had obtained the right to respect and decency had she not?


Gosh, let's all just be good..it's just WW3 starting..

a reply to: tony9802


If men are unable to respect ladies, how on earth are they able to respect themselves..it's such a terrible contradiction..

a reply to: tony9802

Yeah, they actually really do call me "mom". They say it and then ask me if it's alright and that it is because I was like a mom to them in some way. It's been that way since I started gaming and some of those boys from 16 years ago still call me "mom" to this day even now as adults and they're software engineers or lawyers. I've helped them with homework, heart breaks, tough decisions and more. A lot of them come from broken homes or have parents that just don't care. I do my best to fill that gap and never abuse it. I do it because I wished somebody had been there for me when I was growing up. The really tragic part is that they do it because they felt like nobody even cared about them at all.

There's a lot of sad kids in the gaming world. I know that for a fact. People talk about kids playing games that they shouldn't and it's absolutely true. Their parents really don't seem to care at all or worse. These kids seemed like any other kid on a gaming server because, sometimes, they're trying to escape. They don't talk about it and that's the take away. It's been my experience that a whole lot of them are running and that's based off of hundreds of kids over my 16 years of online gaming.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

And you keep twisting things to suit your's.
Imagine that.

Maybe it had more to do with you beating him than you being a woman?
Nnnnnaaaaahhhhh.
There is no such thing as nongendered unsportsmanship.
[/sarc]

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: WhiteAlice

And you keep twisting things to suit your's.
Imagine that.

Maybe it had more to do with you beating him than you being a woman?
Nnnnnaaaaahhhhh.
There is no such thing as nongendered unsportsmanship.
[/sarc]

Anybody can go back and review our exchanges if they like. I have zero problem with it as I'm quite confidant that I replied as clearly as possible to your posts. Again, broken record though.

No, he specifically went off about the fact that I was a woman who was beating him at the game and that was pretty much abhorrent to him. Just a note though, as he was Korean and living in Korea, you could've went with the cultural aspect and said something about women being viewed differently and in more stricter lights in those countries than here. Missed opportunity for you. Oops.

originally posted by: tony9802
If men are unable to respect ladies, how on earth are they able to respect themselves..it's such a terrible contradiction..

I keep thinking of something I'd like to throw out on the table here, and I guess your comments repeatedly offer me an opportunity, so I am going to take it.

You seem to be the only man on this thread supporting a more "old fashioned" approach to women, which I think even the feminists reject- opening doors for women, treating them with more respect and courtesy than one would with men, etc.

Now before I say this, I want to point out that I personally do not feel that should have to be any obligation. I don't feel I need it (as a woman), I am not offended when a man treats me like he would any other man, but neither am I offended when men like you treat me with this type of behavior.

That is because what I have observed is that

We all have so-called masculine and feminine parts to us- the old Yin-Yang. We Have drives towards things like objectification, competition, aggressivity, independance.... as well as drives towards subjectivity, integration, receptivity, interdependance/relation. All humans have both, and we suppress some and express some others. We choose to experience some or the others in a particular context.

The practice of making that effort to be especially considerate and attentive to women gives men an opportunity to express and experience their own feminine qualities. To be receptive, soft, emotionally open, caring, passive, for a moment exiting the demands of their own ego to consider another. Some men appreciate this part theirself and like having a chance to experience it!

Manifesting any quality increases development and mastering of it, as we become more consciously aware of it.

Personally, I think these qualities have value, just as much as the "masculine" qualities do- they both have contexts in which they are more appropriate and effective.

And to get back to the comment I grabbed to respond to, it is beneficial for ones health (both physical and psychological) to gain a balance of them, and know how to be gentle, receptive, integrative towards yourself. Without that development, you get things like stress overload, high blood pressure, heart problems, dissassociative emotional states.

So.... in the way a man treats women, you can see how he treats his own feminine side. If he respects and nurtures his own sensitivity, vulnerability, receptivity, subjectivity, and emotional needs.

This has been one of my biggest gripe with the feminist movement, at least as I was exposed to it in the 70's. Women who wanted to develop and experience their masculine qualities (totally valid choice) but that also felt no one else should value or develop their feminine qualities! Women shouldn't identify with them and act them out, men shouldn't identify with them and act them out. Everyone should just see themselves and others as completely independant, strong, without need of others, of gentleness or of affectionate social exchanges.

_because those qualities are inferior and debasing.

There, I feel, feminists who upheld that notion were ultimately anti-femininity.

And all people, no matter what their gender, suffer from a loss of half of themselves. ESPECIALLY society as a whole, for which relation and cooperation is the binding glue.

If a guy wants to engage in nurturing his softer compassionate side, through opening a door for me, carrying my heavy bags, or standing up when I enter the room, that certainly does nothing bad to me, and I applaud his choice to value and develop that part of himself!

originally posted by: nenothtu


I don't automatically give any man respect, either. He's got to earn it, whether president or janitor. I'm not going to respect anyone just because they were born with a pair of testicles - are you saying I should automatically respect them just because they weren't?

Where's the "equality" in that?

It is really interesting watching the dialogue between you and tony, both coming from such a different perspective, both of you feel that what you are pointing out is painstakingly obvious, yet miles away from understanding each other!


The term "equality" is almost always heard and used by men to mean "same" or identical, in quality.
It can also be used to express different in quality, but same in value... but lets focus on the first interpretation.

Between men focused on developing their masculine qualities of aggressivity, independance, competition, dominance, all vulnerabilities, receptivity, sensitivity, is suppressed and hidden. Those are "weak spots" that the other shall target, as part of destroying confidence in their adversary.

When you spend a large part of your time in this sort of interaction, you can almost forget and lose touch with those parts of yourself and forget you have them at all. You can't respect what you don't acknowledge you have- and you certainly can't respect them in others if you treat others as "equals" (in the sense of "same as me).

Tony seems to be coming from the viewpoint of acknowledging things like vulnerability, openess, compassion are positive qualities to have- in himself and in someone else.

You don't seem to share that view, so can't see how he can suggest that. You are right, in those competative, dominance based interactions with people (be they men or women) there is no place for acknowledging vulnerability. It is not appropriate. It is like boxing, with your hands down- stupid and bound to make you lose. It is not part of the game properly played.

But is there no contexts in life in which the game changes? No part of the day, or with people, in which the gloves come off and we grasp hands warmly, acknowledging each is vulnerable, and agreeing not to punch the weak spots?

In which mutual trust and respect become the name of the game?

Don't get me wrong, I like a good boxing match (either physical or mental) from time to time, and see value in it too!
I am just saying, if one only does that all the time, how can they develop the tenderness and compassion needed for relationships such as parent, caretaker (of young, elderly, handicapped, injured...), brother, son, grandson, nephew, friend...?



-----


On a related note, since aggressive play has been largely repressed from schools and social life, it seems expected that working on those qualities will turn to whatever other context they can be expressed- which turns out to be internet and gaming. We won't rid ourselves of the desire to wrangle this way, it just finds another outlet.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

Isn't putting words in other people's mouths fun?
This analysis of your's speaks obviously of your viewpoint than it ever will about what I am actually saying.
By the simple fact you keep coming up with absolutely off the walls bouts of telling me what I believe and think.
Hell, at times it's exactly opposite of what I actually said.
I can point to exactly why I say anything I have said.
You cannot.
Case in point,

I think you keep confusing me with someone who thinks that treating others decently on the net is something that only women should receive.

I never said anything of the sort.
Show me where supposedly I have, even close to it, so I can show you where you've put words in my mouth.