Der Speigel says Russia was not at fault for MH17

a reply to: Zaphod58

Wow, that's amazing. US 30mm AP shells make a hole that you can put your hand through,but Russian 30mm AP shells make holes that you can put your finger into. Proof that US weapons are better!

Amazing that you can show them the difference yet they still believe the impossible.

Gotta love ATS.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
This page has a great example of what a 30mm round can do. The Mk108 vs Spitfire picture is a Spitfire hit by a 30mm round, and it's almost blown completely in half. But somehow a 30mm shell in this case leaves tiny holes.

I´ll just ignore the supposed size of the holes for now and say that you are talking about 30mm high explosive rounds. Are these the only type of 30mm round that exist?

a reply to: HappyThoughts

That particular picture is, yes, however, if you keep reading, there's another picture I put up that is of a 30mm Armor Piercing round that STILL leaves a large hole, in an armored vehicle.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Plugin

30mm ain't that big, it's 3 cm.. if it just penetrates and no explosion the holes ain't that huge.

Really...

Looks pretty big to me unless the man in the video is a midget with small hands.

The diameter is still 30 mm wether the man is a midget or not. Nothing that poster said is untrue.

a reply to: Zaphod58

there's another picture I put up that is of a 30mm Armor Piercing round that STILL leaves a large hole, in an armored vehicle.

And is a 777 an armored vehicle? No, so a 30 mm round will cut through the thin aluminium like a hot knife through butter with almost no resistance, not making a bigger hole than its diameter.

Also, you have no way of knowing what kind of 30mm round could've been used.

All I see is two guys drivelling, acting like they actually know something.

a reply to: HappyThoughts

There are only two 30mm rounds in general use, Armor Piercing, and High Explosive. There are pictures of smaller caliber rounds hitting unarmored targets that left much bigger holes, which is the same that should have happened here.

Amazing how people that don't agree are "drivelling, acting like they actually know something", but you're not, when you have no better information, but you know that it was an aircraft.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I think I just showed why you are drivelling. You are giving bad examples that don't apply, or can't be sure of that they apply.

a reply to: HappyThoughts

The diameter is still 30 mm wether the man is a midget or not. Nothing that poster said is untrue.

And yet it still won't leave the small holes that this poster wants everyone to believe.

Now can you show me what a 30mm round hole looks like because I can show you with a comparison to a 50 cal, and a 20 mm hole, in fact I already posted the pic.

So can you show me a 30mm round that makes a hole as small as the ones in the pics of MH17?

a reply to: Zaphod58

There are only two 30mm rounds in general use, Armor Piercing, and High Explosive.

You forgot one.

30 mm ammunition generally comes in three varieties: armor piercing (AP), high explosive (HE), and training rounds

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: HappyThoughts

I think I just showed why you are drivelling. You are giving bad examples that don't apply, or can't be sure of that they apply.

Here I'll post it again...



Now let's see you provide a pic that shows the 30mm round making such a small hole, should be easy since you and certain others are so convinced it leaves such a small hole. And don't post a pic of MH17 and say that is the hole it makes.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I will when I get back.

I'll just leave you with this , the pic you posted is the result of a 30mm AP round on an armored target.

First of, you can't be sure that an AP round would've been used on MH17, and MH17 was not an armored target, just a thin layer of aluminium.

Do you see why your stuff is drivel now?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You can't see how big those holes are on that picture.
Only relative to 20mm and 90 cal, not the actual size, also it's armor piercing or explosive?

Anyways this discussion gets tiresome, no point debating, nobody can prove it.

As also nobody can prove it was a rocket that downed that plane. So believe what you want. It doesn't matter. Ego's at play who want to be right.

a reply to: HappyThoughts

So they used training rounds to shoot it down? Sure they did. Why use more effective HE or AP ammunition when you can use a training round.

a reply to: Plugin

You can't see how big those holes are on that picture.
Only relative to 20mm and 90 cal, not the actual size, also it's armor piercing or explosive?

Well if that was a 90 cal it wouldn't leave such a small hole at entry...a little about the 90 cal for your enjoyment.



That was a 50 cal in the comparison, so I wonder if you actually know what your talking about. They only have three types of 30mm rounds and they all make one large hole at entry not small holes.

a reply to: Zaphod58

So they used training rounds to shoot it down?

Well isn't that what every airforce in the world does when flying into an active conflict?

a reply to: Plugin

As also nobody can prove it was a rocket that downed that plane. So believe what you want. It doesn't matter. Ego's at play who want to be right.

But yet it can be proven that it wasn't a 30mm round from an SU25 because the plane won't fly that high and it can't shoot it's cannon at that height without stalling if it even got to that altitude. But hey let's not let the manufacturer and what they say get in the way of a good lie, I mean conspiracy.

Also know the motto is Deny Ignorance...not promote it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Because everybody would notice that the plane was shot at with a jet cannon?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

and it can't shoot it's cannon at that height without stalling if it even got to that altitude.

Why can't it shoot the cannon at that height without stalling? What a load of BS right there.

a reply to: HappyThoughts

Well according to you, and others, they've already noticed that it was shot down by a jet! So what good did that do them?

a reply to: HappyThoughts

Because according to Sukhoi, who actually MAKES the Su-25 that everyone claims did the deed, the service ceiling is far below the 32,000 feet that the plane was flying at.