Nurse Under Ebola Quarantine Criticizes Her Treatment

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Khaleesi

Okay.... when... exactly when.... does a person become contagious? Exactly when?

When they exhibit symptoms.

That is the WHOLE PURPOSE of quarantine. Waiting it out to make sure a person does not have the virus.

Then there will be no end to the quarantine. The WHO says that 2% of those who eventually display symptoms can take longer than 42 days to do so. So, how long do you want the quarantine to last without symptoms?

It should be understood upfront before they ever leave the States that quarantine WILL happen when they return.

Except that no one knew about this unilateral decision by New York and New Jersey until it was recently announced. Except that volunteers will become scarce and that will degrade the ability to fight the epidemic where it is.

I am a HCW and frankly I would expect it. It will also be in their best interest to be in quarantine in the case that that do have the virus.

Why? What treatment can they recieve that would help them if they are not symptomatic?

Then there will be no end to the quarantine. The WHO says that 2% of those who eventually display symptoms can take longer than 42 days to do so. So, how long do you want the quarantine to last without symptoms?

42 days if it takes that long.

Except that no one knew about this unilateral decision by New York and New Jersey until it was recently announced. Except that volunteers will become scarce and that will degrade the ability to fight the epidemic where it is.

it is true that it was just implemented, but i think you and those that say that "volunteers will become scarce" under estimate the hearts and compassion of volunteers, i have no doubt that there would be one step forward for everyone that steps back.
i would also says those that would volunteer, that would let a little inconvenience stop them from going, might not have the heart and compassion that they think and should reevaluate themselves in that matter.

Why? What treatment can they recieve that would help them if they are not symptomatic?

if symptoms develop they are already in a environment that would cut the time down for administering care. also they could receive the same as the doctors that were cured, and if the doctors are willing to give, their plasma could be given to those that become symptomatic, that would a lot faster than if they sit at home, and waited for symptoms to be displayed.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

42 days if it takes that long.

The point is, it can take longer than 42 days in 2% of confirmed cases.

i would also says those that would volunteers that would let a little inconvenience stop them from going, might not have the heart and compassion that they think and should reevaluate themselves in that matter.

High minded talk. I think a pointless exercise (quarantine those without symptoms) is asking more of people who are already willing to make a huge personal sacrifice. I think that knowing that, upon returning from enduring the hardships of west Africa, they will be subjected to quarantine, will be a hindrance.

that would a lot faster than if they sit at home, and waited for symptoms to be displayed.

Why? How long does it take to get to a hospital for treatment if you start to get a fever?

a reply to: Phage

It's not just nurses and doctors who would be subjected to the open-ended quarantine... there's how many American soldiers setting up hospitals in the hot zones? 3000 or more?

What about businessmen and women who travel there for resource extraction?

Should they also face quarantine?

a reply to: masqua

The soldiers have already been told, if I recall correctly, that they will be quarantined before they come back. In country. Not here in the US. There. I am relying on memory. I'd have to dig for a source and frankly some of the info is hard to find. They aren't exactly being forthcoming with info these days. Call my memory faulty if you wish. I believe my memory is correct but don't mind if you question it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

42 days if it takes that long.

The point is, it can take longer than 42 days in 2% of confirmed cases.

i would also says those that would volunteers that would let a little inconvenience stop them from going, might not have the heart and compassion that they think and should reevaluate themselves in that matter.

High minded talk. I think a pointless exercise (quarantine those without symptoms) is asking more of people who are already willing to make a huge personal sacrifice. I think that knowing that, upon returning from enduring the hardships of west Africa, they will be subjected to quarantine, will be a hindrance.

that would a lot faster than if they sit at home, and waited for symptoms to be displayed.

Why? How long does it take to get to a hospital for treatment if you start to get a fever?

The point is, it can take longer than 42 days in 2% of confirmed cases.

fine then take the longest known time that it takes and that is the set point.

High minded talk. I think a pointless exercise (quarantine those without symptoms) is asking more of people who are already willing to make a huge personal sacrifice. I think that knowing that, upon returning from enduring the hardships of west Africa, they will be subjected to quarantine, will be a hindrance.

not high minded at all, a lot of people that volunteer are,,,, there's a word for it that's not coming to me right now, so let's just say they are in for the prestige that comes with volunteering in certain circles. a person that really want's to help someone would and will lay their life down for them. you see it all the time.

Why? How long does it take to get to a hospital for treatment if you start to get a fever?

i don't remember, but if you watch the videos of the people that self monitored, the doctors that came straight from the airport, it seemed to take quite awhile to get them in the doors, then you have to remember that not all hospitals can handle it, where's the nearest one gonna be. plus not counting the needless risk of exposure to responders and the general public that would be there, if in quarantine none of that has to be done or risked if symptom manifest.

a reply to: masqua

yes.
any one that goes into those areas should face the same, unless they stay in a enclosed environment.

question for all what's more important, life or commerce?
if money is all that's stopping the implementation of a Quarantine.
the world is much more screwed up than we think.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

if money is all that's stopping the implementation of a Quarantine. the world is much more screwed up than we think.

If we're motivated by fear and ignorance, is that better?

a reply to: Phage

it's not fear and ignorance, it's common sense.
those that suppose that their great intellect helps them know to better have been proven wrong time and time again, in many different situations and i see nothing that changes that in this one.

hell they can't even agree on the transmission times and means, so why should we take the chances tell me that.

a reply to: Phage

Your arguments have already been broken.

The Duncan / Dallas incident breaks all the illusions of "can't happen" and the idiot heathcare workers that have ran around when sick with the disease has already broken the "responsible self quarantine" argument.

You may sing a different tune if you had a daughter that is an ER nurse who say takes care of a 2 month old infant.


Bottom Line: Our Family is worth more than some BS politically correct ideology or "feelings, hypothesis, and just plain guessing" that it isn't going to be that bad if we dump all common sense and freely import the disease into our country. (INSANITY)


Quarantine also takes care of some Jackass who would take a bunch of advil to get past their fever checkpoints.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, obviously these people need to be quarantined for everyone's safety.

But in a tent!

CDC's FY2014 budget is $6.9 billion

The best they can do is a tent!

7 hours at the airport!

What will they do? Put all the quarantined people together so if just one does have Ebola, all of the others will get infected as well.

CDC $6.9 billion PER YEAR and they are not ready!

They can't handle the handful of cases the have now. What the hell have they been doing for all of these years.

This is just so typical of the US Government, oh wait, is the CDC Government or some Private Enterprise in disguise.

I can't tell you how stupid the US looks right now.

The CDC presents a clear and present danger to the people of the US.

P

Well, at least she's spending her time productively. Maybe the Ebola Czar could represent her. That would be so much more efficient.

White House questions new Ebola rules, nurse plans to sue

(Reuters) - The White House has told states that have imposed mandatory quarantines for some travelers from Ebola-hit West Africa that the policy could impede the fight against the disease, while the first health worker isolated under the rules plans to sue.

Kaci Hickox, a nurse placed in 21-day quarantine in a New Jersey hospital after returning from treating Ebola patients in Sierra Leone, will contest her quarantine in court, her attorney said on Sunday, arguing the order violates her constitutional rights.

a reply to: pheonix358

This is just so typical of the US Government, oh wait, is the CDC Government or some Private Enterprise in disguise.

It's neither the US Government nor the CDC. It is New York and New Jersey.
And, btw, it is a home quarantine.

Amazing what you can learn if you actually read.

a reply to: Phage

I appreciate that, you understand me better than many. I am floored by the comments here, really am.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

hell they can't even agree on the transmission times and means, so why should we take the chances tell me that.

Actually, they can and do agree.
The evidence shows that it is transmitted by contact with bodily fluids from infected persons who are displaying symptoms.
The evidence shows that in 95% percent of cases symptoms appear in 1-21 days and in 98% of cases symptoms appear in 1-42 days.

Just some morning updates...

[Source]...alledgedly from Google cache.

drwill...can't find your post to reply to but this may be what you were referring to earlier. Many "news" stories I've read only mentioned DWB, did not mention the CDC, and then talked about the CDC agreeing with her.

With the amount of noise this woman is making, I'm calling her a political plant or tool. Suing too? And then a lucrative book deal?

Today I'm also wondering if anyone BESIDES her has been placed in quarantine in any of the (what now, four?) states.


ETA: There's a petition out there now to "End the quarantine of Ebola nurse Kaci Hickox." Over 15 signatures so far (16).

But isn't this more about the allegedly horrible conditions under which she is being held than ending her quarantine?


Nurse's Lawyers Promise Legal Challenge to Ebola Quarantine

Civil liberties attorney Norman Siegel said Kaci Hickox, who was quarantined after arriving Friday at the Newark airport, shows no symptoms of being infected and should be released immediately. He and attorney Steven Hyman said the state attorney general’s office had cooperated in getting them access to Hickox.

Late Sunday, a spokesman for New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie issued a statement saying that people who had come into contact with someone with Ebola overseas would be subject to a mandatory quarantine at home. It did not explain why Hickox was being held at the hospital, though it did say, "Non-residents would be transported to their homes if feasible and, if not, quarantined in New Jersey.”

Here's a pic she took of her tent.
[Source]

I think that those who go there should be made aware before they go that there will be a period of quarantine when they come back but I think the gov't needs to get their crap together and start acting responsibly!!
they should have a smooth flowing system set up! Those healthcare workers coming back should be given the best possible accommodations we can provide them! This is just very poor planning on the part of the gov't and it's planning that should have taken place years ago!
God our astronauts go through a period of quarantine it doesn't seem to discourage them from going into space!

I think it was here that someone mentioned the military's standards for quarantine, so I looked.

Military defends its Ebola precautions as stricter than CDC’s, tries to reassure troop

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Do you not understand what a quarantine is or is for? They don't have to be showing symptoms. They have to be segregated from the general population until cleared.

Do you understand that people that don't have ebola symptoms are not contagious? That's not the case with some diseases.

The doctor currently ill in NYC was showing no symptoms. Until he was.

That's right. And he was no danger to anyone until he did. And since his symptoms did not reach an extreme level (vomiting, bleeding, diarrhea) there was minimal danger to anyone contacting him even then.

And when he did become symptomatic and contagious, he could have infected 100's of people before he either collapsed or went to get himself treatment.

Those who he infected would also be asymptomatic until they, like him became symptomatic...the grey area is at exactly which point the infected become contagious, which is fairly undefined, would be different for all people depending on when they were exposed, and how tolerant their immune systems are.

Which is exactly why we have quarantine protocols to segregate potentially infected people.

Frankly, it's utter madness not to quarantine people coming from infected areas.

Let's say for the sake of argument, Doctor A becomes infected while in Africa, and travels home to the US a week later, completely asymptomatic, and waltz's through immigration and goes home.

A month later he is just on the cusp of being symptomatic...although Doctor A is only experiencing Rhino-Virus or influenza symptoms so he isn't too worried.

He goes to the pharmacy, which is crowded with people getting their cold meds and flu shots and general medications...and then Doctor A starts coughing and spluttering and puking all over the place...he is now very symptomatic and very contagious, and unless they are very lucky, the majority of people in the crowded pharmacy will be symptomatic and very contagious within a month to a month and a half...and such is how a pandemic is created and propagated.

It's not the virus, any virus that creates epidemics and pandemics, it is us humans, mostly through ignorance and carelessness and downright cavalier stupidity.

If quarantine is delayed until symptoms are in evidence, then quarantine is probably pointless...as soon as symptoms are apparent, so is the ability to infect others through everyday contact, including surfaces etc.

No point closing the stable door after the horse has bolted is there.

a reply to: ~Lucidity
I've seldom seen such a "look at me" portrait on LinkedIn.
I'm sure she wept a little when it was taken down.


BTW, Dr. Yasmin (whose apparent cosmetic lip injections have given her an unfortunate lisp) is hammering home the talking points. "It really sends a message to the public," she said in regards to her pal Kaci's "inhumane treatment" on Live CNN.