Russian Tanks Move Across Ukraine Border: NATO Chief Breedlove

a reply to: Xcathdra

Expecting people who rebelled against a corrupt government to follow the proper protocols for war is what's naive. Especially when nations like America and Israel don't follow the rules set by the international community.

OP explained : The West needs and excuse for more sanctions.

Cameron says Russia sanctions could increase over Ukraine

BRISBANE Australia (Reuters) - Russia's actions in eastern Ukraine are unacceptable and could draw greater sanctions from the United States and European Union, British Prime Minister David Cameron said on Friday.

Source

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

OP explained : The West needs and excuse for more sanctions.

No excuse, since Russia has decided they can just do what they want in Ukraine, there will be repercussions...and sanctions are it.

Now all Russia has to do is remove it's weapons and troops from Ukraine and the sanctions stop...it's just that easy, but Putin thinks he is the untouchable so he doesn't care even when it hurt's his people.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Maybe Russia doesn't want to negotiate with terrorists.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Now all Russia has to do is remove it's weapons and troops from Ukraine and the sanctions stop.

Sure, so Kiev can go on with murdering innocent civilians and you can open the champagne again.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Xcathdra

Expecting people who rebelled against a corrupt government to follow the proper protocols for war is what's naive. Especially when nations like America and Israel don't follow the rules set by the international community.

So rebels can commit war crimes and its ok but everything Kiev does is a war crime - check.

The rebels have a choice of where they will engage government forces. They chose to use cities and by doing that they they are just as responsible for civilian deaths as much as Ukraine is.

This is not one of those differing degrees of right and wrong. Assuming it is is in fact naive.


As for corrupt government - Yanukovych was removed and fled. His cronies disbanded the political party and they lost all of their seats in the latest round of elections.

Kiev is no more corrupt than the rebels leaders and Putin.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Maybe Russia doesn't want to negotiate with terrorists.

Then why did Russia push, attend and agree to the Minsk cease fire deal?

Also -
Russia stands by Ukraine ceasefire deal, 'respects' rebel vote

(Reuters) - Russia is committed to the peace process in eastern Ukraine and wants further talks on ending the conflict between government forces and separatists, the Kremlin said on Friday.

Foreign policy adviser Yuri Ushakov also said Russia respects the will of voters in the east after a separatist leadership election regarded as illegitimate by the West.

But, following Western criticism of Moscow's stance on Sunday's vote, Ushakov said Moscow had deliberately chosen the word "respect" rather than "recognize".

...

Asked about the Russian government's use of the word "respect" instead of "recognize" for the Nov 2. elections in eastern Ukraine, he said: "These are different words."

"The word 'respect' was chosen deliberately ... We fundamentally respect the will of the voters," he said.

Either Russia does not work with terrorists either, being they do not recognize the vote in south and east Ukraine or they are once again lying to everyone in an effort to not get tagged with outright supporting the rebels..


someone should ask that question to Putin so we can see which one of his 2 faces he would like to answer the question with.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: victor7
Feel free to link us to your source that gives a break down on the casualty list.
Also stop accusing me of BS crap you have absolutely no way of supporting - Its getting old.

Whilst doing your research to dig up propaganda I fail to believe that you have not seen pictures of shell holes in lots of buildings in the east of the Ukraine so like a Nazi propagandist you would like to excuse this as the rebels killing themselves.

You will have to find your own links but I could find one for you that says its gets dark at night in case you want to argue.

Either Russia does not work with terrorists either, being they do not recognize the vote in south and east Ukraine or they are once again lying to everyone in an effort to not get tagged with outright supporting the rebels..

In your book Russia is stuffed no matter what it does and yes the USA is now viewed by many as a terrorist nation after all its war and being caught giving guns to ISIS.

Double talk from the Pentagon says that president Assad in Syria is helping the terrorists well that's strange because the last time I looked they were trying to kill him but yes I know in your world rebels in the Ukraine attack their own people right.

So rebels can commit war crimes and its ok but everything Kiev does is a war crime - check.

The biggest war crime that everyone knows about is the Nazis chasing people into a building and burning them alive where more than 50 people died but I am sure you can balance that out in your mind because the rebels gave someone a kicking after they caught them bombing civilians

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Now all Russia has to do is remove it's weapons and troops from Ukraine and the sanctions stop...it's just that easy, but Putin thinks he is the untouchable so he doesn't care even when it hurt's his people.

Sorry man but when your man says jump, Putin's not asking how high or even jumping and his main trouble is that Russians are now demanding that Putin protects the east of the Ukraine so it is they who will force his hand and not the other way around like you suggest.

Well these sanctions are not being imposed by everyone and the USA is getting in $hit with farmers in Europe that can no longer export crops to Russia and France not only faces possible fines of $3bn for not meeting its order for $1.4bn ships but has damaged its reputation to sell military hardware to other countries.

The EU is in such good financial state that it cannot even afford to compensate the farmers or even half of the costs the French ship builders losses so I think the USA has shoot itself in the foot on these sanctions and is not only losing friends but also has lost the battle to force oil prices down to hurt Russia who three days ago signed yet another massive gas deal with China.

Sanctions are an act of war so you know who to blame if bombs start dropping on your head

a reply to: Xcathdra

Kiev is no more corrupt than the rebels leaders and Putin.

I'm not idealizing Putin, but Kiev is more corrupt because they collaborate with the true nazis from Fashington.

a reply to: Xcathdra

"So rebels can commit war crimes and its ok but everything Kiev does is a war crime - check. "

Never said that at all. It's fine. I don't know why I engage in your threads at all. America is great. Russia is evil. Carry on.

a reply to: canucks555

If you feel that way then I am sure russia would have no issues returning Kaliningrad back to Germany.

There are some Germans that understand who is the real threat. And who made ww1 ww2 and now trying to make ww3.
Some Germans understand


youtu.be...

36 invasions till now:

It’s a long, long list…

February 28, 2014: Ukraine Accuses Russia Of Invasion, Considers State Of Emergency After Masked Gunmen Occupy Two Crimean Airports.

March 2, 2014: Sarah Palin Predicted Ukraine Invasion in 2008

March 3, 2014: Russian Invasion of Crimean Peninsula. Movements and Forces

March 3, 2014: Why Did Russia Invade Ukraine? Because The West Is Weak

March 13, 2014: Russian Troops Mass at Border With Ukraine. Possible Invasion

March 15, 2014: Ukraine Says It Has Repelled A Russian Army “Invasion”

March 18, 2014: Ukraine Hikes Tensions Again, Says Russian Army Concentrated Near East Border For “Quick Invasion”

March 30, 2014: Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine could happen ‘any day’, officials warn

April 4, 104: Ukraine Defense Ministry “Warns” Of Imminent Russian Invasion

May 1, 2014: Ukraine minister: Russia planning invasion

May 21, 2014: Despite Withdrawal, Russian Invasion of Eastern Ukraine Still Possible

May 30, 2014: Russians Invade Donetsk (VIDEO)

June 2, 2014: U.S., Europe may have prevented invasion of Ukraine, Polish foreign minister says

June 14, 2014: Russia’s slow invasion of Ukraine

June 20, 2014: Open Russian invasion into Ukraine has begun

July 30, 2014: Putin could invade Ukraine in response to sanctions

August 05, 2014: Poland’s Sikorski Saying Russian Units Are Poised to Pressure or Invade Ukraine, Sees ‘Huge’ Escalation of Crisis if This Happened

August 6, 2014: Ukraine crisis: Nato fears invasion as Russian troops ‘mass on Ukraine’s borders’

August 6, 2014: Growing threat of Russia invading Ukraine, Hagel says

August 14, 2014: Russian aid convoy blocked as Ukraine fears invasion pretext

August 14, 2014: Russia’s invasion of Ukraine continues

August 22, 2014: Russian Humanitarian Convoy Enters Ukraine Without Authorization; Ukraine Considers Move “Direct Invasion”

August 25, 2014: Russia Prepares 2nd Humanitarian Convoy “Invasion”

August 27, 2014: Ukraine Reports Russian Invasion on a New Front

August 28, 2014: Ukraine Accuses Russia Of Launching Invasion, Then Promptly Retracts

August 28, 2014: NATO Releases Satellite Imagery “Proof” That Russia Has Invaded Ukraine

August 28, 2014: Has Russia invaded Ukraine? Here’s what we know

August 28, 2014: Poroshenko says Russia invaded Ukraine

August 29, 2014: U.S. official says 1,000 Russian troops have entered Ukraine

August 29, 2014: Russia’s Slow-Motion Invasion of Ukraine

August 30, 2014: European leaders warn Russian invasion of east Ukraine at ‘a point of no return’

September 2, 2014: The State Department Says Russia Is Invading Ukraine—Should We Believe It?

September 4, 2014: Invasion of Ukraine Continues; Russian Ideologist Calls for “Genocide”

October 3, 2014: Can US Support for Ukraine Help Prevent a New Russian Invasion?

November 8, 2014: NATO Sees ‘High Probability’ Of Russian Invasion Of Ukraine

November 12, 2014: Ukraine’s Ambassador to the UN says Russia planning full-scale invasion

a reply to: maghun

yup...

RT - Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea

a reply to: Xcathdra

Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea

...for decades.

I think we need to remember why Kiev sent in troops in the first place - it was because armed gangs seized public buildings, took control of towns and started murdering those who dared speak out against what they were doing

www.theguardian.com...

We might also ask why it is that this week Russia sent vehicles into Ukraine to collect the bodies of dead Russian soldiers ....

www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: tavi45

Maybe Russia doesn't want to negotiate with terrorists.

And yet they are financing them in Ukraine.

a reply to: VirusGuard

Well these sanctions are not being imposed by everyone and the USA is getting in $hit with farmers in Europe that can no longer export crops to Russia and France not only faces possible fines of $3bn for not meeting its order for $1.4bn ships but has damaged its reputation to sell military hardware to other countries.

And the reason all that happened is what...that's right Russia's invasion and annexation of Crimea. I doubt France will have a problem selling military hardware because of the stance against what RUssia did in Ukraine.

The EU is in such good financial state that it cannot even afford to compensate the farmers or even half of the costs the French ship builders losses so I think the USA has shoot itself in the foot on these sanctions and is not only losing friends but also has lost the battle to force oil prices down to hurt Russia who three days ago signed yet another massive gas deal with China.

Have you seen the price of gas as of late...I would say the prices have fallen, and exactly what friends are the US losing...NK, Venezuela, China, Iran?

Sanctions are an act of war so you know who to blame if bombs start dropping on your head

No sanctions are a consequence of war not an act of it.

Yes Putin...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. People in America seem to forget that. If I was Russian, Kiev would be terrorists to me.

a reply to: AndyMayhew

www.theguardian.com...
www.bbc.co.uk...

Propaganda...propaganda...propaganda.

It's all western propaganda, because it isn't true unless it came from Russian media...you should know that.