Area 51 Scientist's Deathbed Show & Tell!

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: thepixelpusher

What motivation would someone have to hoax Boyd.

Or anyone, for that matter.

But hoaxes happen all the time.

Read my full quote below, and not your edited version. I say it's quite plausible he WAS hoaxed. You don't need to point that out since the sentences of mine you edited out of my quote already concludes that is a possibility.

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
What motivation would someone have to hoax Boyd. Either to create disinfo and muddy the waters, since they know he's already been public on the subject and want to discredit him for some of the info he released previously or someone pranking him. Both are plausible.

originally posted by: Double_Nought_Spy
Bushman's claims have a lot more working against them than a rubber alien. Exposing the rubber alien is probably the most efficient way to dispatch this hoax, but there are so many problems with the rest of the story that it doesn't hold up to intelligent scrutiny in any way. It isn't just a hoax, but a lame one. I agree, we should let old Boyd rest in peace.

Over and out.

I'd be interested in what Boyd has been discredited for before. Share your facts (not opinions or vague feelings). It might help myself and others understand your skepticism.

Also, it's entirely possible Boyd knew something about the alien presence, but was also fed disinfo to keep his credibility in question. So to dismiss all of Boyd's info might not be wise. Best to sift through all of what he released. It seems he was well placed to have had access to some of the information he claims. Disinfo programs know it's human nature to blindly discredit someone in total if only part of what they say is untrue.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
a reply to: funbox

I mentioned several pages back that any senior scientist should be familiar with Lenz's law, and I assumed people understood that was the experiment I was referring to. See the link for more detail but he's either playing dumb, or is senile, or wasn't a senior scientist, or if he was, he had to be incompetent to not know that very well-known law.

Currents bound inside the atoms of strong magnets can create counter-rotating currents in a copper or aluminum pipe. This is shown by dropping the magnet through the pipe. The descent of the magnet inside the pipe is observably slower than when dropped outside the pipe.

He was clearly just demonstrating that. I didn't hear him make any claims that was demonstrating something extraordinary, but rather an effect that most people are not aware of. The implication may have been that the effect was in somehow related to alien propulsion, we hear a lot about rotating magnetic fields when people that claim knowledge try to offer insight.

I fail to understand how conducting such an experiment on camera negatively impacts his credibility.

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
I wish Springer would elaborate on how he knows this is a hoax. I'm not as familiar with Boyd as he is apparently. Springer may shed some light and end discussions about Boyd's overall credibility.

Springer doesn't know who the original hoaxer was any more than the rest of us do and he admits that Bush may be a gullible victim. But the standard for calling a hoax never has been and never will be when every last person on earth is convinced it's a hoax, because that will never happen. There are still people who believe Billy Meier wasn't a hoaxer yet threads about his fakery end up in the hoax bin.

When the only argument left is "special pleading", a logical fallacy which is about all we have in left this case, when we have people admit that "yes it looks like the toy/prop but it's not the exact same toy/prop" that's not a very good reason to say it's not a hoax based on a similar toy/prop to a high degree of confidence. While we can't be 100% certain the toy/prop wasn't made to look like a real alien, we can't really ever be 100% certain of anything so nothing would ever be called a hoax if that was the standard. Obviously, there are hoaxes, and different people need different levels of evidence before concluding it's a hoax. When you own your site, you get to make the decisions for your site.

I can't say Springer has ever moved anything to the hoax bin I've disagreed with, so I think he's doing a good job.

I'd agree that the alien picture Boyd shares proves nothing. The alien dolls could be replicas of a real alien. The picture could be of a genuine alien, or a replica. He talks about getting these things from sources. Since the debunkers seem to have no trouble finding pictures of replicas of this alien, yet no one can show where you might have actually been able to purchase one, that may lean speculation in the direction that Boyd was yet another victim of Air-force/DIA manipulation and disinformation.

Some of what he shares could be real, most of it could be real, or none of it could be real. There just isn't nearly enough evidence to prove any of those possibilities.

So, sadly, even if there was something real here, he went to his grave having proven nothing to anyone. He seemed to believe what he was sharing, so maybe, at least, he felt a weight lifted from him after releasing the burden of forced secrecy.

Attack the Messenger.

Attack the Message.

Expose the disinformation interwoven amongst the fact in order to discredit it all.

This thread is textbook.

a reply to: thepixelpusher

Okay, be helpful and provide a link to where we can get this toy. It's a nice replica of the alien Boyd is showing in that picture.

I haven't had much official disclosure concerning this little alien since the 1970's. Traveling out west through Idaho I spotted one of the colony landing sites. Someone in the know suggested this little alien was left behind in Mesa Verde which was the location described in the X files series myth arc. During the 1980's a girlfriend who I met while working for a government contractor took an interest in my adventures and told me there was a Florida link. Only one public lead published in a Florida newspaper Nov 9, 1977.

When a UFO lands it leaves artifacts, people see the artifacts and it inspires artists to paint or authors to write books about what they saw. That inspires more people and before long it can get entrained into everything from God-ordained miracles to military school legend.

originally posted by: Totemic
Since the debunkers seem to have no trouble finding pictures of replicas of this alien, yet no one can show where you might have actually been able to purchase one,

Why are you so quick to believe some old guy in a YouTube video with some blurry photos, but not the ATS member that has the doll and says he purchased it from Kmart around 1997?

Are you expecting him to have screen shots of Kmarts website from 1997? I doubt the Kmart website even had an online store in 1997.

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
So to dismiss all of Boyd's info might not be wise. Best to sift through all of what he released. It seems he was well placed to have had access to some of the information he claims

Literally all of his information and photos was second and in some cases third hand!! He admits this right in the video! NONE of it was something he had access to while he was actually under employ or afterwards.

He was fed this stuff for 13 years, which is clear suspect that it is not a hoax - but deliberate, calculated execution... logic would say the 'feeders' intended to make believers believe harder, and skeptics discredit his inventions. Probably to offset his lawsuits.

Sounds more credible than Bob Lazar to say the least

originally posted by: thepixelpusher

So to dismiss all of Boyd's info might not be wise. Best to sift through all of what he released.

You go right ahead. I'll look for nuggets of hidden truth in Galaxy Quest. It's no more of a waste of time, it requires no more suspension of disbelief, the story makes more sense, the acting is actually good, and it's fun!

Good luck!

a reply to: thepixelpusher

I say it's quite plausible he WAS hoaxed.

I would say he was hoaxed or he was in on the hoax. bottom line, it was a hoax. Hoaxes happen all the time. I never hoaxed anyone. I think only mean people hoax. I think my interest in this is fading. What are going to be for Halloween?

originally posted by: Double_Nought_Spy

originally posted by: thepixelpusher

So to dismiss all of Boyd's info might not be wise. Best to sift through all of what he released.

You go right ahead. I'll look for nuggets of hidden truth in Galaxy Quest. It's no more of a waste of time, it requires no more suspension of disbelief, the story makes more sense, the acting is actually good, and it's fun!

Good luck!

Hey, I like Galaxy Quest. I even had some of the "hero" props from the movie including the Thermian Nebulizer ray gun that Tim Allen used.

I did come across this on eBay.

eBay Alien Figure



Looks like this figure is made to look like an X-Files alien. I'll admit that maybe Boyd's photo looks better than this one, but was his photo of a professional movie or TV prop. Maybe X-Files. Do we have any X-Files fans here that can match Boyd's photo against the shows alien props?

This alien figure was used on X-Files as a prop and is 3 foot tall. It's looking like Boyd's photo was likely of the same prop series, but his may have had higher detail for close up shots. Also close up props have more features like moving eyelids, and that might explain the lids in different places on Boyd's photos.

The eBay seller had this to say:

I personally purchased this prop from the property manager of what I recollect was Paramont studios, in LA, when the TV series was discontinued. Unfortunately,they were not issuing certificates of authenticity, at the time. I believe there were 99 such props released "for sale", when the TV series was discontinued. The aliens appeared in, what I believe was, the last episode, and were all found dead on a bridge. The prop is in excellent condition. I was very fortunate to be one of the few, that was able to purchase an excellent example that I've displayed with my flying saucer, and other sci-fi collection. I assure you it's authentic. I hope that I answered your question satisfactorily.

iCollector X-Files Alien Prop Auction



There are 99 made for an episode, but it wasn't for the last episode, so there are quite a few out there. Smaller replica toys likely were made to look like this but may not have been officially licensed and that explains why so many don't have company names on it. Either a full sized prop or a knockoff toy.

Still looking through the X-Files episodes to see which one it was in. No luck so far. X-Files fans please help identify the episode.

I still can't conclude Boyd's alien was definitively an X-Files TV prop without studying the episode in question.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: thepixelpusher

I say it's quite plausible he WAS hoaxed.

I would say he was hoaxed or he was in on the hoax. bottom line, it was a hoax. Hoaxes happen all the time. I never hoaxed anyone. I think only mean people hoax. I think my interest in this is fading. What are going to be for Halloween?

I've hoaxed family and friends and I don't consider myself mean. Maybe a slight evil streak.

Spent the better part of a month working a hoax on a fellow engineer about the existence of whales in lake Michigan. This was pre-interweb, so it took a lot of creative Xerox work. The payoff was when I heard back from someone that he was sharing the revelation with others as truth. That's when I told him.

a reply to: draknoir2

my ex (when she wasn't my ex) once asked me what happened to the Hindenburg as in she had no clue that it blew up. I told her that it had too much helium in it and drifted off into outer space and was never seen again. She bought it! but I couldn't keep it going because I couldn't help laughing. She has a phd. Does that qualify as a senior scientist?

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: draknoir2

my ex (when she wasn't my ex) once asked me what happened to the Hindenburg as in she had no clue that it blew up. I told her that it had too much helium in it and drifted off into outer space and was never seen again. She bought it! but I couldn't keep it going because I couldn't help laughing. She has a phd. Does that qualify as a senior scientist?

It might just.


Academic achievement and gullibility are not mutually exclusive.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian


Several years back my son brought up the subject of UFO's and Aliens. He was convinced that all the photos were genuine proof. I explained to him that a good many were hoaxes, but he didn't buy that. How could they hoax UFO's in old photos before they had CGI?

So as a lesson I arranged a demonstration of just how easy it is to stage a hoax and get people to believe it. The next day, without his knowledge I borrowed a unique-looking paperweight the floor supervisor at work had prominently displayed on his desk. I took it home and attached it to a rod and reel, took my son into the back yard, and had him "fly" it while I took photos. The next morning I returned it to its place on the supervisor's desk before he had noticed it was gone. When he came in I asked him about the paperweight - where he got it and how long it had been on his desk.

The next day I told him about our back yard "sighting" and he was skeptical, but interested. I shared some select photos with him, kept my poker face, and he was convinced... as were my parents and friends. I showed the email responses to my son and lesson learned.

Won't post the photos here for obvious reasons, but if you google "Star shaped UFO" they should be among the first images that come up.

Oddly enough I tried them out on my least skeptical of friends [hard core CT'er] and he didn't buy it, though he had no idea what the object was.

I give credit to YouTube user Soopah for leading me to the following picture:

oi60.tinypic.com...

The image clearly shows the alleged alien to be nothing more than a toy.

As much as I'd like to believe the old guy, the man does seem to have difficulty expressing his ideas using the language of a true scientist. In my opinion he has been solicited and unwittingly manipulated by predatory high-tech hoaxters.

originally posted by: prodiffenon
I give credit to YouTube user Soopah for leading me to the following picture:

oi60.tinypic.com...
.

Interesting tag on that pic...

a reply to: draknoir2

That's pretty good. When I first learned of the iPad app to insert UFOs into any picture, I was doing it constantly. I remember passing one around at a family get together. You can make them look pretty good. My brother, the skeptic, said it was just a balloon!