Fighting the Insane

Originally posted by SiRiNO

Originally posted by Croat56
That does look pretty crazy. How does that guy supposed to eat anyway?

He doesnt, i'm guessing he is on a hunger strike too.

I'm not sure why this kind of anti arab biggotry isnt stopped on this forum by the mods, every second topic is full of ignorence and is usually (not always mind you) started by an overly patriotic american. Its a conspiracy I tell you! A conspiracy within a conspiracy forum...*dramatic music*.

Why is it when someone offers an observation they are labled "bigot". People and races are in fcat different. Currently those in the middle east seem to be able to strap on bomb and murder innocents. I have never heard of an american or even europian suicide bomber.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
This is an "award" winning picture of an Iranian protesting Dutch authorities. His eyes and lips are sown shut? Is this insanity genertic? Are all those in or from the middle east brain damaged?

Well, Doc - the response you get may have something to do with how you phrase your questions.

I'll assume these questions aren't loaded and take a shot.

1. No, but his eyes and lips are SEWN shut.
2. No. Nor is the "insanity" GENETIC.
3. No.


edited for spelling..

[edit on 11-12-2004 by quango]

Originally posted by quango

Originally posted by DrHoracid
This is an "award" winning picture of an Iranian protesting Dutch authorities. His eyes and lips are sown shut? Is this insanity genertic? Are all those in or from the middle east brain damaged?

Well, Doc - the response you get may have something to do with how you phrase your questions.

I'll assume these questions aren't loaded and take a shot.

1. No, but his eyes and lips are SEWN shut.
2. No. Nor is the "insanity" GENETIC.
3. No.


edited for spelling..

[edit on 11-12-2004 by quango]

Thank you, finally some one answers the simple questions without rhetoric. Thanks again. Although insanity is genetic it is not genetic to any specific "race" or location. Other than the news media. They are all nuts. That a technical term.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Although insanity is genetic it is not genetic to any specific "race" or location. Other than the news media. They are all nuts. That a technical term.

I would suggest in this case that it is passed on through religious beliefs as opposed to genes.

I wouldn't use the term "insanity" either. It might seem crazy, but it comes from faith.

I would assume one must believe pretty intensely to blow oneself up, set oneself on fire or sew ones' eyes and lips shut.

dr horacid have you ever heard of american or european canibals?

what about sexual torturers? (torture in war - understandable / sexual torture - over the top)

what about slave owners that brutalized pregnant women and stomped there unborn babies in front of the rebellious slaves in order to elicit fear?

etc

dont go there...
lest i continue of the history of the savagery and barbarism of the euro / westrn civ.....

Originally posted by theBLESSINGofVISION
dr horacid have you ever heard of american or european canibals?

what about sexual torturers? (torture in war - understandable / sexual torture - over the top)

what about slave owners that brutalized pregnant women and stomped there unborn babies in front of the rebellious slaves in order to elicit fear?

etc

dont go there...
lest i continue of the history of the savagery and barbarism of the euro / westrn civ.....

The slave thing is just complete BS. Sorry data does not exist for anything except very limited incidents. BTW the only incident I know of happened in Africa before being loaded on slave ships by other AFRICANS.

American and Euro cannibals? Whats that all about. Slavery is as old as man. It started and still exists in AFRICA. Western civilization stopped it 150 years ago in america and euro. You gotta do better than this.

Wow!! You really earned the name DrHORacid - that picture is pretty vile but it symbolizes a lot ! for one thing I see is DESPERATION and another is EXHIBITIONISM . Probably the guy wanted to do something so outrageous that would get everybody�s attention at his plight and to his cause.
The answers to the questions are according to me:
1) yes he really did
2) insanity is not genetic- SO NO
3) the ARAB world you refer to is EXTREEM but not insane- SO NO AGAIN
.


[edit on 11-12-2004 by IAF101]

Originally posted by Simulacra
- I'm against protesting, but I don't know how to show it. -

What a way to start my day

Originally posted by instar

Originally posted by elaine
As a photo, it's mesmerizeing yet repulsive at the same time.
Makes me wonder about what the man in the picture is "saying"
with his sewn shut lips.

I think hes trying to say/show "my issue is unseen and unheard" "i have no voice against injustice/I am unheard"

Well thank you captain obvious!!!!! I see your radar is working just fine

You gotta do better than this.

how about a british national?
www.timesonline.co.uk..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> www.timesonline.co.uk...

and european converts to islam..........

www.google.com.au...:C3ySa1ftwekJ:www.nixoncenter.org/publications/FairGame.pdf++suicide+bombers+of+european+extraction&hl=en& start=4

russian suicide bombers.........

www.cdi.org...

Not to mention japanese suicide bombers of ww2 , using there planes as bombs.

And Balinese suicide bombers..........

www.time.com...

french suicide bomber.......

63.147.65.31...

American suicide bomber (using plane)........

63.147.65.31...

Originally posted by IAF101
3) the ARAB world you refer to is EXTREEM but not insane- SO NO AGAIN
[edit on 11-12-2004 by IAF101]

Function: adjective
Text: 1 being afflicted by or manifesting unsoundness of mind or an inability to control one's rational processes

Websters

I would say that suicide bombers and even this protester demonstrate an inability to control ones rational thought process, and CLEARLY examplify unsoundness of mind.


Pronunciation: in-'sa-n&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
3 a : extreme folly or unreasonableness b : something utterly foolish or unreasonable

Websters

I would say it is extremely unreasonable and foolish to think that by sewing ones mouth shut, he or she will change the political actions of an entire nation. I also find it to be extremely unreasonable and utterly foolish to believe that crashing aircraft into two of the worlds most important buildings would get the US to leave the middle east and then convert to Islam.

Insane???? I think so.

Also, if my memory serves me right, insane also means to do something over and over again, expecting a different result. Could this not be aplied to many suicide bombers?

My understanding of this is that they sew their lips shut to stop anyone trying to force feed them. And this mans actions do not signify that the Arab world as a whole is insane, what it says to me is that this man is so desperate in his protest that he has gone as far as he can and therefore wishes to slowly die for what he believes. I don�t see an insane man i see a desperate world.

[edit on 11-12-2004 by kode]

How can you say that the guy who sews his lips together was not doing so under his control and his own free will ? He could have done it concisely! By generalizing an entire region to the act of one individual is inappropriate .
How do you explain all those news reporters who went to IRAQ during the war to cover their story amidst all the fighting - Insane, as no sane person would put themselves in harms way if they had a choice. All Arabs aren't insane- isn't that obvious to all ? Most people are just EXTREEM and some are obviously insane as in most parts of the world!
I think the guy is desperate and feels that he doesn't have a voice to represent himself thats why the EXTREEM step of self mutilation- Hey! if you sterotype arabs then typically he should have blow himself to bits by a suicide attack killing hundreds along with him but he didn't do that did he?
So Arabs can be EXTREEM - YES | INSANE - NO !!


[edit on 11-12-2004 by IAF101]

Here is a generalization that is bound to offend the followers of that "peaceful religion".
I noticed an aful amount of homosexual activities in Iraq. Including little boys auditioning to groups of men by sucking on their thumbs. I was told they practice homosexual acts because they want to keep their women virgins for marrage.
The Muslims should read George Orwell because they need to stop what every cookie cutter they are using to produce their like mindedness. Being around them is like being in a bad Patty Duke film - "they look a like, they dress alike sometimes they talk alike...you can loose your mind..."
Are they capable of independent thought?
What was their last contribution to civilization? I think it may have been the magnifying glass. These are some ot the richest nations in the world. From what I have read Mohamad was an epileptic, child molester (married a 10 year old - hope she was a virgin) that raided carvans in the name of Allah (orignially a minor diety of Baal). This is the best role model they can find? Damn, I only thought the neo-Nazi's were mindless asses.
The original cursades, bye the way, was for the Jewish decendents that became a group of knights. They tricked the Pope into the conflict to get back to Jerusalem and get the treasures out from under the temple (Templars) and started banking with the funds gathered and Free Masonry. Masonry and Judism has given cilization huge benifiets not the least was the US constitution.
Hey, look at the back of a one dollar US bill. Now look over the eagles head see that star. Remember George Washington, he had it placed there "lest we forget who made this nation possible". If the Muslims don't want to be included in "persecution" lets see a little more seperation and condemnation for the acts of the terrorist by them. Like a little self policing so we (the rest of civilization) don't have to.
Every nation on the planet with Muslims is having terrorist activity from their Muslim communities and the Muslims seem to think continueing the lie of being a "peaceful religion" is going to continue allowing them to provide the terrorist with a safe haven. Now, is the problem everyone of those nations or the really bazar way the Muslims see the world.
We non-muslim Americans don't have a choice, to strike Israel is to strike the US. Muslims want all their original Empire back (so they can take the rest of the planet by open force) and to do that they will lie, cheat, steal and kill (mostly soft targets like children and school busses). Which empire is more open to freedom? The US or any one of the Muslim "controlled" countries? We are not talking Woodstock here, we don't have the choice to drop out and turn on. The war was brougt to the US. Let's get on with it and get it over. You can not trust a wasp not to sting you. You can burn down the nest.

Good post 77 !!
Do you have any proof to back up your claims of homosexuality in Iraqi children?
Lets see some proof! I agree with lot of what you say except the homosexual part.
The muslim world should start policing their region more so as to prevent any such acts of terrorism happen again here . They are truely guilty of inaction and complacency or is it their actuall plan of dominance = The muslim world controls most of the worlds oil reserves, they can hold the whole world at ransom if they refuse to sell their oil to any country!!

I did not take photos. But I have inspected our nuclear warhead program and assist special agents authorized to arrest FBI. So take my word or ask others over there now to be more attentive and they will see it also they just need to know what to look for. I hope photos will be taken. The Arabs are known by some in Law Enforcement or as my self in Crime fighting for their fondness for children. Rather horrible really.

But I have read some saying what the photo means to them let me say what it means to me:
It shows a person by his free choice deciding to blind and mute himself by his own faith. A faith in a false religion that has produced legions of deaf and blind followers performing acts of terror against what God has created. They shall all surely be damned if they do not wake up, open their eyes and confess love for others and accept a benevolent God. A God of birth not death.

Here is a generalization that is bound to offend the followers of that "peaceful religion".
I noticed an aful amount of homosexual activities in Iraq. Including little boys auditioning to groups of men by sucking on their thumbs. I was told they practice homosexual acts because they want to keep their women virgins for marrage.

I sucked my thumb till 10 years ago; i was 12 at the time. That is an irrelevent point, and has so factual basis whatsoever. Iraq is still a culture shaped by Islamic and Arabic influences. Homosexuality is very well denounced. And this insinuations that boys are exploited to keep the elder women virgins is just plain ignorant and unmerited; i want to see some proof of this.

The Muslims should read George Orwell because they need to stop what every cookie cutter they are using to produce their like mindedness. Being around them is like being in a bad Patty Duke film - "they look a like, they dress alike sometimes they talk alike...you can loose your mind..."
Are they capable of independent thought?

Of course they dress the same. Go to India, travel through the villages, you'll see millions of Indians dressing alike, walking alike, and acting in the very same manner superficialy. Now, this is due to a very limited market of retail clothes: Iraqi's are not really worried about Prada, Levis, Gucci, Armani, you know; It's much cheaper to make your own clothes.

They are capable of independent thought, and dressing alike and talking alike (maybe you can't understand simple Arabic, if you did, you would understand that the language and the tone it's spoken in, is universaly prevelent in that part of the world ) does not denote them to have private subjective lives which differ from one another.

What was their last contribution to civilization? I think it may have been the magnifying glass. These are some ot the richest nations in the world. From what I have read Mohamad was an epileptic, child molester (married a 10 year old - hope she was a virgin) that raided carvans in the name of Allah (orignially a minor diety of Baal). This is the best role model they can find? Damn, I only thought the neo-Nazi's were mindless asses.

I'am sorry, but I don't see little children being married off in Iraq, Caravans being raided, and children molested, did you? I've never heard this outcried on an international scale, have you? What was thier last contribution? Silly, it's having the largest Oil reserves in the world; which, in turn, fuel those SUV'S you drive in the west. Since when do you judge an entire peoples by thier contribution to the world? Even more, that's such an ambigious question; contribution in what realm of life? Economic (oil), literature (I could name some great Arabic Poets), Culture (Gotta love the Sheesha), etc etc etc?

Every nation on the planet with Muslims is having terrorist activity from their Muslim communities and the Muslims seem to think continueing the lie of being a "peaceful religion" is going to continue allowing them to provide the terrorist with a safe haven. Now, is the problem everyone of those nations or the really bazar way the Muslims see the world.

And, your point is? Every where on this planet where there are Christians, we see a minority of Christian extremists.

What's your point ?

Your entire post was a load of crap.

Proof?

I did not take photos. But I have inspected our nuclear warhead program and assist special agents authorized to arrest FBI. So take my word or ask others over there now to be more attentive and they will see it also they just need to know what to look for. I hope photos will be taken. The Arabs are known by some in Law Enforcement or as my self in Crime fighting for their fondness for children. Rather horrible really

Cut the crap.

Just by your mediocre and banefull analysis of the Iraqi infrastructure and socioculture/political climate, once can realize that you're just sitting at home spewing subjective dogma from an islamaphobic orthodoxy. Now, once again, I am going to suggest you back up your spurious claims, or stop lying.

You're a very poor liar.

Deep

[edit on 11-12-2004 by ZeroDeep]

But I have read some saying what the photo means to them let me say what it means to me:
It shows a person by his free choice deciding to blind and mute himself by his own faith. A faith in a false religion that has produced legions of deaf and blind followers performing acts of terror against what God has created. They shall all surely be damned if they do not wake up, open their eyes and confess love for others and accept a benevolent God. A God of birth not death.

You have shown yourself to be just as much a zealot as those you hate so much.
I pity you more than the unfortunate man in the photo.
You would have been right at home among the spanish inquisition!
You were born too late! :d:





[edit on 11-12-2004 by instar]

I'm not sure where this thread is going, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to go there.

A member posts a picture of an Iranian guy who sewed his mouth shut, rhetorically asks if we can infer that this is somehow genetic and if we can conclude that everyone in or from the Middle East is "brain damaged".

I pointed out the bigoted nature of these rhetorical questions, then see complaints about rhetoric from the original source of it on the thread. How does that make any sense?

I suppose a sophist could argue that a hasty generalization is not necessarily bigotry, but when it applies to ethnicity or culture, I say it is bigotry. Prove me wrong.

I don't mean to seem like I'm jumping down DrHoracid's throat unfairly, and I don't think I am. If you post opinions in a public forum, it is reasonable to expect that people will comment on them, and that not everyone will agree.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, OKAY?

I am not labeling DrHoracid or anyone else on this thread anything -- except to label them my fellow ATS members, which is a badge of honor. I am commenting on their posts. If I have erred and pinned a label on someone, I apologize, and it is to my discredit, not theirs.

I do stupid things all the time. Jumping into threads like these could be considered among them. But that does not mean I'm stupid (I define "stupid" as "deliberately ignorant"). Likewise, I have made many bigoted statements in my short life, but that doesn't mean I am a bigot. At least, I try not to be.

I do not believe DrHoracid is a bigot. Please, prove me right.

Hey, if you ask me, this Mehdy Kavousi guy obviously has some serious mental health issues. My point is that just because this one guy sews various orifices shut does not mean that everyone in the Middle East is brain damaged. It's just not true.

DrHoracid, I know all too well that there are too many bigoted comments already on ATS. Let's all of us work to change that. I don't know if we can succeed, but I must believe it is possible. I am certain that it will never happen unless we as members decide to oppose it.

I know the tone of this and other posts of mine can come off as unnecessarily strident, and I'm sorry. Like many of my fellow ATSers, I am passionate about this website.

That's because it is truly unique in all the world, and it is precious beyond measure. It is a gift from the people that work so hard to make it possible for us -- and the world -- to have access to information that may not be available anywhere else. It seems only right to acknowledge their efforts and treat this site with respect.

As annoying as it can be at times, I still think it is worth fighting to make AboveTopSecret.com an example of how Internet technology can be used to fight the lies, deceit and propaganda that enslave mankind.

We argue, we fight, we bicker, but I truly believe that all of us are ultimately on the same side. We want to cut through the lies and the crap and defend the truth from the endless attacks made upon it.

We can only do that if we all realize that none of us has a monopoly on the truth, but must always remain watchful for it and receptive to it when it comes.

I challenge everyone reading this to seek the truth, and Deny Ignorance.

I'm sorry if I come off as a drama queen putting it this way, but this is how I truly feel. I pray that everyone reading this shares my passion.


[edit on 12/11/2004 by Majic]

This thread is serving its original purpose. To provoke a discussion of misconceptions. Many americans see things similar to what the original picture shows and see insanity. Zealousness to any extreme is out of place in the US now. Everyone seems to want to "just get along" and real passion for anything is seen as somewhat "taboo". Think and speak as the "mainstream" or you are a nut. Everything must be PC so no one gets offended. Sometimes you just have to "offend" someone to get a true reaction. I have many friends worldwide of many races. Many in the US currently think anyone from aisa minor is a terrorist or terrorist "want to be". I know that is very untrue. ATS is a place for thought and deep discussion of passionate issues. I applaud everyones views and passion. I am not sure of "77"'s data in homosexuality in the Islamic/Arabic world. I would seek proof before accepting anyones "word". That is the ATS way.

[edit on 11-12-2004 by DrHoracid]