Tired Of The Propaganda - "Support The Troops"

Your absolutely right. There is no excuse for a person to get on a plane or ship, go to someone else s country and start shooting, maiming, bombing or any other action of violence and death or giving any kind of support to the ones doing the maiming and killing. This is quite clear to anyone who has anything above and beyond mashed potatoes in their cranial cavity.

If a person joins the military for the right reason (which would be to defend our freedom) then they should simply refuse to leave the country and instead turn their attentions towards the federal government (all branches), lobbyists, the federal reserve, the nsa, cia, fbi and any other entity that is actively assaulting the rights, freedoms and general prosperity of we the people.

Commanding officer doesn't like it? Arrest him and anyone else in who opposes as they are also criminally complicit.

Someone said in one of these posts that the armed forces fight so that we don't have to. That is ridiculous! It is the armed forces lack of fighting our enemies that will eventually (possibly) force us the people to fight. Hell, they are taking orders from our enemies! To add insult to injury it is likely that it is the armed forces that will be fighting against us in order to protect the very enemies that are assaulting all of us including the service men and their families. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

The armed forces are to the world what the police are to the U.S. Basically just a control mechanism to impose with brute force the will of the wealthy few on to the comparatively impoverished many. Anyone joining at this point in time or staying in willingly is in my opinion a traitor to freedom, peace and prosperity.

We all know (most of us anyway) who the bad guys are now and it's not the russians, arabs or north koreans for God's sake. If you choose to fight for an evil empire then you are just a hired criminal thug no better than an inner city gang banger fighting for his bosses turf.

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
This had been pissing me off for a while now. I'm really tired of being told that our troops are fighting for our rights, that they are fighting to bring Democracy to other nations, that they are fighting to keep us safe when nothing could be further from the truth. Then we are told that if we don't support them and what they are doing we are unpatriotic or worse.

Endless sporting events with veterans and active personnel there, then the announcers and sports talk jump on the bandwagon and tell us how grateful they are for them. I watch lots of ESPN and they are blatant with this junk, everyone praising our troops.

Bull. Friiking. Crap.

It's blatant propaganda and it pisses me off that I'm not considered a "good" American because I don't support our troops. How can I when anyone with a internet connection can take five minutes and learn how "WAR IS A RACKET!!!!!!" - courtesy of one Gen. Smedley Butler.

If you are too stupid to use the resources available to you to learn anything and choose to go fight in corporate wars then that is on you and you get all you deserve. I will not support you, at all. I usually say something like "I'm sorry,but...." but there's no I'm sorry here. I won't be sorry for people who kill for a government that doesn't care one whit about it's citizens unless they are billionaires(whom also reap the benefits of our wars).

Go ahead and try and guilt me into your position, it won't work. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but there is no way I can support troops fighting wars that are for profit and in now way, shape or form protect me or my rights. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired of being told I'm no good, that I'm just a tin-foil hat wearing fool, that my opinion doesn't matter because I don't buy into the propaganda we are being sold.

Exactly, I am with you and have been since I first heard "support our troops."

It is nothing but a manipulation and propaganda sound bite.

Oh, what, you don't like our lies about why we are going to war and the innocent people dying on both sides, including naive soldiers? Why, how dare you abuse and not support our troops?

As if because there are people involved we can never question anything because someone's feelings might get hurt. If something evil is happening, we have the right and duty to say something.

Moreover, I strongly feel that those of us who call out the politicians, question the illegal and unethical wars, and call for an end to such foreign policy TRULY support the troops. We don't want people to be sent to die nor kill for unethical ends. It is the politicians who lie to the troops and public, sending them to die or be scarred, that don't "support the troops."

Every time I saw that bumper sticker I wanted to tear it off..

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Thank you for exercising your rights that I've helped protect for the last 17 years.

Sorry, with all due respect, you didn't fight for that right the last 17 years.

This is another lie that they tell the military and use as a sound bite to suppress protest.

The wars you fought in were all for US global empire, greed, power, geo-political control, and so on. They had nothing to do with protecting our freedom of speech nor our self-defense.

I suggest you look into the history of American interventionism.

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I for one am thankful that there are troops readily available to fight for your right to express that opinion if the need ever arises.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Again, this is a propaganda sound bite that you appear to have bought hook, line, and sinker. This is a manufactured sound bite.

THe wars for the past 60 years or so have had nothing to do with legitimate American self-defense and everything to do with the US asserting, attaining, and retaining geo-political hegemony.

In fact, many of the efforts and wars specifically were evil because they oppressed the human rights of people's worldwide. Did you know that? That the "freedom-fighting military" was overthrowing democratically elected governments and installing compliant dictators? Dictators that instituted death squads, disappeared people, and so on?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: projectvxn

Of course he is right. I knew that when I was in Iraq back in 05, I was doing nothing to protect American citizens over there. But man it's kind of poor form to complain about the military on Veteran's Day.

I understand that it is uncomfortable and a day that would seem bad to do it on. But what better of a day to reflect on the propaganda surrounding "support our troops" and the lies of war.

I wholeheartedly believe that such conversations, including calling for an end to an evil foreign policy, is the only way one is truly "supporting the troops" and their families.

Anything else.. is not.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

No, you didn't. But the media tells me all the time that I should support people who are doing something I find morally reprehensible.

I do the job most people find morally reprehensible. But for the sake of argument, lets say one day there is a mortal threat on our shores. My job wouldn't be any less reprehensible. But I'll bet you'll be glad I'm doing it.

I also never asked you to go and do what you do. You bitch just as much as the rest of us about what is going down in this country(I've seen your posts, just because I don't post all the time doesn't mean I don't know what's going on around ATS) which is totally corrupt, city, state and federal yet you are fighting to preserve the elites hold on the status quo.

I do no such thing. Corruption is as repugnant to me as it is to you. But service to my nation is not.

Just wait until you come home and see what you were fighting those infidels for.

We're the infidels. If they had their way, regardless of how you view their side, they'd kill you just to watch you bleed.

Been home for several months now, and all I see is the same people complaining about the same stuff and never doing anything about it.

Gotta wonder if you even voted? When was the last time you showed up to a city council meeting? When was the last time you really got involved in your community?

Next you'll ask why I'm not storming the White House guns blazing? Effecting your idea of change at the barrel of my gun, on your behalf?

Simple, I don't feel the need to carry your weight too.

But see, if soldiers were only fighting in wars that were truly for serious self-defense, I would be ALL for it. In fact, I would join up if we really needed it. For a JUST war. We haven't had one of those in decades.

We are criticizing the government and the soldiers who know what is going on for the actual foreign policy, not some hypothetical other situation.

Why do you think that, in a democracy, the public should NOT expect the US government and military to uphold international law, only fight ethical wars, and uphold the universal human rights outlined briefly in the Constitution?

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

But see, if soldiers were only fighting in wars that were truly for serious self-defense, I would be ALL for it. In fact, I would join up if we really needed it. For a JUST war. We haven't had one of those in decades.

Never believed that we were. But PLEASE accept my FIRST HAND experience when I say that what I did was for the Afghan people. Every single day. Fromintelligence reports to engagements. What Americans don't understand about Afghans is that they have been beaten out of their will to fight long, long, long before we ever laid our boots on their soil. The Taliban took over in short order and the only people willing to fight them were the Northern Alliance.

We are criticizing the government and the soldiers who know what is going on for the actual foreign policy, not some hypothetical other situation.

To me, Iraq was a huge waste of time, money, and resources. In no way was it a just war. I understand that. HOWEVER, War with Iraq was authorized by congress, it was order by the president, and off we went. We, as a military, cannot refuse those orders.

only fight ethical wars

I know what you mean here..But, peoples' idea of "ethical war" amounts to picking up a turd from the clean end. There are many different unit performing different jobs in the military. But by and large it is our job to kill people and F S U. We're not their to do talking. We show up when talking is done.

universal human rights outlined briefly in the Constitution?

Ok. You have seen the stories from Abu Ghraib. You have seen the story of that Sgt who killed 17 civilians in Afghanistan. But you have not read what we strive to do every day out there. I seen it personally. The vast majority of us are trying to do good things with the crap situation we're given. the vast majority of us do our best to follow ROE, international law, and the rules of the host nation governing body.

Please don't diminish my experience for political attitudes toward policy in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I for one am thankful that there are troops readily available to fight for your right to express that opinion if the need ever arises.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Again, this is a propaganda sound bite that you appear to have bought hook, line, and sinker. This is a manufactured sound bite.

THe wars for the past 60 years or so have had nothing to do with legitimate American self-defense and everything to do with the US asserting, attaining, and retaining geo-political hegemony.

In fact, many of the efforts and wars specifically were evil because they oppressed the human rights of people's worldwide. Did you know that? That the "freedom-fighting military" was overthrowing democratically elected governments and installing compliant dictators? Dictators that instituted death squads, disappeared people, and so on?

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

For the love of all that is holy... For the third time, could you please read my post again and get back to me. I understand the urge to read half of it and post. I do. I get it. Please take a moment, breath in... Reread and then explain why you felt the need to post to me what you did.

My 1 sentence (for the third time) has absolutely nothing to do with anything that you have posted. Not one thing.

I'll give you a hint since so many seem to be having a slight issue... The key is in the last five words. I don't think most of you are bothering to read that far. It would have saved you some time I think.

But it does show that those who are saying others are buying the propaganda have bought the propaganda from across the street to have such knee jerk reactions that they can't even finish the sentence without posting....



We all at least sip the kool aid. Let's not pretend otherwise and fool ourselves in an attempt to fool others.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Because there are 364 days (363 if you take out memorial day as well) that you have to utilize to complain about the MIC. Can't you set aside one (or two) days to honor our troops? The military DOES do good things around the globe too. Disaster relief, pirate patrols, making sure no one attacks our country, and supplying jobs for people to name a few.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Because there are 364 days (363 if you take out memorial day as well) that you have to utilize to complain about the MIC. Can't you set aside one (or two) days to honor our troops? The military DOES do good things around the globe too. Disaster relief, pirate patrols, making sure no one attacks our country, and supplying jobs for people to name a few.

A reasonable point, and note that I didn't start this post.

However, again, if we are talking about veterans and their involvement in foreign policy what more appropriate of a day to discuss such topics than Veteran's Day.

Some of us hold that truly "supporting the troops" means questioning, protesting, and stopping the unethical wars. The very wars that are sending naive, ignorant, or poor soldiers to fight for lies and possibly be scarred for life, dead, or maimed. What could be more appropriate of a discussion on Veteran's Day than discussing how to stop having the public and our soldiers manipulated and used by the powers that be?

Ignoring these topics I think is just supporting the very same evil foreign policy that is putting our soldiers through the meat grinder.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Listen to yourself.

A just war?

Have you ever seen the eye of the devil? Have you ever stared at someone that wanted to kill you with every fiber of their being?

I have. Despite not being in the armed forces, I know what the sound of an incoming round sounds like and what kind of firearm is firing it. There is a war being fought in the streets between kids, teenagers, men and women. It's a war to make enough money to survive. It's a war to make something out of yourself where you couldn't before.

I'll tell you how it works in those places, the same places that have had more murders in the last ten years than military deaths in the last 15.
You exit high school and have good grades. You try to get a job but after months of looking, you only get jobs that pay $9-12$ an hour and about 2,000 a month after taxes of course.

Buddy from down the block who dropped out of school at age 14 comes around in a brand new BMW and throws you a wad of 20s. Keep it he tells you, he has ten more in the trunk. That wad is more than two months salary. You get curious and ask him how he got that money. He shows you and next thing you know, you're hooked. That is why it's called the "trap" or the "game". They see smiling successful people in suits and wearing rolexes and find out that you have to be born in a certain place at a certain time to get that. And they try to emulate that success but the only way they can do that is through illegal means. And with illegal means, there's no one to help you so others try to take what you have earned and you defend yourself leading to retaliation and gangs being formed to prevent retaliation.

For you to say that you want a war speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge into what a war would mean. It would mean death and violence, depravity, people turning into savages, insanity branded as every day occurrences, and pain on an emotional and psychical level. It is rightfully said that there are no true survivors from war, because even the living are dead on the inside.

I for one respect those that serve and prevent wars from happening, because no sane person who has seen what war is would ever wish it on someone else.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Veteran's day isn't ABOUT the current wars that the military is fighting or even the military. It's about the veterans. The people who are serving or served in the armed forces. Veteran means that they are no longer in serving. By co-opting the holiday to talk about the MIC and the horrors its brought, you are hijacking and destroying the reason the holiday was founded. It is SUPPOSED to be a day of remembrance for fallen heroes, for families who've lost loved ones, for the sacrifice that veterans make to body and mind while serving in the military.

Supporting the troops isn't about agreeing with whatever hellhole the MIC has thrown our young adults into. It's about recognizing and honoring the sacrifice that comes with being a soldier. It is hard to see, but there is a difference.

originally posted by: thisguy27
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Listen to yourself.

A just war?

Have you ever seen the eye of the devil? Have you ever stared at someone that wanted to kill you with every fiber of their being?

I have. Despite not being in the armed forces, I know what the sound of an incoming round sounds like and what kind of firearm is firing it. There is a war being fought in the streets between kids, teenagers, men and women. It's a war to make enough money to survive. It's a war to make something out of yourself where you couldn't before.

I'll tell you how it works in those places, the same places that have had more murders in the last ten years than military deaths in the last 15.
You exit high school and have good grades. You try to get a job but after months of looking, you only get jobs that pay $9-12$ an hour and about 2,000 a month after taxes of course.

Buddy from down the block who dropped out of school at age 14 comes around in a brand new BMW and throws you a wad of 20s. Keep it he tells you, he has ten more in the trunk. That wad is more than two months salary. You get curious and ask him how he got that money. He shows you and next thing you know, you're hooked. That is why it's called the "trap" or the "game". They see smiling successful people in suits and wearing rolexes and find out that you have to be born in a certain place at a certain time to get that. And they try to emulate that success but the only way they can do that is through illegal means. And with illegal means, there's no one to help you so others try to take what you have earned and you defend yourself leading to retaliation and gangs being formed to prevent retaliation.

For you to say that you want a war speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge into what a war would mean. It would mean death and violence, depravity, people turning into savages, insanity branded as every day occurrences, and pain on an emotional and psychical level. It is rightfully said that there are no true survivors from war, because even the living are dead on the inside.

I for one respect those that serve and prevent wars from happening, because no sane person who has seen what war is would ever wish it on someone else.

Um..... Um.... Did you even read my post or actually understand what a "just war" entails?

I am a radical pacifist excepting the historically accepted criteria for a "just war."

This means in true self-defense. As in an invasion is occurring. Virtually all legal bodies, national and international, recognize this as a right of both individuals and nations. IN FACT, it is the only legal use of force at both levels.

If you had actually read the post I was responding to, I was being completely reasonable, and telling the other person that the wars they have participated in have NOT been for any kind of self-defense or security.

The rest is not worth replying to. I've worked in poverty with gangbangers for over a decade. You assumed a lot in your post.