Fast Food in Denmark Serves Something Atypical: Living Wages

originally posted by: pexx421

Seriously, your ability to judge the value of all Europeans and paint them as "mediocre" is amazing. I must admit, most Europeans I have met have been far more educated and cultured than the majority of americans I know. Most of them also know far more about our history than we do, and a lot more of our politics.

You mean the ones able to travel here? Of course they will be educated and cultured.

Go and spend an extended time there and you will arrive at the same opinion I have.

Also interesting that you talk about the size of government and the freedoms, as most Europeans have much more role in their governments, that are much smaller than ours, less intrusive in their freedoms, and according to you, socialist nanny states.

Which ones are smaller and which countries have direct democracies?

Lastly, we didn't say maternity and paternity leave...we said PAID maternity and paternity leave. Massive difference there, and if you don't get it, I am not spelling it out for you.

I quite frankly do not want to pay for other people to take time off. If they want to start a family it is not my responsibility to compensate them financially for not working.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I love the, " why should I pay for xxxxxx" response.

Whenever I read it I picture a very smug looking person turning their nose up into the air after stating that loudly with their eyes closed.

Funny imagery I have associated with it.

a reply to: onequestion

All your fun imagery aside, why should we pay for other people's personal decisions?

Why is it my responsibility to pay so the person down the street can have children? When did that become society's concern?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I think as a society the health of the child and of the family are paramount. It's safe to say that I am in support of putting even the smallest amount of effort into helping someone else out for no reason other then to do it.

originally posted by: onequestion
I think as a society the health of the child and of the family are paramount.

Which is the family's obligation and responsibility, not mine.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus Wow. The regulating agencies for the hospitals, are PRIVATE!! JCAHO is a private entity. Also, JP Morgan/chase makes billions off of food stamps, just for fees in issuing out the cards...also Walmart makes billions off of food stamps...which is why those two groups always lobby in favor of them. See how that works? Medicare expansion act was written by the pharmaceutical industry, and made it so our government could not negotiate prices and had to pay whatever those companies demand. Therefore americans often pay 1000 times what other people pay for the same medicine. They passed this legislation so they could make TONS OF MONEY. The insurance companies are now guaranteed millions more customers due to the affordable care act, ie they make TONS OF MONEY because of it. See how that works?

And no you don't get to vote on key issues....you have the illusion of voting, but anyone you are voting on has already been vetted by the corporations, hence regardless of who you THINK you are voting in, the corporations get what they want, and you get the warm feeling (illusion) of having some say so. Yes, I realize it is a representative republic, which is the way they fleece you of any true say in your future. The only way to influence the system is through civil disobedience. they have made sure that all other paths are ineffective.

Lastly, who do you think your taxes eventually wind up in the pocket of? the government isn't just holding on to it. Its giving it, in no bid contracts to the people who finance the representatives campaigns, or to the companies that give them bribes or kickbacks. I am not speaking locally, I am speaking federally, but even much of the local taxes wind up in the pockets of contractors and businesses who got their position by nepotism and bribery, ahem, contributions.

Oh, and our social programs are PROFITABLE to private businesses, as I pointed out above. Another thing....shell, a dutch company, is relevant because they are a powerful corporation that pays tons of money to manipulate legislation and policy in its favor. I am not only referring to US based corporations when I criticize big business, the real powers are transnational....but they have much more influence over US policy than most other first world nations because, well, they pulled strings and filled pockets to get things like "citizens united" and other such legislation passed to bypass the American voters and tip the power scales in their favor. Yes, even a dutch oil company has more influence in US politics and government than actual American voters. As do fanatical and bellicose regimes such as Saudi Arabia, and Israel, more influence than you or I who are born and raised here and pay taxes.

I wish I was making this stuff up, but if you live here and don't recognize the reality of the situation, just keep your head in the sand with your phony two party system, casting blame back and forth, when in reality both groups are getting exactly what they are working for, as is the top .1%, while the American working class is clueless and disenfranchised.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

And right here is exactly the selfish amoral society that why find ourselves in.

Who cares about that family not my responsability.

Who cares about those kids ain't mine.

Lovely world this ideology is creating isn't it?

originally posted by: onequestion

Lovely world this ideology is creating isn't it?

The idea that a family takes care of itself is what is going by the bye when big-government advocates feel that the nanny state would be a better option than self reliance.

a reply to: pexx421

I'd give you three stars if I could.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus That's the thing. You are not paying for other people. That's not the idea. The idea is they are getting more for their work. They aren't given these things for free. They decided a long time ago, that the nations resources should benefit everyone somewhat more equally than ours do. They don't get healthcare because someone else is paying for it.....they work for it, and they support it. They don't get FREE paid maternity and paternity leave. They work for it and earn it. They all pay into the system, and in return the system gives them all a return. Lets contrast this with the system you live in. Your system takes all your taxes, and uses them in a way that bests enriches a very small group of people. Your system takes your money and wages wars. Your system takes your money and then uses it to subsidize massively wealthy corporations that pay paupers sums and pass the burden of its workers support back onto the taxpayers. Your system takes your taxes and funnels them to the businesses (arms manufacturing, MIC, etc) owned by the very people making the laws and taking the money.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The fact is no one takes care of themselves they participate in a system. The system relies on our ability to work together. Get off your high horse. You couldn't take care of yourself if you tried right now. Hell you wouldn't even have toilet paper.

originally posted by: pexx421

Wow. The regulating agencies for the hospitals, are PRIVATE!! JCAHO is a private entity.

It is a non-profit organization so spare me your hysterics.

Also, JP Morgan/chase makes billions off of food stamps, just for fees in issuing out the cards...also Walmart makes billions off of food stamps...which is why those two groups always lobby in favor of them.

So now it is Walmart's fault that the government subsidized programs hand out cash?

See how that works? Medicare expansion act was written by the pharmaceutical industry, and made it so our government could not negotiate prices and had to pay whatever those companies demand. Therefore americans often pay 1000 times what other people pay for the same medicine. They passed this legislation so they could make TONS OF MONEY. The insurance companies are now guaranteed millions more customers due to the affordable care act, ie they make TONS OF MONEY because of it. See how that works?

And it all goes back to big government nonsense. None of these programs would exist if it were not for pandering politicians looking to grease the People for votes.

And no you don't get to vote on key issues....you have the illusion of voting, but anyone you are voting on has already been vetted by the corporations, hence regardless of who you THINK you are voting in, the corporations get what they want, and you get the warm feeling (illusion) of having some say so. Yes, I realize it is a representative republic, which is the way they fleece you of any true say in your future. The only way to influence the system is through civil disobedience. they have made sure that all other paths are ineffective.

Yada, yada, yada. Corporations are bad. I have no voice. Woe is me. If your life here is so futile why do you continue to go on living?

Lastly, who do you think your taxes eventually wind up in the pocket of? the government isn't just holding on to it. Its giving it, in no bid contracts to the people who finance the representatives campaigns, or to the companies that give them bribes or kickbacks. I am not speaking locally, I am speaking federally, but even much of the local taxes wind up in the pockets of contractors and businesses who got their position by nepotism and bribery, ahem, contributions.

Whatever you say. I see where my local taxes go, we get a budgetary breakdown each year.

Your Federal taxes go to societal programs. They have breakdowns on this too.

Oh, and our social programs are PROFITABLE to private businesses, as I pointed out above.

Which is why none of them should exist. I can do a much better job with my money then the government.

Another thing....shell, a dutch company, is relevant because they are a powerful corporation that pays tons of money to manipulate legislation and policy in its favor. I am not only referring to US based corporations when I criticize big business, the real powers are transnational...

Then they are totally irrelevant as you said these things were happening here.

I wish I was making this stuff up, but if you live here and don't recognize the reality of the situation, just keep your head in the sand with your phony two party system, casting blame back and forth, when in reality both groups are getting exactly what they are working for, as is the top .1%, while the American working class is clueless and disenfranchised.

You may be clueless and disenfranchised but I certainly do not feel that way about myself.

originally posted by: pexx421

That's the thing. You are not paying for other people. That's not the idea. The idea is they are getting more for their work. They aren't given these things for free. They decided a long time ago, that the nations resources should benefit everyone somewhat more equally than ours do.

Well if that is the case here is a really simplistic question I think you can answer:

Do they all pay the same amount?

originally posted by: onequestion

The fact is no one takes care of themselves they participate in a system. The system relies on our ability to work together. Get off your high horse. You couldn't take care of yourself if you tried right now. Hell you wouldn't even have toilet paper.

Yeah, I would, because I am productive, earn money and use that to purchase goods and or services. That is my interaction with the system and I am not looking to increase my tax burden further to appease big-government advocates for nannification.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus Jcaho does a nice share of lobbying, which puts it as a group using government to accrue wealth. And yes, it is walmarts fault that government subsidies hand out cash....because they pay to make sure it gets done! And you are making my points for me, thank you, but you are mistaken. The politicians don't pander to people for votes...because the votes don't matter. They pander to business for contributions. You are intentionally avoiding the point. Government and big business are the same thing. You claim to be against government but for business.....that is a contradiction.

And then you contradict yourself. You originally stated that government programs cost business money, then when I explain that those government programs exist specifically to benefit business, then you state that you can do a better job with your money than the government. Well, guess what? You could do a better job with finding healthcare than your government too, and choosing your vaccines, and putting money aside for car accidents. But BUSINESS has made it so this is not possible, the prices are hyperinflated, and you are required to pay for it. THIS is the point, please stop detracting. The big businesses that you purport are working in our best interest are the exact same groups that have made the government what it is.

And to your point about making transnational corporations irrelevant....how so? Groups like shell and bayer are a significant portion of both your government, and the business sector you claim is so good for us. How are they irrelevant?

That you don't know that you are clueless and disenfranchised is exactly what they have spent millions of dollars in psyops research, and billions of dollars on PR to ensure. You represent exactly what they want, which is working class people fighting and voting against their own best interest. I can tell you are proud, and honestly, I can only feel sympathy, in the same way I feel sympathy for the many children in military service who actually believe in the mission, without ever realizing that they have no clue what the true mission really is.

a reply to: pexx421

"My brother owned a painting and drywall company, and I did payroll, so I know how it went. He billed the customers 32 an hour for my labor, which he then paid me 16 an hour for. He also billed them for the paint and supplies, so no, that does not come out of what he billed them for my services. He only had about 15 employees, he never had to paint or anything himself, and he made 16k a month profit off of our labor after he paid all his workers....and all he had to do was make estimates, and then go inspect finished jobs. You can bet he was living it up."

So after trying to convince you the opportunities are still available and listening to the endless drone of poor me it can't be done anymore, money is worthless and corporate America rules the world. And poor little pexx421 and his friends just don't have the same chance as MG had when he was young it all turns out to be bullsh*t because even your brother can do it.

I sighted how many examples from foreigners I know to my own kid making it today, that it was your mindset holding you back, and bla bla bla while your brother was out making great money setting the example right before your eyes and yet you refuse to see it. Gee it must be because what, it's easier to complain than dig in and have the life you want. What a fabulous load of crying BS you have dispensed in this thread.

a reply to: MarlinGrace Again, missing the point. My life is fine. But I recognize, as you seem unable to do, that the vast majority of people are much worse off than when I was younger. And further, that as long as the system continues in the current patterns, with corporations and business running the US government, that my children and their children, are in for a world of hurt. But like our business sector, It seems you don't care about the situation you are leaving to your children, and to future generations, as long as you get what you want out of it.

look, ive said before, I am not arguing for myself from my perspective insofar as I don't need handouts. I netted me an easy two year degree that can guarantee me a comfortable salary of 75-100k depending upon where I live. But, having been in the health industry for over a decade, It is very clear to me that the situation is depreciating, and standards of living are declining. I can be comfortable enough now, but I choose to pay attention to how the wind blows, and to not wait until we are all pushed down to poverty levels for skilled labor before recognizing what is going on and trying to make other people aware of it.

originally posted by: pexx421

Jcaho does a nice share of lobbying, which puts it as a group using government to accrue wealth.

Are you dense? It is a 501:C:3 which it means it cannot accrue anything.

And yes, it is walmarts fault that government subsidies hand out cash...

Really? I think the morons in Washington concocted that scheme without Walmart's input.

And then you contradict yourself. You originally stated that government programs cost business money, then when I explain that those government programs exist specifically to benefit business, then you state that you can do a better job with your money than the government.

How is that a contradiction? Government over reach costs all of us money and I certainly can do a better job investing my money or planning my future than the government.

Well, guess what? You could do a better job with finding healthcare than your government too, and choosing your vaccines, and putting money aside for car accidents. But BUSINESS has made it so this is not possible, the prices are hyperinflated, and you are required to pay for it.

Huh? My insurance prices are low all around because they are with private sector companies. I can shop for lower rates at any time and change whenever I want.

THIS is the point, please stop detracting. The big businesses that you purport are working in our best interest are the exact same groups that have made the government what it is.

Where did I say that big business is working in anyone's best interest?

And to your point about making transnational corporations irrelevant....how so? Groups like shell and bayer are a significant portion of both your government, and the business sector you claim is so good for us. How are they irrelevant?

Stop shifting the goal posts. You claimed all these horrible things were happening HERE and the crappy examples you brought to the table were all overseas.

That you don't know that you are clueless and disenfranchised is exactly what they have spent millions of dollars in psyops research, and billions of dollars on PR to ensure. You represent exactly what they want, which is working class people fighting and voting against their own best interest. I can tell you are proud, and honestly, I can only feel sympathy, in the same way I feel sympathy for the many children in military service who actually believe in the mission, without ever realizing that they have no clue what the true mission really is.

Maybe one day I will be as clued in as you are and get all pissy and angry making useless internet posts bemoaning my life.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus Hm. A mistake you and MG keep making. Not once have I complained about my life. What I am pointing out is the inequities of a system in which big business owns government and uses that power to steal more and more money and power from the working class as time goes on. The argument here is all about me stating that our system does not represent the people, nor does it provide a fair return for our taxation, and that it is run by corrupt and greedy businesses for their own interest. You, on the other hand, seem to argue that this is not the case, and try to state.....what, exactly? That the government is not run by big business, and that it just makes all judgments in big business' favor by chance? That it is a fair system? That we actually do have a say, and that we chose it to be like this? Recognize, please.....the poor don't vote. The poor don't write legislation. The poor are not the cause of our problems. The wealthy do vote, and they buy votes, and they write the legislation. Everything that you are complaining about our system was brought about by select groups, owning businesses that profit from the status quo. You want to state, it seems, that everything is fine, and the the US of A is the same land of opportunity it always has been, despite all statistical analysis. All I really hear you saying is "hey, I am doing fine, so F everybody else". Guess what? I am doing fine too. But I still manage to have concern for my peers and for future generations. I still manage to look around me, and talk to people, and to recognize the patterns of politics, history, and power.

Two elections ago I had right wing friends who, when they saw Obama was going to get elected, expressed their fear that the country was going to go to hell. We would all be muslims. We would retreat from all wars. I also had democratic (and black) friends who thought it was the dawn of a new day. That the people would prosper, and civil rights would be emphasized. I knew well before that that both were wrong....that it would be business as usual, with decreased rights for civilians, erosion of our freedoms, expansions of taxes and war, and continued opacity. More money for corporations and less for the people....oh, and the bailouts and QE. Because both groups are two sides of the same face. The face of corporate power and business. It is this that drives every single thing you complain about. Don't like illegal immigration? It profits business, so it will continue. Don't like welfare? It profits business, so it will continue. Don't like inflating health care costs? Inflation? Depreciation of the dollar? Labor surplus? All these things profit big business....are enacted by big business, and will continue. End your war on the poor, and your hatred for your fellow man. They are not the disease here. They are victims of the same system that you are.