Jesus vs. Yahweh - The Future of Mankind Hangs in the Balance

a reply to: Akragon

Yes it makes me angry that you're actively leading people to hell. That means that I'm using the Bible as a weapon to attack with, and that I'm just generally an all around terrible person.
Because I don't want you to suffer for eternity, when all you have to do is believe on God's testimony of Jesus Christ.

Man, I'm a really bad guy.

You're straight up ridiculous man.

a reply to: graphuto

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Key word: speak, not written

The bible was written by humans and you have to trust that fallible humans wrote down everything 100% correctly, which is not the case since there are teachings which contradict and even the crucifixion of Jesus is a contradiction like how Jesus was crucified on the third hour (Mark 15:25) AND the sixth hour (John 19:14-16 ).

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: Akragon

Yes it makes me angry that you're actively leading people to hell. That makes me a terrible person.

Im not leading anyone to an imaginary place of fire and torment...

IF anything... IF said place exists... YOU are pointing people in that direction by telling them all they need to do is believe... Promoting Pauls words over your saviour...

and that still doesn't make me angry... you make your own bed...

a reply to: arpgme

The Jews and the Romans used different standards for reckoning the hours of the day, although both systems split the day into two periods of 12 hours. A new day for the Romans began at midnight (as it does for us today), whereas a new day for the Jews began in the evening at what we would call 6 p.m.

Mark used the Jewish system and John used the Roman system. Really deep stuff.

a reply to: graphuto

Mark used the Jewish system and John used the Roman system. Really deep stuff.

But the bible didn't say that, therefore it's an interpretation which 'adds' to what was said ("adding to the word").

a reply to: gorsestar

None of what I said is from Sitchen's work. They are all facets taken from different officially translated Sumerian and Babylonian myths. You are naive if you think what I wrote is a product of Sitchen.

I didn't say these characters are actual physical entities, but my point was that if you are really going to base your existence around these stories as fact it makes much more sense for them to be originated from a physical interaction in our past than some supernatural, intangible God who flips between liking us and hating us, and condemns us to eternal punishment in Hell lol.

I didn't say that's a fact. The fact is probably that a goof part of these stories originate from observation of the stars and planets, or at least these aspects are incorporated into a matrix of other stories and influences.

But also remember that some people simply CAN'T accept these stories as just products of complex extrapolations of small things. Some people genuinely have to take these stories to be true in their human not astronomical form and this is why religion exists.

It would be much more beneficial for these people to know the original forms of the human-like stories, rather than rever them in their bastardised form of a singular, dual-desire supreme supernatural God.

But may I ask, what exactly did I say that is NOT contained in official translations? I will go and find every reference for you happily. I bet it was the mention of a council of Gods. This is touched upon a few times, and even as late as in the early Torah texts, where YHWH is referred to as being allotted Earth as his domain by his superiors.

I will also find you official British Museum references of humanoid depictions of some of these characters (such as Enlil handing us the plow and other tools post-flood). The humanoid aspect is not a fabrication of Sitchen but of the ancient people.

You really should actually research these topics more yourself. You seem extremely anti-alien to the point where I'm not even proposing ancient alien theory and you're still attacking me personally. That's nuts.

It doesn't matter whether these stories originally meant planets, stars, comets, symbols of nature, observations of the animal reality and so forth. The point is that at some time in our history these were also conceptualised in human-like ways and this lead to the inception of the modern Bible/Torah/Quran.

Use your mind next time before you jump the gun. It's a great gift you know.

originally posted by: graphuto
Here are 31 practically crystal clear statements from the Bible that GETTING TO HEAVEN is about FAITH.
......................

Not one of these verses say anything about "getting to heaven" or about "heaven.If you mean receiving "salvation" the scriptures clearly testify that all of mankind will be delivered(saved) by Yahoshua from Hades which is the grave..the realm of death and imperception......not the eternal punishment of hell ....which is a false doctrine of men.

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is given by the creator God.

For as the body without the spirit[life] is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The scriptures do not testify that a person is saved "by" faith as the scripture above says ,it is saved BY GRACE....grace is the anointing(christ) which is the works of power of the creator God.Mankind has ZERO power to deliver themselves from Hades…the realm of death and imperception.The grace and faith are BOTH given by the creator God and are the WORKS of the creator God not man.Man can do nothing to earn it or cause their deliverance from the realm of death and imperception(their Belief System religion) in any way.

a reply to: borntowatch

God, Jehovah, YHWH is no tyrant.
He is the King and a Judge and He judged sinners and they were condemned for their sin, simple.

John 5

22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

We can eliminate Yahweh from being the Father here. We can continue to see Yahweh as the Son. It's a process of elimination, and I have struggled through this before writing the thread. It is true that Yahweh was the judge of men in the Old Testament. He needed to rule on his own as he was guided by the Father. This was a guiding by law. This was when we were under law. We were locked up. Now that faith comes, we are no longer under the law, but under THE law of love.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

In this sense, Yahweh was a Guardian.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Paul, in his own writings, never said he was a Pharisee, or that he ever persecuted Christians.
He said he was a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, and kept the Law, without being any more specific than that.

Philippians 3

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

a reply to: borntowatch

Well though I am recalcitrant to a large degree of what Akragon writes and what I assume he/she believes, I totally agree with what is written in this post Faith alone is not enough, we are called to be Christ's servants, servants serve.

Jesus is our Lord and King, kings and lords are rulers and submitting to their laws is the duty of those who serve them. If you deny their laws, live outside those laws, transgress the laws, then you will be labelled a transgressor and cast out from the Lords community.

This post is very important to this thread. All of you read carefully.

I believe I can clear this up with the first few chapters of John. The entire reason that I have been able to see so much from scripture in the last few years is for one reason. I have seen what baptism represents. Once I could see this, the rest made sense. It's a paradigm shift. God also has a good sense of humor. See why:

John 1

Jesus answered, “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.”

49 Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.”

50 Jesus said, “You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that.” 51 He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man.”

---Nathanael recognized Jesus because he was on the ground under a fig tree. Jesus knew Nathanael for the same reason. Why? Symbolism. Nathanael was a ripe fig that had fallen on the ground. Tuck that away in your mind.

John 2

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.[d] 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

---Many were coming to Jesus for salvation. If faith were the only part of the process, then why did Jesus refuse to entrust himself to them? Simple. They were not ripe fruit. The process is then explained in John 3. You MUST be born again. Baptism requires that you are prepared by the Father (John 6:60-66). Faith requires faithfulness. Just as Yahweh had to walk away from his own desires to rule, he was required to then walk with the Father by doing his will. What is the Father's will? It was the opposite of Yahweh's will to take and be worshiped. The Father's will is simple. Give and receive only. What does a fig tree give? Fruit. What was Nathanael? A ripe fig. When ripe, the fruit falls on new ground, just as Jesus did as Yahweh acknowledging the Father. YOU MUST be born again. Resurrection is the process to make alive again. Involution for the express purpose of evolution (rising to new life). Once we rise in the water by faith, we turn and walk with God. Once we do this, we bear fruit. Jesus was reaching back to God. God is all of us. Involution is a state of inconscience. We forget who we are.

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Who was John the Baptist? ELIJAH!

Malachi 4

5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

You can get this with a simple video from a goofy movie that expressed this clearly. I am my own grandpa. So are you. Who chases after the one being born again, fleeing in the wilderness against the authority of darkness. Watch what he says: "I thought we killed that man?" "Well kill him again!" These truths are everywhere if you see the correct paradigm:



Behind the scenes, we are influenced by messengers that use our art to express the story to us. It' subtle, but easy to follow if you know it is there. Messages are all around us in music, movies, theater, poetry and so on. This is a good example. If you know anything about why the hair was red, you know that the person telling this story knows the back story of how the son came into being. The show 'LOST' also tells the same story. Nearly every Disney story with a prince, princess and queen tells the same. Grimm tells the same. It's everywhere if you know what they are pointing to. Who is the boy in the clip in relation to the one singing and the military general? To know, watch the movie. They call them the stupids.

What was their conclusion? "No power on Earth can stop us now!" They are wrong.

Malachi 4

5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

Yes. You are your own grandpa, father and son. They will raise you after you raise them. God the Father is the same. If you know this, then you know why the Father is the Son.

Matthew 1

"A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham: Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,"

Genesis 38

27 When the time came for her to give birth, there were twin boys in her womb. 28 As she was giving birth, one of them put out his hand; so the midwife took a scarlet thread and tied it on his wrist and said, “This one came out first.” 29 But when he drew back his hand, his brother came out, and she said, “So this is how you have broken out!” And he was named Perez.[a] 30 Then his brother, who had the scarlet thread on his wrist, came out. And he was named Zerah.

Perez means break/branch. Zerah is the rising light.

Genesis 49

‘The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes; and to Him shall be the obedience of the people."

There are earthly kings sitting on this throne and have been there since the beginning. Jeremiah 1:10 "See, I have this day set you over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out and to pull down, to destroy and to throw down, to build and to plant."

LINK

Ezekiel 21

"And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel (Zedekiah), whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, Thus saith the Lord God; 'Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: [This did happen during the first half of Jeremiah's commission.) This (the crown) shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. I will overturn, overturn, and overturn it: and it shall be no more until he comes whose right it is: and I will give it him."

David was Ruddy!

Read the link above.

a reply to: Akragon

God has a left and right hand. Each is valuable to the purpose of bringing both sides together. If a plant grows in a greenhouse, it gets very large and bears lots of fruit, but it is inherently weak. It bends low and breaks by its weight. If a plant grows in a harsh wilderness, as long as the soil is good, it is strong AND bears much fruit. God's right hand is strength and never changes. His left hand allows for change and weakness measured out. This is for a purpose. You are noting the weakness of the Word without realizing why it is there.

The same can be said for most of us, but truth is not going to come by denying the parts that don't seem to fit. Truth comes from knowing how the two hands come together. Eternal punishment to the goats is not devoid of change. If it were, then it would not be eternal change. Rest comes when the change acts on the states of what is changed. God does not change. Entering salvation from change is the death that brings life. True life is not in a state of change. We are in a state of change. We are eternally locked until we find our way out of the process of God's work.

Based on this, are we on the Right or Left right now? Do we change? Yes, then we are in the eternal state of punishment now. It is designed to make the plant strong enough to exit the wilderness and bear fruit above. There is a reason for Yahweh making the plant strong. There is a reason for the work we do to produce food (fruit). The toil happens in a place of change so that we can rest when the barns are full and winter comes.

How does this make Paul a necessity? Yahweh? Satan (adversary)? Without the winds of change, you have no strength. John 3 states that the wind blows you where it wills. Is this the hand of God (Spirit) or the hand of Satan (accuser). What accuses you is the same thing that bends your mast in the wind (heeling the ship). They work in unison.

Strength comes from overcoming the wilderness. To this fact, you are correct. To judge the ones giving you the opportunity, you are incorrect. How is this?

In the book of Job, did Satan reach out his hand against Job, or did he tell God to reach out HIS hand?

Which hand? If you answer correctly, then you know you judge God and not Satan, Paul, Yahweh or any other. It's all for a greater purpose. Forgive your enemies. The only enemy you can have is either yourself or God (or both). Two hands must come together to make the sound of one hand clapping. Everything is is relationship to everything else.

The point is to bring the pendulum to rest. Neutral is neither positive or negative. Male and female come together as one to make the image of God.

Forgive your enemies. God looks in the mirror at you. You look back. Two become one eventually.

I will prove this to you by suggesting a link: WIKI on Sailing. Know what it means to be heeled.

Smooth seas does not a skilled sailor make.

"The wind flowing over the surface of the sail creates a force approximately perpendicular to the sail; the component of that force parallel to the boat's keel pulls the boat forward, the component perpendicular to the keel makes the boat heel and causes leeway."

Sailing the Seas of Moving Emotion

THE LEFTOVERTURE!

a reply to: graphuto

John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Notice that this is addressed to people who already believe in Jesus, who at this point, when this was written, were still in the balance as to whether or not they were going to live on forever from that point.
If you doubt it, look at other translations of the verse, such as the NIV.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Ahh yes, the "Non Inspired Version."

The one that tries to call Jesus Lucifer, and removes most mentions of the word hell, as well as many other doctrinal errors and confusion.

Did you know that when a new translation comes out, due to copyright laws, the work must be at least 4% different from any of the others? Confusion.

a reply to: graphuto

Sorry but I just don't believe that the Bible is merely "just a book...written by men"

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

This verse is about Jesus being the Messiah or not, where it is being argued from the point of view of on the one hand there being prophecy that seemingly was fulfilled by Jesus, and on the other hand, false prophets saying that it wasn't.

a reply to: graphuto

I don't condemn. The Bible does. I simply point that out.


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is saying that the world by default is in a condemnable state.
It isn't about going around condemning people who don't believe in Jesus.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Yes, condemnable state. They need to be informed. I'm not condemning them, they're condemned already, by default. I'm informing them that they need to be saved.

a reply to: graphuto

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Here Paul is quoting from Joel and reinterpreting the verse, where originally "those who call on the Lord" would mean the Jews who worshiped at the temple in Jerusalem.

a reply to: jmdewey60

"Those who call on the Lord" does not mean what you're saying here. Man began calling on the name of the Lord in Genesis. Before any temple, or tabernacle. (Faith)

a reply to: AlephBet

Ahh I see. I was unclear of what you meant.
What are the remaining options?

Don't wanna burst your bubble but i simply must. Jesus is IEUE (Yehweh Sabaoth).