Russian Tanks Move Across Ukraine Border: NATO Chief Breedlove

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

there is nothing to fume about. i have already stated that i believe these types of discussions are frivolous.

i only put facts in quotes because they are usually half baked. its idiotic to think Russia hasn't sent aid to Ukraine. the east Ukrainian military commanders are most likely right out of the Russian military. also many Russian service men came to Ukraine "on their own accord" to help the Ukrainians in the east. but doesn't it seem odd to you that the information given is always so... incomplete. no photos, many pieces of evidence are blatantly false, and sometimes evidence is presented with almost no context. ive seen two videos of supposed russian convoys but nothing in the video shows how or why the convoy is russian. the US can unequivocally prove if russia is or isnt funneling arms and vehicles into ukraine, yet they dont really try too hard to do it. it stinks. the root of this conflict should not be this hard to figure out. it simply doesn't add up.

a reply to: Xcathdra

This thread is about Russian military units entering Ukraine.

And you have provided no proof, not this time, not the last time and nor has the BBC for the tenth time.

Sooner or later you will be right I hope because I think its high time that Putin did something to make Kiev pay for the mass murders and burning people alive in the east but you know even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You tried to deceive people with a UN link so I won't be viewing anymore of your links so maybe you would like to give us your logic as to why Russia is invading this time but didn't the last time or the time before that.

Please Xcathdra show me this proof of this great Russian invasion and not speculation , Could, Maybe and lies or like me wait for an emergency UN meeting or an announcement coming from the lips of Putin but falling that and if you are a bit early than at least show me something that can be compared to the invasion of any Japanese island during WWII

a reply to: VirusGuard

So, you're unwilling to click any links provided by Xcathdra, you're unwilling to believe a UN Emergency Meeting has already happened despite the multiple, varied source saying that this in fact happen, even ITAR-TASS reported it. You accuse even the Russian Defense Minister of spinning western propaganda, and have stated right now that short of Putin himself coming on TV and saying "da, we've invaded Ukraine. Deal with it.", you won't believe anything we put up as proof.

You'll discount photo evidence as faked or taken elsewhere
You'll discount video evidence as faked by Kiev
You'll discount satellite evidence as either not at the location it was claimed to be from or fabricated entirely.
You'll discount multiple news sources, OSCE officials, and the entirety of the UN Security Council (except Russia of course) saying that the Russian military is acting in Ukraine.

How then, are your thoughts or opinions on the matter valid? Why should we even bother listening to your side of the story, when everything that's put in front your face has either been brushed aside or entirely ignored?

a reply to: Xcathdra

youtu.be...


The person speaking in the beginning is Christoph Leitl, president of the Austrian Federal Economic Chamber]
Leitl: In the year 1914, Mr. President Putin, part of Ukraine was with Austria.
Putin: [pensive pause] What is that supposed to mean? / What do you mean by that?
[laughter]
Leitl: It's-...
Putin [interrupting]: What proposals do you have?
[Leitl laughs]
Leitl: It's supposed to mean that Ukraine, today, 100 years later, is part of an economic-...
Putin: I'm already scared to hear with what he's going to continue
[Leitl laughs again while Austrian president Heinz Fischer pets Putin's shoulder appeasingly]

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: Xcathdra

Actually I think his strategy is rather brilliant. Slowly build up forces in the country you're invading while all the while miring the whole situation down with politics and legalities, use your veto power to stop any concrete action beyond sanctions from taking place, and when the time is right, you've got everyone you need exactly where you need them and nobody did anything to stop you aside from proselytize at the UN Pulpit.

Then bring the hammer down.

The reason the strategy works so well is because of Ukraine's close ties with Russia. Ukraine's military is completely stocked with Russian hardware. That is why simply wiping insignias works so well for Russia. They can simply claim the rebels acquired the gear from a Ukrainian base.

There have been more than a few slip ups, such as modern Russian tanks, artillery, and other weapons and equipment being photographed and documented inside of Ukrainian borders. But we all know the Russian propaganda machine will simply deny such things, or claim they are western fabrications.

Putin has executed this effort flawlessly. He played it extremely well in conjunction with other geopolitical events (such as Syria). If there is one thing I can say about him, it's that he is a master chess player on the international stage. Something his western counterpart seems to lack.

originally posted by: WineWithIce5
a reply to: DJW001

Since Xcathdra must be busy spewing his vile opinions on other sites.

Let me ask you.

Why should I be pro US and pro NATO

When I know 9/11 was inside job. When I know arming of Syrian rebels created ISIS and so on.

Can you answer that Mr. mini Xcathdra

I am pro information.

I am pro data.

Why does the UN meeting have to be US/NATO vs Russia?

Can't it be a factual meeting about Russia military equipment inside Ukraine, without bias one way or the other.

I don't care "why", because "why" is subjective (individual) and susceptible to lies (justifications), however, factual evidence/data/information the "what" of a matter I care about deeply because it is real.

Is there Russian military equipment currently inside Ukraine's sovereign territory?

That is all I want to know, not each sides reasoning behind the facts, or who is "right" in their own eyes for such action. Either the UN charter was broken or it was not.

Black or White = "what"
Grey = "why"

God Bless,

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
Putin has executed this effort flawlessly. He played it extremely well in conjunction with other geopolitical events (such as Syria). If there is one thing I can say about him, it's that he is a master chess player on the international stage. Something his western counterpart seems to lack.

It's not that his western counterparts lack the skill, they lack the board.

It is extremely hard to combat political strategies developed for 5 year, 10 year, 15 year, or even longer with a political environment that is geared to 4 years, and in the primary case, an 8 year maximum.

No, this does not mean that I endorse longer terms.

originally posted by: DJW001
Here is a map showing recent engagements.

Looks like a map of a clay pigeon shoot to me drawn up by a kid but when you say "engagements" are you talking about small army's fire or a full on clash with convoys being taken out, blown to bits, smoke fire.

The reason I ask is because these burnt out vehicles and tracks could be viewed by satellites, recognisance flights or even someone with a smart phone or a camera crew (They are in the area you know) but they haven't and I think we both know why not.

You see what concerns me is that Kiev has already said before, months back they had destroyed a large column of Russian tanks and yet we have never seen a single picture of the carnage and we are still waiting.

it's a bit like 9/11 where the laws of physics need to be changed to support the story or Russia now has some type of stealth that we don't understand.

courtesy of The New York Times.

They won't be bias then but then if you look at the bottom of the picture in the article that has been positioned on the page to look like it came from NATO it says

Sources: Ukrainian Council of National Security and Defense; Pro-Russian separatist leaders

So where did this map come from if not a child's drawing because I fail to believe it was a join effort between Kiev and the rebels in the east.

a reply to: peck420

I see what you're getting at. But I'm not sure it really matters. It's the same old same old. Everyone knew who Medvedev answered to.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: peck420

I see what you're getting at. But I'm not sure it really matters. It's the same old same old. Everyone knew who Medvedev answered to.

Sorry, I don't think I was clear enough.

That is my point. Russia and China (and a host of other countries) can lay out long political, economic, and military strategies because they can have a single 'leader' throughout the entire strategy.

Western nations don't get that luxury. And, the more polarized our political environment gets, the more necessary it is to have an entire strategy play out with in the political term, as you are pretty much guaranteed to have the next person disrupt, change, or outright end the existing strategy.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

you're unwilling to believe a UN Emergency Meeting has already happened

They have a few of these each year and sometimes it only takes hours from proposal to the meeting takes place and was Russia to invade then yes we would have one in days if not hours however that was not what your man linked to in his effort to deceive people because the meeting was about some letter send to the UN on the 28th Feb

"Emergency Meeting" Don't take six months like I say and an emergency meeting did not take place yesterday else it would had been plastered all over the TV news and everyone would know about it.

How many more times must I say.

a reply to: peck420

You made yourself perfectly clear peck. I guess I just see things as being more of the same, since the U.S kept in step with Russia throughout the cold war despite the differences in their economic and electoral systems.

It's a different world today. Personally, I found myself resonating with something railgun said earlier. Something to the effect of hoping for Russia to be part of the big picture before it's decisions in the Ukraine. Perhaps that was naive of me.

a reply to: VirusGuard

It was an emergency UN meeting called by the US.

i find it amazing that you maintain this position even after russia media is telling you that you are wrong. It certainly gives insight into your thought process and just how unrealistic it can be.

a reply to: Xcathdra

It was an emergency UN meeting called by the US.

So an emergency meeting is based on a letter from the 28th Feb ? Yes sure sounds like an emergency to me so why was it not live all over the TV like happens usually when a war is started and why did the website not have "UN Emergency meeting" on it in big red bold text.

These are simple questions and I would like a simple answer.

a reply to: VirusGuard

Do you want Putin to personally call you and tell you it was a UN Emergency Meeting?

Or would not believe even him?

Please Xcathdra show me this proof of this great Russian invasion and not speculation

Crimea. to start. You don't agree that Russia has taken it over? Strange
Also, again people, where are the rebels getting their heavy weapons?
Where exactly are all these Russians dying? (There are funerals every day)

I noticed that this thread is still prickly even after the mod warning. Lets keep it clean.
(posts and private messages)

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Do you want Putin to personally call you and tell you it was a UN Emergency Meeting?

That would be so nice but a link from you would do the job but not to a vid-stream thank you

You keep ignoring the date of 28th of Feb ? Have you something to hide

a reply to: VirusGuard

I already did that. A lot. Multiple times, but in case you missed it, here it is again.
Is ITAR-TASS lying too?
How about Daily Sabah?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: VirusGuard

ABC News
StreetInsider
Washington Post
Oh Look Even ITAR-TASS
The World Bulletin
Daily Sabah

a reply to: canucks555

Crimea. to start. You don't agree that Russia has taken it over?

The people of Crimea voted to return to Russia, no one pointed a gun at their heads and the trouble in the East Ukraine is they too want a vote and we all know who they want to vote for after 50 or more got burnt alive.

Its a bit like saying the democrats have taken over but that's not like what the USA did in Iraq is it where they charge in guns blaring "To win hearts and minds" and then install a puppet government which they have to leave a army behind to defend because the people don't want them.

The USA has become the bully of the world and always wants to play with someone else's ball but this time someone has stood up to him who's closer to his own age and size, that man is Putin and the other kids in the playground see him as a Hero.

This Bully needs to go home (Out of Europe, out of everywhere) and shut up because if Putin does take him down then all the other little kids are going to want some payback too.

a reply to: VirusGuard

Your posts are getting funnier and funnier.

From your intentional ignorance on the emergency UN meeting that you refuse to acknowledge to you demanding the US go home so Russia can do whatever it wants.

They lost the cold war... They will lose a second cold war and if Putler is stupid enough to start a war he wont win.

and no the people of Crimea did not vote.