Der Speigel says Russia was not at fault for MH17

a reply to: HappyThoughts

Hell, all I have to do is show the Service Ceiling to show that it can't go that high to begin with.

www.sukhoi.org...

It does not matter what "DER SPIEGEL" says its a phony garbage mass media disinformation news outlet!

a reply to: Zaphod58

But you entered a discussion that was based on the hypothetical notion that it could.

a reply to: HappyThoughts

And in the real world, it can't, so hypotheticals don't matter.

a reply to: HappyThoughts

Sure, Zaphod whatever you say. A two second burst of the cannon will make it fall out of the sky. Hey I know, I bet the weight loss from the spent rounds will compensate for the 2sec "kickback", just to add some more drivel.

Can you prove any of what your calling drivel wrong, because you keep calling it drivel, yet you can't refute it...why is that?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Hell, all I have to do is show the Service Ceiling to show that it can't go that high to begin with.

According to someone else all the info on the net about the SU25 has been changed to lower it's ceiling...and yes I am being serious.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: HappyThoughts

And in the real world, it can't, so hypotheticals don't matter.

Then stay out of it!

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Can you prove any of what your calling drivel wrong, because you keep calling it drivel, yet you can't refute it...why is that?

Because it's the kind that can't be proven nor refuted by us. I base my classification on common sense and my BS detecting skills.

a reply to: HappyThoughts

But you entered a discussion that was based on the hypothetical notion that it could.

It wasn't hypothetical in any way, because the assertion from the beginning was that an SU25 shot down the airliner flying at 33000 ft, so what is it exactly that was hypothetical?

And need I remind you of this...

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

rt.com...

Do you see what is in bold above, because that right there proves the Russian are saying it's an SU25 knowing damn well it can't fly that high, so they lie about this what else are they lying about?

a reply to: HappyThoughts

Because it's the kind that can't be proven nor refuted by us.

Oh yes they can try this...

www.google.com...

It works wonders.

I base my classification on common sense and my BS detecting skills.

Don't know much about your common sense, but as for the BS detecting skills need some work if your falling for the diaper load of crap that an SU25 used 30mm cannons to bring down that airliner.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

It wasn't hypothetical in any way, because the assertion from the beginning was that an SU25 shot down the airliner flying at 33000 ft, so what is it exactly that was hypothetical?

Short memory span, this,

and it can't shoot it's cannon at that height without stalling if it even got to that altitude.

Do you see what is in bold above, because that right there proves the Russian are saying it's an SU25 knowing damn well it can't fly that high, so they lie about this what else are they lying about?

There are lots of others (even Ukranian)sources saying it can do 10,000, from decades back even. Why didn't Russia "edit" Sukhoi's specs too?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I didn't see you prove the disputed statement

Don't know much about your common sense, but as for the BS detecting skills need some work if your falling for the diaper load of crap that an SU25 used 30mm cannons to bring down that airliner.

.

Well something fired a cannon at it. Are you suggesting it was another plane?

I found something for the non believers of Sukhoi and the wiki propaganda believers.

something to readon the shootdown.

The point is wiki was edited and sukhoi was truthful. WHy didnt rusia change theirs you ask? prolly because the owner is powerful.

a reply to: HappyThoughts

There are lots of others (even Ukranian)sources saying it can do 10,000, from decades back even. Why didn't Russia "edit" Sukhoi's specs too?

Sure but you need to know they aren't the version Ukraine has.

Here is a list of what Ukraine has...

Currently, the Ukrainian Air Force operates approximately 60 Su-25, Su-25UBs, and Su-25UTGs, which are operated by the 299th Independent Assault Regiment (299 OShAP) based at Kulbakino, Mykolaiv Oblast, and at Saki in the Crimea, and the 456th Assault Regiment (456 ShAP) at Chortkiv. Up to 30 Su-25s are reportedly stored at the 4070th Reserve Base. Evidently, three Su-25s sold to Macedonia came from this reserve pool.[32] Also, Ukrainian Air Force modernized two types of the Su-25, one of them is Su-25M1 and Su-25UBM1.[81]

en.wikipedia.org...

Now which of these do you think fly to that height?

Also you may want to read this...

www.militaryfactory.com...

It discusses the SU25 and it variants...enjoy.

I think I can bring this down to Earth. John M. Browning made an improved 37mm auto cannon about 1935. He felt that this was the largest ordinance a citizen should ever possess. John F. Kennedy had one mounted forwards on his P.T. 109 to do a better job of breaking up Japanese naval troop barges, in Iron Bottom Sound. But this round dates back to the Spanish American War. The smaller and more modern 30mm will be close to this antique. After WWI, a couple of kids on horseback in Oklahoma, found a 37mm dud on the ground and one of them put it in his back pocket, and then re-mounted his horse. The dud went off when the kid's butt contacted the saddle's cantle. This cut him in half, made total scraps out of his saddle, and darn near cut the horse in half as well. Only the gut tendons were keeping the horse's carcass together. A friend heard of this from bystanders who had flocked to that area, to witness the carnage, only to see rows of National Guardsmen, raking their way through the sage brush, looking for any more unexploded ordinance. This is precisely what one of these small cannon shells can and will do. I cannot say if this Suhkhoi would also use caseless ammo, but I saw these rigs demonstrated at the 1971 Paris Air Show. Demo'd, but not fired, of course. Our 20mm is a smokeless version of the old Hotchkiss 1 lb. cannon round. The German Lahti 20mm anti tank round is a whole lot more powerful. A gun shop owner, and old Army buddy of my dad, had both of these, in N.J. of all places, and it cost him $2.50 per surplus round, to shoot it, out in the 'Pine Barrens", outside of Mount Holly. But those were 1963 Silver Certificate dollars. Today it would be closer to $40 per round.