MH17 Update: Missile That Took Down Airline ‘Undeniably’ Provided By Russian – (Unofficial)

a reply to: Zaphod58

So it is the Su-25TM who has operational ceiling of 7km, but an service ceiling of 10km.

However with some digging it seems the Su-25T its outside is almost identical to the Su-25TM :

The Su-25TM was externally almost identical to the Su-25T, but was compatible with a range of targeting pods, including the "Khinzal (Dagger)" millimeter-wave imaging radar pod; the "Khod (Motion)" imaging infrared pod; and the Phazotron "Kopyo-25 (Spear-25)" multi-mode radar pod.

Although an initial production batch of ten Su-25Ts was ordered from the Tbilisi plant and an export "Su-25TK" was promoted, the fall of the Soviet Union intervened and the type never entered full production, though two Su-25Ts did perform combat service in the Chechnya conflict, backing up older Su-25s when a precision strike capability was required. Of the four Su-25s obtained by Ethiopia, two of these were actually Su-25Ts and the other two were Su-25UBs or Su-25UBKs.

Su-25T ("Su-34"): All-weather variant, up to 22 built.

So they have been exported.

Sukhoi was happy enough with the Su-25UB to even consider a variant of the type as a dedicated advanced flight trainer for the VVS as well as "DOSAAF", a paramilitary organization that provided flight training for Soviet youngsters in preparation for formal military flight service.

The T8UB-1 was converted to this configuration by eliminating armor and combat gear, with the modified aircraft performing its first flight on 6 August 1985. The aircraft looked much like the Su-25UB externally, though it was not generally fitted with stores pylons. One distinctive difference was that the dogtooth in the leading edge of the wing was smoothed over, giving the wing a slightly odd "kinked" appearance. This aircraft was eventually known as the "Su-25UT" and then the "Su-28", but it was the only one of its kind built; nobody wanted it. Since it weighed about 2 tonnes (4,400 pounds) less than a combat-equipped Su-25 but retained the same engines, it almost certainly had plenty of pep, but it was simply too large and uneconomical to operate in the advanced flight training role.

Sukhoi did, however, build a small number of similar tandem-seat trainers for the Soviet Navy under the designation "Su-25UTG". These aircraft were designed for practicing carrier landings, and had strengthened fuselages plus a "stinger"-type arresting hook. Initial flight of the prototype was in September 1988, with its first landing on the Soviet carrier TBILISI (later the ADMIRAL KUZNETSOV) in November 1989. Ten production aircraft were built, with five each going to the Russian Republic and the Ukraine after the fall of the USSR.

Source

So Ukraine is in the possession of a couple of much lighter Su-25 with R-195 engines.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So it is the Su-25TM who has operational ceiling of 7km, but an service ceiling of 10km.

And Ukraine doesn't have any in their inventory, so you just lost out on what you think you had.

And so you know the SU25TM is a plane that never made it to production...

From your own source...

The Russian Navy considered a version of the Su-25TM modified for carrier operation and designated the "Su-25TP". However, neither the Su-25TM nor the Su-25TP entered production.

www.airvectors.net...

Good effort it just fell a few thousand miles short.

Here is a list of what Ukraine has in their arsenal for planes...

Su-25
Su-25UB
Su-25K
Su-25UTG
Su-25M1
Su-25UBM1

46 delivered. Four Su-25M1 and one Su-25UBM1 were upgraded in 2010-2011

en.wikipedia.org...

Now show where any of these were upgraded to fly to 33000 ft and you might have something.

And again the Ukraine military does not have an SU25 or variant that will fly that high.

Good try though.

If this guys has flown a Su-25 trainer it would also explain why he says it was it will go over Mach 1 :

9:30 min he says he has flown it :


0:53 min, "and what`s interesting about the Su-25 is, once you punch everything off of it, it will go over Mach 1."

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

According to what I have linked they have much lighter trainers, read it again.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If this guys has flown a Su-25 trainer it would also explain why he says it was it will go over Mach 1 :

And yet he doesn't say it will reach 33000 ft does he?

You think just because a plane can fly at Mach 1 that means it can fly higher than it's service ceiling...don't know much about planes do you?

You just keep trying yet you still fall short. Well maybe one day you will find something that backs your claims, but today just isn't that day it seems.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

According to what I have linked they have much lighter trainers, read it again.

And those trainers aren't used for combat and the air frame is the same, the wings are the same which produces the lift for the plane to fly. You don't just make a plane lighter and think it flies higher without redesigning the plane and wings so that it creates enough lift to fly that high.

You really don't understand the basics of flying do you?

And you also made the assertion that Ukraine has an SU25TM which they don't because they were never in production so maybe you should go back and read your linked source better.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Standard Su-25 can`t fly over Mach 1, but when trust/weight ratio is down it`s probably possible.

The trainers I pointed out to have 4,400 pounds less weight, with only minor modification, so it`s actual possible.

And than there is also the story of 20 ( 2 have gone to Ethiopia), Su-25T planes which are basically the same as the Su-25TM and it`s no clear as to where they are. The Su-25T/Su-25TM were both build in Georgia Tbilisi plant, and it`s also not clear where they have ended up in the choas after the fall of the Soviet Union and if a few more have been build. There are rumors Ukraine has also gotten former Soviet military hardware from other former Soviet countries in early `14.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The Su-25 has done 14km + in test flight, which has been discussed earlier and also to be seen in the RT vid.

You really don't understand the basics of flying do you?

You`re right, I`m not a bird or superman.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
You`re right, I`m not a bird or superman.

Its ok.. It wasn't an airplane that brought down MH17 anyways.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

It is identical physically. But they lightened portions of the fuselage, put modernized engines in, and made other changes. As far as I know, other than those that went to Ethiopia, Russia is the only one that has them.

a reply to: GodEmperor

How is it wrong when the lawful government of Ukraine followed the Constitution? The parliament was elected in Dec 2012 and Russia accepted the results.

As for splitting Ukraine up your facts are wrong there as well.
NATO did not invade Ukraine the first time they declined to join. Russia was the one who pushed Ukraine away at that time. Ukraine and the situation revolved around joining the EU, something Russia bitched about. Putin uses the NATO excuse for home consumption. Just like Iran does when internal pressure hits they find another country to blame the issues on.

Ukrainian citizens don't want to be part of Russia. The Russians in Ukraine need to move to Russia if they wish to be a part of them.

Finally you guys really need to stop changing your argument when one argument fails.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

No, four aircraft have gone to Ethiopia, and two of those four are Su-25Ts.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The Su-25 has done 14km + in test flight, which has been discussed earlier and also to be seen in the RT vid.

The problem with that is it didn't do it with any type of armament and it wasn't for but a brief time. You may want to do a bit of research as to what entails a test flight, and fully armed isn't it.

You`re right, I`m not a bird or superman.

And neither am I what's your point?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The trainers I pointed out to have 4,400 pounds less weight, with only minor modification, so it`s actual possible.

You do understand the weight they took off would most likely be the armaments as they have no need for them when training someone how to fly.

Again you can lighten a plane to fly fast, yet it doesn't mean it will change it's service ceiling.

And than there is also the story of 20 ( 2 have gone to Ethiopia), Su-25T planes which are basically the same as the Su-25TM and it`s no clear as to where they are.

And yet none of them are in the Ukrainian Air Force, so that makes your theory dead.

The Su-25T/Su-25TM were both build in Georgia Tbilisi plant, and it`s also not clear where they have ended up in the choas after the fall of the Soviet Union and if a few more have been build. There are rumors Ukraine has also gotten former Soviet military hardware from other former Soviet countries in early `14.

It doesn't matter where they were built Ukraine doesn't have that model in their inventory, but keep trying to think they do.

Let me guess that story was sourced to Russian media?

Why are we still entertaining the SU 25 theory? Its been shown its not a possibility.

a reply to: Xcathdra

My argument is that neither side is right.

Ukraine is a victim of a war between the east and west. As for Iran, I have already pointed out the US staged a coup, toppling their democratic government and supported a brutal dictator. You have picked a side, that's fine, but know that billions will die in this new world war. All this boils down to is strategic positioning between both sides. In regards to the Ukraine, it would be similar to the Cuban missile crisis, they don't want the opposition next door.

All your posts, it is clear that anyone who doesn't agree with you is apparently on the other side. That simplistic worldview is how the long game is lost. If Russia is so evil, and you want to make them hurt, then flood the oil market to the point gas prices are $1 a gallon. If not, stop supporting actions that only benefit a small group of corporations and people, at the detriment of American citizens.

a reply to: GodEmperor

Ukraine has nothing to do with east and west. Odd you want to involve them Ukraine Is A Victim Of Putins greed and ego. The west didn't care two bits about Ukraine and frankly still dont. If they cared there would be 50000 troops already there. The only issue is get Putin to realize attacking neighbors is counter productive. He believes that the land grab is going to help instead he's destroying Russia.

See your buying into the smoke screen Putin propaganda puts out. Rule one with a dictator they need someone to blame. Look through his past he's KAB and knows to control lives they need a bogie man.

This just in: Russia circulates fake satellite images:

www.bellingcat.com...

originally posted by: DJW001
This just in: Russia circulates fake satellite images:

www.bellingcat.com...

Imagine that they lied rule is when you can't change the facts try to muddy the water.

a reply to: Xcathdra

This is your source?

a crowd-sourced investigation claimed.