Tired Of The Propaganda - "Support The Troops"

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

Funny, I thought the reason I had freedom of expression is because of the constitution.

And the United States Army.

They have lost every conflict they have been in for the last 50 years.

Freedom comes easy, I guess.

How so?

Just because politicians tie the hands of the Army and make political decisions in war doesn't mean we lost. The problem with modern day political thinking, and the Hollywood view of war is that people think there's a nice way to go and kill people. There isn't. And when it isn't palatable, politicians run away from it.

Every time they send you to war.... every time they are wrong... at what point does a military man say "enough is enough!"?

Never.

If the Army starts making its own decisions then every fear of tyranny you and I have will come to fruition.

I didn't mean the military as a whole, I meant a military man

However, you did remind me of Egypt. I don't know the politics and I'm not even sure if it was sincere, but when the Egyptian army rolled in and the people jumped all over their tanks cheering, it brought a tear to my eye.

a reply to: TDawgRex

I am subject to the laws of and opinions(right or wrong) of society. Just because you and I don't pay attention to the crap the media blows up our collective asses every second doesn't mean the general public doesn't also and those are the people who shape the way things are, not us supposedly "enlightened" few on ATS.

I have to live in this world and I'm told pretty much every minute of every day, in a million ways, that my opinions are wrong because I don't play the game. So yeah, I take exception to that and damned if I'm not going to fight back. I don't have to support anything I don't agree with when I have facts to back up every thing I say.

I can't change anything, dammit. Why do people keep trying to tell me that? Local, state, federal, international, I can't change a bloody thing. The system is rigged, so how could I do anything?

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

OP? You have every right to say, think whatever you want.

I'd like to take the time and say thank you to everyone who did serve. That is my right.

*salute*

Well, thanks.

In general, I don't bring it up, because as our chaplain once said, there's no point to ever mentioning it, if they served, you don't need to tell 'em, if they didn't, you can't explain it to 'em.

The US military is controlled by the politicians. If you don't like it and you're a citizen, vote for what you'd like. If you don't want a big military, great. Vote for people who don't want that. If you want a military presence, great. Vote for the politicians who agree with you.

But be clear about the ramifications, either way. A weak untrained inexperienced military can be quite dangerous. Pols who have never been IN the military often do not understand the ramp-up time if you suddenly need one. Especially if you need some highly skilled troops.

What comes to mind is a current pol who said in an interview "We should immediately increase the number of special operations personnel, and reduce the troops in the field". And the interview with an unnamed SF Captain who replied on the news "I don't think the # understands that it takes about 5 years to train one".

You can't wave your little hands and say "Let there be trained military". Doesn't work that way. So if you reduce the US military to a token, you get crap if you need them suddenly.

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
I have to live in this world and I'm told pretty much every minute of every day, in a million ways, that my opinions are wrong because I don't play the game.

Any chance you're not the one enlightened person, and you're just...wrong?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

I didn't mean the military as a whole, I meant a military man

Military is made up of individuals who are, by and large, on the same sheet of music. They have to be. A well regulated and disciplined military is necessary to stave off the kind of tyranny you see in military dictatorships.

Egyptians have a high degree of respect for their military. The have a long tradition of subservient military power to civilian leadership.

There is a lot of anger being thrown around in this thread. I'll go ahead and add my two cents.

I don't support the "troops". I support the soldier. The soldier who joined, willingly, with the intent to protect me and mine. The soldier who, even if they didn't educate themselves about the many unscrupulous things the U.S. Military does, vowed with their idealistic heart to protect the people and the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. I do not, however, support the soldier who joins because he can't find a job, or faces a jail sentence otherwise.

Now, I'm an ex-pat, so the nearest military base to me is Okinawa. I have to say, about 90% of the crime committed on Okinawa is by U.S. Military members. Those are soldiers I have NO respect for, and will be quite vocal about it.

So, to those of you who are currently serving, or have served in that idealistic (yet misguided in today's world) notion of protecting the U.S. from harm, I salute.

To those who joined for an excuse to put a bullet in a "raghead", here's my finger instead.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
After three years, I had enough of the nonsense and got out.

In ways, I wish I hadn't met either Sergeant Errol or Sergeant Griffin.

They both told me I'd get enough and bail if I didn't follow their other advice. Either have enough or end up killed in action. Both of them gave me advice, and I followed it.

You can get to a place where nonsense is minimized. But like anything, you end up with yet other issues. Alas.

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
a reply to: TDawgRex



I can't change anything, dammit. Why do people keep trying to tell me that? Local, state, federal, international, I can't change a bloody thing. The system is rigged, so how could I do anything?

If YOU can't change anything then how is a soldier going to? This is just you blaming everyone else for all of your problems. This is just the cries of a child lashing out. If you feel that strongly about it then do what most people who are serious do and protest. Worked for gay marriage and working for abortion. They changed things whether you agree with it or not. So why can't you? Probably because you are too lazy to organize a protest or a movement. Takes a lot of work I know.

a reply to: WanderingSage

Yep, everything is my fault, geez, where have you been all my life? Like I haven't heard that crap before.

I'm making a stand that is alienating me from society and making it nearly impossible for me to exist. You should try it and see what happens. Again, just look at Aaron Swartz and what happened to him. He had to kill himself to end his persecution by our government all because he tried to show the American people what the law in this country actually is(that is, if those were his intentions and we will never really know but that is the most likely case).

a reply to: Bedlam

Dude, the voting process is rigged and has been since probably the beginning of voting. Really, that's hogwash.

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
a reply to: TDawgRex

I am subject to the laws of and opinions(right or wrong) of society. Just because you and I don't pay attention to the crap the media blows up our collective asses every second doesn't mean the general public doesn't also and those are the people who shape the way things are, not us supposedly "enlightened" few on ATS.

I have to live in this world and I'm told pretty much every minute of every day, in a million ways, that my opinions are wrong because I don't play the game. So yeah, I take exception to that and damned if I'm not going to fight back. I don't have to support anything I don't agree with when I have facts to back up every thing I say.

I can't change anything, dammit. Why do people keep trying to tell me that? Local, state, federal, international, I can't change a bloody thing. The system is rigged, so how could I do anything?

I didn't say I don't pay attention to what the media spews, I said I ignore it. There is a big difference. I also listen and chose to hear or ignore what others tell me how I should think.

Why do you feel like you are personally under attack? Because you chose so...that's why. And you can change things. I went from being homeless at 17 to retiring at 48. No, I didn't win the lottery, I just learned to play the game of life. And I have had a impact on others lives as well, some for better and some for worse.

Time to wake up.

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

I can't change anything, dammit. Why do people keep trying to tell me that? Local, state, federal, international, I can't change a bloody thing. The system is rigged, so how could I do anything?

I absolutely hate that you have this attitude.

Then you turn around and put the burden on others. In this case, me as a soldier, for the ills you perceive(as do we all) in the world.

Carry your own damn weight. Then help others.

If there's one way you and I differ is that I don't understand giving up. I don't understand, nor do I accept defeat. You seem content with it as a way of life.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

Funny, I thought the reason I had freedom of expression is because of the constitution.

And the United States Army.

They have lost every conflict they have been in for the last 50 years.

Freedom comes easy, I guess.

How so?

Just because politicians tie the hands of the Army and make political decisions in war doesn't mean we lost. The problem with modern day political thinking, and the Hollywood view of war is that people think there's a nice way to go and kill people. There isn't. And when it isn't palatable, politicians run away from it.

Every time they send you to war.... every time they are wrong... at what point does a military man say "enough is enough!"?

Firstly, I disagree with the statement "every time they are wrong."

Secondly, you don't want the military to stop obeying the lawful orders of the politicians because when you do, you get what you do not want--a military dictatorship. There is a reason why the US is one of the few countries that has never, in it's entire existence, had a military coup and civilian control of the military is it.

Ok. When were they right?

And when the politicians become tyrants?...

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher
without support of troops you would have been drafted. You might be serving Hitler now. You would not be free to post your thoughts on the internet. Chaos would reign.

You can't have a military to protect your way of life if the guys in it refuse to follow orders. What our politicians order them to do is not their choice and you can't have a military that won't follow orders even when they don't like the orders.

What your supporting is their willingness to give their life to protect you. You are not supporting what the President orders them to do.

Your beef is with our President and the US constitution that allows Presidents to misuse the armed forces. Basically that means you don't support your own government.

We cannot ask our armed forces to pick and choose what orders they follow because that would result in chaos.

Take your hate up with those who are abusing their position and our Constitution and not the folks who have taken an oath to protect you with their very life.

American it's freedoms and all its flaws would not exist without support for troops.

You might be getting beheaded about now without them. Deny 8 you like but it is the facts.

if you can't see the sensibility in my statements your not an American at heart. You can leave you know.

a reply to: WanderingSage

Seriously, if only you knew how stupid that sounds. Come here to Las Vegas, where no one gives a spit, and protest. NO ONE CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could shout all day from the highest casino and no one would hear, no one would know and no one would care even if they could hear me.

Like all that OWS protesting did anything anyway. Or any other protest, most of which aren't even covered my our illustrious MSM.

So don't give me that voting or protest crap. All I would do is get myself killed or worse and no one would be the wiser.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I do not, however, support the soldier who joins because he can't find a job, or faces a jail sentence otherwise.

Now, I'm an ex-pat, so the nearest military base to me is Okinawa. I have to say, about 90% of the crime committed on Okinawa is by U.S. Military members. Those are soldiers I have NO respect for, and will be quite vocal about it.

The old "go to jail or join the military" thing ended with the Vietnam conflict, if it was true then.

Okinawa is a Marine issue. As an Army guy, I'd have to say, Marines, go figure.

In the place i spent most of my time overseas, which would be a bit south of Munich, I'd have to say the polizei dealt with such problems efficiently, and with total professionalism. I have nothing but apologies for the few polizei I ever came into adversarial contact with. I never gave them any sass. They had plenty of issues with us, but were always calm and totally professional.

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

All the problems in YOUR life is YOUR fault and it doesn't surprise that you have heard it before. Like I said organize a movement. I have taken a stand by the way. I don't need to explain myself to you. You have alienated yourself. We are a melting pot of beliefs and cultures and are pretty accepting of people's beliefs, but the way to portray yourself is why you have been alienated. Everything is about perception.

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
a reply to: Bedlam

Dude, the voting process is rigged and has been since probably the beginning of voting. Really, that's hogwash.

Yep, the only enlightened one.

I note you didn't answer the question. You sort of strawmanned it. You're a sort of Cassandra - doomed to be the only one who knows the truth, yet condemned to be ignored. Alas.

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

Then go somewhere people would listen. I went to DC from Alabama to join the Occupy movement 3 years ago. Oh wait that would require more effort so you can't do that. I don't know then. You're right everything is hopeless. Let's just go on ATS and whine about everything because that seems to help. HAHA

BTW the Occupy Wall Street protestors tried unlike what you are doing. They actually tried to do something.

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
a reply to: WanderingSage

Yep, everything is my fault, geez, where have you been all my life? Like I haven't heard that crap before.

I'm making a stand that is alienating me from society and making it nearly impossible for me to exist.

Would that be the "I'm the only one who understands what's going on...and I'm swamped by ennui, nothing really changes, oh, la!" position?