U.S. Military MAY be exploring or be in contact with a MASSIVE Dyson Sphere!

Reciting technical jargon that might fit a situation does not make it into a fact.

That mind splinter tells me there is something off with the whole description.

Sometimes details are used to distract the mind from examining that big picture and finding the flaw.

So long before something's for sale?

A book?
A DVD?
A BluRay?
A Laserdisk?
The files?
Plans to make a free energy machine?
Alien bogeys?
An old teapot?

a reply to: StargateSG7

It's bogus.

Great Scott Danny - this genius cracked TWO AES keys in .. FIVE WEEKS

!

If he could do that, he'd either be famous / filthy rich and / or work for Acronym. Nope, that cowboy may know a bit about cows and teats - but he never tasted milk.

Even with a supercomputer, cracking a 128 bit AES key using a brute force approach would take something like one billion billion years. And you'd need a way to recognise the plaintext message, it's not like the algorithm has a built in alert for that

People think this is simple, but it is not! Even the simplest to crack AES variation (AES128) has roughly 3x10^38 possible key combinations. That's 3400.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 possible keys. You could start with key number one and decide to decrypt all 240 Gb of data (remember: it was hex encoded), then check if you had all hex data. Though AES is very fast, this still would take considerable time for each try. Even if you had an incredible system that could decrypt the ciphertext and analyze the resulting plaintext in say a second, you still would need 4*10^38 seconds - that billions of years.

Sure, you simply could try one block and if any key you'd try would result in hex code, you'd go along and decipher the next block until one failed, then go to the next key. This is a much faster way, but a) you'd already need to know that the disk contained encrypted HEX data so you could have the computer check for a canidate key and b) there are 3400.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 possible keys to try.... even if you could do a million per second - still billions of years.

Sure, you MIGTH get lucky on the first try. But statistically it would take roughly half of the guesses to find the key. To put it simple: it would still take all computers we have today more than the know age of the universe (>13 billion years).

Okay, let's assume and assume even more. If a brainless fool encrypts a disk using a good algorithm like AES, but he uses a very short key and say we knew or assumed this, and we knew that this key was probably a common word in say an English dictionary - we could perform a far more efficient brute force attack. A lot of assumptions and to be honest: fairly stupid ones given we know this is TS data at least.

But even then. Let's assume the hex data could be revealed. So, we broke the first layer. Now we are left with 240 GB of hex data. You'd then need to convert the hex data into binary, which would render seemingly random data (as that data was also encrypted using AES, according to what is said in the OP).

You'd then had to start your second round of lucky number guessing. And again you're faced with the problem how you would know you had the correct key. the data is disk data and in turn may contain seemingly random data (which is encrypted data or random data). So, even if you cracked the key - maybe you would not even notice you did. Secondly: again you'd need more time than the Universe existed to break the key, unless again they used an incredibly short key and or you were stupifying lucky and hit it by accident (1:4*10^30 tries, remember)..

So, only if you have a lot of additional info like "these are AES encrypted disks, they should be used in this order, they contain an AES encrypted hex dump of a disk" and knew or assumed that the * that encrypted all this does not know his kranium from his kadoozle and so used absurdly simple, short keys - and you'd have a pretty good supercomputer and a lot of luck, only then might you be able to break two layer of AES encryption in five weeks. I don't think so.

All in all, it is safe to say that the message was not obtained from a doubly encrypted set of flash memory cards. It originated from the creative brain of a creative human. Probably OP.

Nice try, nice theories, but no proof and so this should be in the HOAX or FANTASY / SF section.

This is complete bogus. I'm sorry, but weve been playing this game for so long. If there arent pictures and videos, its all a lie.

originally posted by: defuntion
a reply to: StargateSG7

I am sorry Stargate, but after reading the OP and many of your responses defending the ideas and concepts proposed therein, I am going to have to call you out as the original author..

I would Love to be wrong, but you seem to have a lot of "supporting knowledge" of the subjects discussed..

Writing styles are very similar.

I do give you credit for a good attempt.

Again, I want to be wrong..

First Things First Peoples.

Please stop SHOOTING THE MESSENGER!

I just copy text and paste it to ATS. I saved it for a REASON!
I like the scientific subject matter and since I'm interested
in Aliens and Alien technology when I see something like this
I pounce on it. This text post is VERY SIMILAR in writing style
to my earlier 2009 posts which is another reason I have posted it.

AND OF COURSE I have the supporting educational background
regarding this subject. First, I have a Diploma In Broadcast Television
Operations (Graphics Option) so it means I have a MEDIA BACKGROUND.
Second, I've been working with computers since I was 7 years old which
now gives me 38 years of experience with computer technology.
Finally, I am also a VIDEO GRAPHICS PROGRAMMER which means I know
a heck of a lot about the inner workings of computer systems and
since I ALSO DO network administration on Windows, Linux, MAC
and other operating systems I would say I have a pretty good
insight how that all works. I also write Encryption/Decryption
software (Quantum Computing and Shore's Algorithm Resistant)
so I ALSO HAVE a good understanding of hacking per se.

And ONE REASON WHY the text might seem like my writing style
is that, as noted in previous posts, I have CHANGED the formatting
of the original text AND fixed some spelling errors to a more ATS
posting friendly format. The original text format does
GIVE A CLUE as to the original author.

The ORIGINAL TEXT I copied was much wider at almost
120 characters across per line which means it was written
by someone who has NO CONCEPT of small screen monitors
and 80 character line limits, and in addition, the NUMEROUS
TXT-MSG-SPKNG mannerisms that were present (such R for ARE,
or b for BE, etc.) which drove me bonkers so I changed them.
The STYLE of paragraph formatting AND the fact that certain
words were the British formats (such as Neighbour for neighbor
and Programme for program) indicates to me that the original
hacker or writer was LIKELY A YOUNG BRITISH MALE less than
30 years of age. I'm not 30! I'm way older! And I TRY to avoid
text message speak since I find it too difficult to read.
I have changed the original to put that teenage text
message speak into PROPER ADULT ENGLISH.

And since this person is likely a NERD, he is text book strident
with a television news commentator style in his writings which
are identical to mine because I WAS TRAINED in college to write
that way. That means the original author is ALSO MEDIA SAVVY
or GREW UP in a media saturated environment. Ergo, he talks
like me because he grew up that way. Ergo, he's young!

And regarding my defense of the text, I should note that once
I saw the October 12, 1992 episode (Season 6, episode 4 Title: RELICS)
of Star Trek: The Next Generation Episode on Dyson Spheres
I came to a realization that such a structure MUST BE POSSIBLE
and is LIKELY ALREADY OUT THERE! And that fascination is what
drives me to DEFEND the general outline of this text.

I don't care to much for the extreme closeup details
of alien genitalia, but the Dyson Sphere information
entices me, so I have no problem with the text content
itself but of course I cannot defend its legitimacy or
truthfulness because I DO NOT KNOW it's original source.
I can only make educated GUESSES as to the veracity
of the text itself and its content.

AGAIN, STOP SHOOTING THE MESSENGER!

I'm just SHOWING YOU the text. I'm not writing it!

It's a very interesting and fantastic story. Thanks for posting it.

However, according to the OP:

18 November 1947
OSS USAAF
SFP MAJ TFR Reel 5
R H Hillenkoetter
D S Fahrney

is problematic because the US Army Air Force (USAAF) had been disbanded on 18 September 1947, so by 18 November 1947 it no longer existed, and was now known as the US Air Force (USAF) source

Also assuming that OSS means Office of Strategic Services, that was dissolved on September 20, 1945. source



Dex

originally posted by: wmd_2008

originally posted by: Thill

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: StargateSG7

Well here is the only dyson sphere in existence with James Dyson holding it.

Dyson

Seriously that's the problems with way out ideas I would like to see someone who thinks they are possible at a solar scale to work out the amount of material to construct it

To be fair, (even thou I call this one a nice sci-fi story and will be seeing it in the hoax bin soon) if we would be talking about a civilization that would have the means and technology to even attempt to build a dyson sphere around their star, they would have the means to find the raw materials.

If you look at the suggested reason to build a dyson sphere if you were able to transport the required material and build it, it would be easier just to move to a new system in the first place

Why do humans climb mountains? Because it's there!

Why do we go to the moon? Because we can!

So why wouldn't a technologically superior civilization build a Dyson Sphere?

I can see two reasons:

1) Keep one single safe and stable home base for many trillions of inhabitants.

2) Because they have the ability to do so and have the DESIRE to do so.

They're ALIENS. We cannot possibly know what and how they think.
If you say WHY? I say WHY NOT?

They would have their own reasons and I think while a humanoid
(as was said in the text) would likely have SIMILARITIES in thought
processes to us Earth bound humans, I think it is foolhardy to attribute
ALL or even ANY human traits to them, including precluding them from
building such megastructures as a Dyson Sphere.

originally posted by: DexterRiley
It's a very interesting and fantastic story. Thanks for posting it.

However, according to the OP:

18 November 1947
OSS USAAF
SFP MAJ TFR Reel 5
R H Hillenkoetter
D S Fahrney

is problematic because the US Army Air Force (USAAF) had been disbanded on 18 September 1947, so by 18 November 1947 it no longer existed, and was now known as the US Air Force (USAF) source

Also assuming that OSS means Office of Strategic Services, that was dissolved on September 20, 1945. source



Dex

That's an interesting note and some good digging there.
Can't tell anything or refute anything about because I have
little knowledge of title slate usage in government film agencies.
It's one thing to consider. It would have been nice to have examples
of other title slates and some video footage or still images too so that
further historical references could be correlated, but I do not have those
as the original text was a cut and paste from a Craigslist Rants and Raves forum.

Score one for the POSSIBLE HOAX side!

a reply to: StargateSG7

Whats interesting to me is that I have never heard of Dyson spheres but I predicted that is the first thing most alien civilizations would attempt to do after they have advanced technologies including AI and also easy access to space. The part of the story I don't understand would be why most alien life resemble humans in general. Of course if I could think of Dyson spheres, then so could disinformation experts or hoaxers.

a reply to: StargateSG7

I'd say at least 3:0 for the debunkers:

1. USAAF and OSS already were dissolved on the date mentioned in the supposed film(s)
   
2. Hillenkoetters diary which shows he never was at the supposed meeting
   
3. it is statistically impossible to decrypt doubly AES encrypted materials within 5 weeks (!)
   

OP, you keep saying "don't shoot the messenger". However, as you say you are savvy w/regard to encryption - how come you weren't trigggered by the nonsense in the original post about being able to decrypt doubly AES encrypted materials within 5 weeks due to some flaw in the S-boxes algorithm?

Come on, you said you understood encryption - do you really and if so, do you have a rebuttal? Do you perhaps assume that it is plausible that somebody that leaks TS+ data would AES encrypt it using a VERY weak key, then hex encode it so it grows double size (!), then split it over 30+ flash disks, after which he encrypts it again - but using a VERY weak key - then he writes a plaintext message that points out these facts and stores it on the flash disk (or maybe writes it on the box that containes the 30 memoryh cards..), then carefully numbers the flash disks so the guy on the other end knows in which order to decrypt it..?

Man, if that were the case, he might as well have published it plaintext on the Internet himself, adding his name and address..

a reply to: StargateSG7

Well, not necessarily. OSS can also be "Operational Support Squadron." So, an OSS would be the one tasked with documenting such an event as this.

Also since November 1947 is only 2 months after the creation of the USAF, I can imagine that could be a typo, so to speak. Much like we do in the month of January, when we continue to date things with the previous year rather than the current year. It's also unlikely that all of the old USAAF uniforms, insignia, and aircraft marking had been upgraded by that time.

SFP also means "Special Film Project." So, that fits.

In summary, I wouldn't discard the write-up based on a possible typo by the airman filming the event.


Dex

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: StargateSG7

I'd say at least 3:0 for the debunkers:

1. USAAF and OSS already were dissolved on the date mentioned in the supposed film(s)
   
2. Hillenkoetters diary which shows he never was at the supposed meeting
   
3. it is statistically impossible to decrypt doubly AES encrypted materials within 5 weeks (!)
   

OP, you keep saying "don't shoot the messenger". However, as you say you are savvy w/regard to encryption - how come you weren't trigggered by the nonsense in the original post about being able to decrypt doubly AES encrypted materials within 5 weeks due to some flaw in the S-boxes algorithm? Come on, you said you understood encryption - do you really and if so, do you have a rebuttal? Do you, for example, think it is plausible that somebody that leaks TS+ data would AES encrypt it using a VERY weak key, then hex encode it, then split it over 30+ flash disks, encrypt it again using a VERY weak key, write a message that points out these facts, numbers the flash disks so the guy on the other end knows how to decrypt it..?

I included the encryption original text which to me DOES SEEM LIKE
gobbleygook, but I should note that if you turn your mind OFF a bit
and sink yourself into a teenager's or a younger person's mindset,
you will see that he does not explicitly say that he absolutely broke
the AES encryption system itself but rather he used some incomprehensible
(to me at least!) attack on the disk image itself which in MY PERSONAL BELIEF
that means that in some way he was able to obtain access to a passcode or
data entry system that may have had the original key within what I suppose
would be a system cache file or a TEMP file.

As someone who has done encryption work, I can tell you that the weakest
point in encryption and decryption software is the data entry of a password
using a Windows Edit Box and the ability of Windows to move blocks of
memory into and out of SWAP and TEMP files which can make your plaintext
password visible to someone who can read hard drives at a low-level using
a hard disk sector editor. MANY programmers are too lazy (or inexperienced)
to scramble any entered password before passing it off to the verification
routine and are too lazy or inexperienced to overwrite the memory location
containing a string version of the password once verification has been completed.

And one OTHER VULNERABILITY is that the large intermediate and final keys
produced by AES or any other SHIFT BOX oriented algorithm TENDS to require
some space in global heap memory that CAN BE SWAPPED OUT TO DISK if there
is low RAM memory issue unless LOCAL RAM has been explicitly LOCKED in place.
This means the windows swap file could STILL HAVE the intermediate or final
keys and you can stick those in a custom AES implementation to decrypt
a data stream.

Many implementations of AES, which tend to be created on Linux system
using a C/C+ compiler, don't explicitly lock RAM into place, they use global
heap memory instead of routine-oriented local stack memory and they
TEND to use global variables instead of CPU registers. This reduces the
security of an AES implementation and makes it VULNERABLE to
getting keys and passwords swapped out to a TEMP file which
can then be read by a hard disk sector editor.

So again, it is my belief that the hacker took five weeks to search
the entire original drive image so as to find non-encrypted data
that may have been stored in TEMP or system cache files and
he MAY HAVE attacked the AES encrypted data using plain text
found within those temporary disk files which in some cases
are hidden from view unless you have a sector editor.

I know how boring and how much time it takes to read
512 or 1024 bytes at a time in a hex editor is. It is a
MIND NUMBING TASK so five weeks wouldn't be an
extraordinary amount of time to read a hard disk
image on a sector by sector basis.

It sounds like a task for someone with obsessive
compulsive disorder would do which MANY young
technology nerds or hackers would likely be.

a reply to: wmd_2008

That is true but just because we have a suggested concept why some civilization would want to build a Dyson sphere, does not mean that this would be the only reason. IF there is a Dyson sphere out there, that means that for some reason that civilization opted to stay in their solar system.. Hey maybe they were sentimental

Also one does not exclude the other, meaning that sure you could change systems but still make the Dyson sphere in the original system. Remembering a particular book, imagine a huge computronium (as in a huge computer/ computation matrix) in the form of a dyson sphere for example.

I'm not buying into this. Doesn't quite sound right from the information systems point of view. And, as others mentioned, at least something could be produced as evidence.

Amazing how these Earth shattering bits of information never seems to shatter anything but trust.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: Thill

if we would be talking about a civilization that would have the means and technology to even attempt to build a dyson sphere around their star, they would have the means to find the raw materials.

Why would there be a need to find raw materials to build?

What if technology was available to such a civilization to be able to transform the vacuum of space and any energy contained into material?


Basically the concept of how chemical reactions can create new compounds, maybe such a civilization can change the fabric of space into malleable materials instead of having to find such great quantities of it.

Well to be honest, the material would have to come from somewhere, and the vacuum of space does not have enough raw materials for that. I was toying with the concept that such advanced civilization would be theoretically able to deconstruct planets and use those raw materials in the construction. But usually the stars are way bigger than most planets (correct me if I am wrong on this), so they would still lack the materials to make a whole sphere. but I wonder, you could always make a dyson ring encompassing only a fraction of the sun. That could work in theory.

Of course if such a civilization would exist, in theory (as suggested by the previous poster), they would have the means to travel between stars in theory, so in theory they could procure those materials from a bunch of different systems

Of course the cost (but again this is the human way of thinking, some alien civ might not have the concept of wealth at all) would be beyond imagining

A lot of 'ifs' and 'coulds' thou

a reply to: StargateSG7

well certainly, if you have 100 million bytes of possible passwords embedded in a memory dump, you could just form nearly all reasonable substrings of printable characters and brute force them all, and look for any decrypted output with a non-uniform entropy or any other structure you imagine.

a reply to: Thill

An interesting RECENT article from Popular Mechanics Magazine

See link:
www.popularmechanics.com...

that asks humanity whether or not we could build a Dyson Sphere.
The article says the answer is NOT RIGHT NOW but that we COULD make
Dyson Swarms and large skyscraper-sized living blocks in space which could
serve the same purpose.

In terms of building materials I think Humanity is getting closer than
many think to having a material STRONG ENOUGH to build a full size
Dyson Sphere.

This article from MIT Technology Review (2013)
Says that a new form of carbon is EVEN STRONGER than Graphene: (CARBYNE)

See link:
www.technologyreview.com...

The Strongest material Known:

Linear acetylenic carbon, also called carbyne, is an allotrope of carbon with
a Young's modulus is 32.7 TeraPascals – forty times that of diamond, the hardest
known material. Calculations indicate that carbyne’s tensile strength of
6.0–7.5×107 N∙m/kg, beats graphene (4.7–5.5×107 N∙m/kg), carbon nanotubes
(4.3–5.0×107 N∙m/kg), and diamond (2.5–6.5×107 N∙m/kg). And Its stiffness of
around 109 N∙m/kg is also double that of graphene, which is around 4.5×108 N∙m/kg. (Wikipedia)

See Link:
en.wikipedia.org...


Carbyne is stronger than any known material:
Phys.ORG website (has references to peer reviewed papers)
phys.org...

Now I think we are getting to a material that could TAKE the forces
of a Solar System sized Dyson Sphere. If WE HUMANS have this already
imagine what a much older alien civilization could do!

So it looks like we are CLOSER THAN YOU THINK to being FULLY ABLE to build a Dyson Sphere!

originally posted by: mbkennel
a reply to: StargateSG7

well certainly, if you have 100 million bytes of possible passwords embedded in a memory dump, you could just form nearly all reasonable substrings of printable characters and brute force them all, and look for any decrypted output with a non-uniform entropy or any other structure you imagine.

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head on what to do in terms
of password cracking. 100 million combinations isn't all that much
when a modern graphics card has between 2 to 8 Teraflops of GPU
horsepower to blow through that much data for an amount somewhere
between $500 to $1500. That is a small price to pay for being able to
crack a password or ten!

I more suspect though that he saw where the Windows Edit Box
sub-routine call was and then figured out the pointer to the string
where the plain text would be stored and just used what he found.
That would be the simplest thing to do. OR he could have figured out
the calls to any shift-box routine and look for pointers to global variables
and deduced the swap file or temp file memory offset location from those
pointers and used the unencrypted intermediate or final keys stored
at those memory locations. That's what I WOULD DO!

Lol, I think you and a lot of people would do the same.

Maybe its already happening. There's another thread posted
recently where they're saying an earth sized object flew into
and then out the of sun. What if it was a giant Dyson Sphere.

Rebel 5

originally posted by: rebelv
Lol, I think you and a lot of people would do the same.

Maybe its already happening. There's another thread posted
recently where they're saying an earth sized object flew into
and then out the of sun. What if it was a giant Dyson Sphere.

Rebel 5

A Dyson sphere would be larger than the Sun; it is a reassembled solar system with a sun in the center.